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  1. #241
    depends on your priorities i guess. You're not really bringing a survival hunter to progression raids for their single target dps amirite ;D?

    Still, I've found that since I'm ranged I've always taken close to the least amount of damage for every fight (unless I'm soaking something) and the 10% hp: it would only be worth it if you had some kind of % healing on you and the only spec that has that baseline is BM.

    10% more stamina otherwise is completely useless since you shouldn't be dropping below 10% hp anyway.

  2. #242
    High Overlord Donkeywing's Avatar
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    Haha, well overall I just like having 10% more health over the entire course of a fight than a hunter beside me that has 6% crit on frost trap.. Also there are very tight situations where 10% hp is usefull, like ultraxion or deathwing. Also, even if you don't fall below 10% hp on a fight it still can be less ''stressfull'' (or helpful) for healers. Imagine 6 hunters in a 10m raid all specced in 10% more hp, or specced in 6% frost trap crit. Then suddenly the choice is easy to make. (especially cause you rarely use frost trap even)

    BTW nice guildname
    Last edited by Donkeywing; 2011-12-28 at 11:20 PM.

  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by Illana View Post
    depends on your priorities i guess. You're not really bringing a survival hunter to progression raids for their single target dps amirite ;D?

    Still, I've found that since I'm ranged I've always taken close to the least amount of damage for every fight (unless I'm soaking something) and the 10% hp: it would only be worth it if you had some kind of % healing on you and the only spec that has that baseline is BM.

    10% more stamina otherwise is completely useless since you shouldn't be dropping below 10% hp anyway.
    You're right, it's useless for normals, but it's pretty much required on Heroic Morchok to survive the stomp+crystal, and it's obviously useful on the rest since most, if not all the top Hunters who are 4-5+/8H are using 2/3 in the talent.

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by Hayro1 View Post
    You're right, it's useless for normals, but it's pretty much required on Heroic Morchok to survive the stomp+crystal, and it's obviously useful on the rest since most, if not all the top Hunters who are 4-5+/8H are using 2/3 in the talent.
    I use the stamina talent because the other options such as entrapment and point of no escape are close to completely useless (very slightly useful for adds on Yorshaj maybe if they aren't immune... not checked) and there are times where you will go very low on health and that 10% sta would save you from a death. It's just more useful than anything else that you can take in my opinion.

  5. #245
    High Overlord Donkeywing's Avatar
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    Exactly, point being: In the current raid instance the given talentchoice is pretty much outdated.

  6. #246
    Hi, I have a quick question. Is it worth putting 2/2 in Wild Hunt over 1/2 in both WH and SA? for SV of course.

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by Michaeltt View Post
    Hi, I have a quick question. Is it worth putting 2/2 in Wild Hunt over 1/2 in both WH and SA? for SV of course.
    Ohhh yes, need to update this part.

    If you're in current raid gear (lfr or higher) then it's absolutely a DPS increase for 2/2 WH.

    Also: I've never found myself thinking "damn if I had 10% more stamina we would have downed that boss".

    If I'm that low already then other people have already died in most cases, I'm not sure how much hp you guys have fully buffed in raid gear but I'm sitting at 150k and that's plenty for every heroic encounter.

    Also if you're soaking stomps on morchok hc then the rest of your melee or your healers are severely undergeared or you're just doing it wrong.

    When you have enough hp to survive all unavoidable damage then you have enough hp and nothing in this raid tier does more than 150k hp to a non-tank within 3 seconds.

    PoNE helps especially during madness when bursting the blood down is essential and also looking at the heroic madness kill videos there is even more AoE.

    It will help on hc spine too because of the sheer number of bloods if you decide to kill them and ofc yor'sahj on black phases: the quicker those go down the better.
    Last edited by Illana; 2011-12-29 at 05:18 PM.

  8. #248
    Thanks for the guide! Glad to be raiding in SV once more!

  9. #249
    Just swapped over to SV after playing MM all through Cata until now

  10. #250
    Hey guys I know this is a bit OT, but im having dps issues. I tried some madness tonight and was only pulling a steady 40k dps, but just barely reaching over 40k. I feel like I should atleast be 3k higher... any suggestions?

    I cant post my armory cause im new here but its Eatshot - US - Illidan

  11. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by Michaeltt View Post
    Hey guys I know this is a bit OT, but im having dps issues. I tried some madness tonight and was only pulling a steady 40k dps, but just barely reaching over 40k. I feel like I should atleast be 3k higher... any suggestions?

    I cant post my armory cause im new here but its Eatshot - US - Illidan
    make a few more posts and then head over to the "fix my dps" thread

  12. #252
    Pandaren Monk Hinalover's Avatar
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    Quick question about Haste thresholds. I'm wondering why you suggest 1.5 second haste as a viable haste threshold. Yes it will allow for 4 CS casts between each ES, but you will have a 1 second GCD issue that will delay your ES. Wouldn't the next haste threshold be 41.5% haste, where it will bring your CS down to 1.25 seconds, allowing for 4 casts of CS and a 1 second GCD between each ES?

  13. #253
    Herald of the Titans Joyful's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hinalover View Post
    Quick question about Haste thresholds. I'm wondering why you suggest 1.5 second haste as a viable haste threshold. Yes it will allow for 4 CS casts between each ES, but you will have a 1 second GCD issue that will delay your ES. Wouldn't the next haste threshold be 41.5% haste, where it will bring your CS down to 1.25 seconds, allowing for 4 casts of CS and a 1 second GCD between each ES?
    Have you factored in AS?

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by Hinalover View Post
    Quick question about Haste thresholds. I'm wondering why you suggest 1.5 second haste as a viable haste threshold. Yes it will allow for 4 CS casts between each ES, but you will have a 1 second GCD issue that will delay your ES. Wouldn't the next haste threshold be 41.5% haste, where it will bring your CS down to 1.25 seconds, allowing for 4 casts of CS and a 1 second GCD between each ES?
    1.5 CS casts is for people with 2set t13 ONLY and it maintains focus positive at 2CS 2AS between each ES

    1.5+1.5+1+1=5

  15. #255
    High Overlord Donkeywing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Illana View Post
    Ohhh yes, need to update this part.

    If you're in current raid gear (lfr or higher) then it's absolutely a DPS increase for 2/2 WH.

    Also: I've never found myself thinking "damn if I had 10% more stamina we would have downed that boss".

    If I'm that low already then other people have already died in most cases, I'm not sure how much hp you guys have fully buffed in raid gear but I'm sitting at 150k and that's plenty for every heroic encounter.

    Also if you're soaking stomps on morchok hc then the rest of your melee or your healers are severely undergeared or you're just doing it wrong.

    When you have enough hp to survive all unavoidable damage then you have enough hp and nothing in this raid tier does more than 150k hp to a non-tank within 3 seconds.

    PoNE helps especially during madness when bursting the blood down is essential and also looking at the heroic madness kill videos there is even more AoE.

    It will help on hc spine too because of the sheer number of bloods if you decide to kill them and ofc yor'sahj on black phases: the quicker those go down the better.
    *Some* arguments here are just invalid; saying 10% more sta didnt down the boss works both ways, I don't think someone will ever down a boss because of 6% frost trap crit. Also just because you didn't die because of high dmg, doesnt mean there is an ''enough amount'' of health you can have, the more hp the better. When we have shitty ooze combos on yorsahj I'm happy with that 15k health.
    Also because of how spine HEROIC works, you will never skip the hunter vs wild talent if you got brains, but then again there are near-zero hunters on that fight so not worth mentioning

    You can also *roughly* say 10% stamina is a 10% dmg taken decrease, because you can take 10% more dmg. Given has a 100% ''uptime'' on ALL bosses in DS, it has much greater potential than on the few bosses PoNE actually could be a viable dps increase for a couple of seconds. There are just 3 bosses in DS it can actually be used, and the effectiveness is highly doubted.

    Like said before, the adds on MoD normal are pretty much non-issue and can be bursted down in 5 seconds. Wasting a GCD for it PLUS the possiblity they wont be tanked on the frost trap for just 6% crit, makes it not a better choice over 10% stamina, which is a huge boost for the final few %s when corrupting blood dmg is insane. On yorsahj and spine it might be a viable dps increase, but then again yorsahj heroic it is not worth wasting a GCD on the boss for (if not trap lauched, wasting 2-3 GCDs for frost trap is pretty much LOL on that fight). Besides it is not just some GCDs you lose, but managing focus + ES for the incoming AoE while placing a trap makes you probably lose a significant amout of ''bossdps''.

    Because of the very few situations you actually *might* get a benefit out of this talent, where as hunter vs wild is passive, makes it just a bad choice to spec into it. Besides, did you ever truely see a hunter using frost trap in DS apart from yourself?


    Also on your 1.5s cobra shot comment, that doesnt always work if you use BA and thrill of the hunt doesnt proc. And like you said sacrificing crit for it is probably not worth it.
    Last edited by Donkeywing; 2012-01-01 at 09:57 AM.

  16. #256

  17. #257
    For heroic progress, it's very viable to place points into hunt vs wild, like someone said above, in a lot of cases 10% stamina can make or break the kill. I can't count how many times a bit more hp would have kept me alive a bit longer to do somewhat more dmg and avoid that low % wipe.

    As for the adds on madness, you don't really need to spec into any spells that can increase your aoe effectiveness, unless you don't have any classes that are capable to burst them down within +- 5s. If you want to be affective, place your traps before they spawn (close to the claw, so it takes dmg aswell), and get focused capped shortly before they spawn and hit them a few times (with multishot and do some arcane shots when they are below 30%). If you have the luxury of a 25m raid, they'll die so fast that your 'Point of no escape' talent point won't even be viable.
    Last edited by belgicanofl; 2012-01-02 at 12:59 AM.

  18. #258
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    Nice guide! Although the reforging guide is a bit off. It doesnt mention reforging to haste.
    Last edited by Mithrildar; 2012-01-02 at 04:27 PM.

  19. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by Mithrildar View Post
    Nice guide! Although the reforging guide is a bit off. It doesnt mention reforging to haste.
    You don't want to reforge to haste as long as you have the 2 set t13 anyway.

  20. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    You don't want to reforge to haste as long as you have the 2 set t13 anyway.
    I didnt know that, ill change it asap, thanks

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