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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by NaaBcAke View Post
    This is as it shoud be, in my guild we got only 2 so far, and they were spend on tanks upgrading boe ring?
    No wonder why DKs wanna gquit, so i pretty much said goodbye to hc aparatus this tier :/

    WAIT...what?

    Ok im not in a hardcore guild,
    but is it really that better to upgrade some lame rings, instead of DK weapons or dps trinkets...??

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loop View Post
    WAIT...what?

    Ok im not in a hardcore guild,
    but is it really that better to upgrade some lame rings, instead of DK weapons or dps trinkets...??
    Nope his guildies are lootwhores :P

  3. #203
    since all out secondary stats effect censure damg except mastery have the trinket ranks changed at all?

  4. #204
    To any moderator, this should be sticky for current t12 content for sure, math on 1st post is spot on, and could help alot of ppl not open always new topic about trinkets, thanks
    Last edited by pedjaland; 2011-09-17 at 05:25 PM.
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  5. #205
    I apologize beforehand if this has been already discussed.
    I will leave Heroic versions of Trinkets out of this, since I'm not in a guild that advanced (although logically, my question is valid even for the two BiS heroic trinkets - VoA hc and AoK hc).
    So, VoA and AoK (with mastery) are supposedly our BiS (be it heroic or normal ones). VoA even works in synergy, building up crit to make AoK get the 5-stack up faster. The trouble I see is this: Having full build-up from VoA [5*77 (*87 at hc) crit] when blowing AoK ---> Will this not take crit up as our best stat and "drop" our AoK trinket down the list below EotEF/HoR/even IoY??
    We already know that AoK is valid as a BiS trinket when it procs for mastery and NOT crit. If I'm not mistaken there were a couple of earlier posts on that, regarding Dwyer's Caber having the same trouble (Nice synergistic effect while procced to build up 5 stacks at AoK, but having to cancel crit-"Pumped up" buff (???) before blowing AoK, so that you'll benefit from mastery and NOT crit).
    Could there be a similar problem with VoA, or is the -lower than DC's proc- crit build-up buff of VoA not affecting the mastery proc from AoK??

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nevyn75 View Post
    I apologize beforehand if this has been already discussed.
    I will leave Heroic versions of Trinkets out of this, since I'm not in a guild that advanced (although logically, my question is valid even for the two BiS heroic trinkets - VoA hc and AoK hc).
    So, VoA and AoK (with mastery) are supposedly our BiS (be it heroic or normal ones). VoA even works in synergy, building up crit to make AoK get the 5-stack up faster. The trouble I see is this: Having full build-up from VoA [5*77 (*87 at hc) crit] when blowing AoK ---> Will this not take crit up as our best stat and "drop" our AoK trinket down the list below EotEF/HoR/even IoY??
    We already know that AoK is valid as a BiS trinket when it procs for mastery and NOT crit. If I'm not mistaken there were a couple of earlier posts on that, regarding Dwyer's Caber having the same trouble (Nice synergistic effect while procced to build up 5 stacks at AoK, but having to cancel crit-"Pumped up" buff (???) before blowing AoK, so that you'll benefit from mastery and NOT crit).
    Could there be a similar problem with VoA, or is the -lower than DC's proc- crit build-up buff of VoA not affecting the mastery proc from AoK??
    I'm pretty sure the vessel proc is counted in BiS lists, it's partly why we use the tank belt in them.

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevyn75 View Post
    <snip>
    or you just reforge any crit to haste that would take your crit to be higher than mastery after it's stacked.
    since haste/crit are more equal these days it's probably the best way to go.

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevyn75 View Post
    Having full build-up from VoA [5*77 (*87 at hc) crit] when blowing AoK ---> Will this not take crit up as our best stat and "drop" our AoK trinket down the list below EotEF/HoR/even IoY??
    1. There is two versions of AoK in the first post for every difficulty level, and for a reason.

    2. H:AoK proccing Crit will not drop it below IoY, it's not possible - the weight difference between Crit and Mastery is not that large.

    3. It's up to the player to ensure that you are using AoK to full extent and proccing Mastery from it. Yes, Vessel affects your Crit rating, obviously. All of us account for it before doing reforging.

  9. #209
    I'm trying to figure out which trinket i should use with 2 pcs T12, I've apparatus and i will keep it but 2nd choice is not clear because I i read this topic I would use IoY but when I've checked my gear with Mr Robot the trinket to use is LtS .. so i dont know..

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevyn75 View Post
    I apologize beforehand if this has been already discussed.
    So, VoA and AoK (with mastery) are supposedly our BiS (be it heroic or normal ones). VoA even works in synergy, building up crit to make AoK get the 5-stack up faster. The trouble I see is this: Having full build-up from VoA [5*77 (*87 at hc) crit] when blowing AoK ---> Will this not take crit up as our best stat and "drop" our AoK trinket down the list below EotEF/HoR/even IoY??
    We already know that AoK is valid as a BiS trinket when it procs for mastery and NOT crit. If I'm not mistaken there were a couple of earlier posts on that, regarding Dwyer's Caber having the same trouble (Nice synergistic effect while procced to build up 5 stacks at AoK, but having to cancel crit-"Pumped up" buff (???) before blowing AoK, so that you'll benefit from mastery and NOT crit).
    Could there be a similar problem with VoA, or is the -lower than DC's proc- crit build-up buff of VoA not affecting the mastery proc from AoK??
    I got VoA recently have and normal AoK and had to mess around with reforges and swapping some gear to stack mastery more to make AoK to use mastery instead of crit. Even when I had 5 stacks on VoA, getting ~13.5% crit with mastery at 17.5%, it would grant crit (solo dummy testing). It was only when I pushed mastery beyond 18% (I'm sitting at 19.7% now) that AoK started using mastery again.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Goosie View Post
    I got VoA recently have and normal AoK and had to mess around with reforges and swapping some gear to stack mastery more to make AoK to use mastery instead of crit. Even when I had 5 stacks on VoA, getting ~13.5% crit with mastery at 17.5%, it would grant crit (solo dummy testing). It was only when I pushed mastery beyond 18% (I'm sitting at 19.7% now) that AoK started using mastery again.
    You don't have to guess it. Mouse hover your percentages and see your actual ratings for Mastery and Crit.
    To proc mastery it should be > Crit + 410 from VoA. Say, 1950 > 1526 + 410.

  12. #212
    Is the new Brewfest 4000 ap proc trinket better than Dwyer's Caber? If I reforge the crit to mastery it seems appealing, but is it worth dropping 340 str for a proc?

  13. #213
    So how does the Brewfest trinket stack up against the rest?

  14. #214
    anyone worked out the crit/ap trinkets proc rate and icd as without those we can't get a sim of the rating, i would have thought with it's duration and what i can remember from the wrath one it's got an icd of 1 minute and due to the fact it's 4k ap up for 10 seconds then down for 45, it's up for 10/45 giving it an equivalent passive ap of 889 + 204 crit + 136 mastery. with those stats and using the front page estimations formaula wit these weights (SimCraft): Str 2.77, Mastery 1.78, Crit 1.50, Haste 1.16

    "Calculation format is always value*[uptime]*weight*coeff, so you can decode it quite easily."

    so 4000*10/45*[weight for ap]*[coeff for ap] + 204*1.5*1.15+136*1.78*1.15 = 889*[weight for ap]*[coeff for ap] + 630.3

    unfortunately i can't do simcraft for weights at work and i have probably copied workings from front page incorrectly.

    however looking forward to where it ranks as i would guess it's the thing to replace your heart of rage for if your not using it's expertise as if you only need 136 of your hearts expertise this 4k ap proc may be superior to the stre proc from rage(normal).

  15. #215
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepy67 View Post
    So how does the Brewfest trinket stack up against the rest?
    Don't quote me on this but I believe the Coaster would be the following, It's a great trinket if the ICD is 50 seconds. I'm not exactly sure the AP weight but I'm going to assume around half that of the strength value. It's being reported to have a 50 sec ICD which ilevel 365 falls in like with the Caber we just get a little more out of the AP than crit.

    340*1.50*1.15 + 4000*10/50*1.385*1.14 = 1849.62
    Last edited by Requital; 2011-09-20 at 03:29 PM.
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  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by Requital View Post
    Don't quote me on this but I believe the Coaster would be the following, It's a great trinket if the ICD is 50 seconds.

    340*1.50*1.15 + 4000*10/50*1.385*1.14 = 1849.62
    o good you have weights

    but wouldn't it be

    204*1.50*1.15 + 136*1.78*1.15 + 4000*10/50*1.385*1.14 = 1893.41

    assuming you reforge the crit into mastery?

  17. #217
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Yes I forgot about reforging so ya it's a solid trinket. I'm not 100% sure about the AP coeff being 1.14 mainly because I don't have real values for AP until a simcraft finishes running. I think they are going to be more around the 1.20 mark but I'll find out soon enough.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Can you imagine if someone insulted you in a thread, you reported it, and I told you "sorry, wrong thread to be butthurt"?

  18. #218
    I think you might be overvaluing Essence a bit, it might be good in a patchwerk-fight, but in Firelands its 1min cooldown and fight-mechanics really hinder its effectiveness. After using it for a few weeks, I've noticed that it's really hard to use it on cooldown effectively in fights like Alys if it comes out during Tornadoes, in Beth if it comes out while youre in ground (assuming you are assigned upstairs), in Majordomo if it comes out during cats. in Shannox if youre running after or away either of the dogs or in Raggy if it comes out during transition.

    Worst case scenario you either don't use it at all or risk having to push back AW/Zeal for it to come out of cooldown. I switched back to LtS and got a DPS boost immediately out of it simply because I am able to utilize it to full. IoY didn't have the same problem to this degree because it's CD lined up perfectly with AW/Zeal.

  19. #219
    I'm kind of busy with Rag during the week, but at Thursday or Friday I will have time to crunch numbers for new trinket.

  20. #220
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    Worst case scenario you either don't use it at all or risk having to push back AW/Zeal for it to come out of cooldown. I switched back to LtS and got a DPS boost immediately out of it simply because I am able to utilize it to full. IoY didn't have the same problem to this degree because it's CD lined up perfectly with AW/Zeal.
    Use it when its intermediate cooldown comes up, even if you're not hitting something. It lasts 15s. There's no reason to ignore it when the CD comes up between your other CDs.

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