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  1. #501
    Numbers? No. Common sense though...

    Mastery affects: Explosive Shot, Black Arrow, Arcane Shot, Cobra Shot, Serpent Sting

    Haste affects: Cobra Shot

  2. #502
    High Overlord Mr.Pineapple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hound02 View Post
    What is the Haste Cap in %? Is it worth attempting to reach it in ilvl average of 470?

    Also would you say MoC is better then LR when it comes to dps in general heroics and raids? If so, how much would you say the increase is by?


    I would also really appreciate to have some 'rough' rotation ideas for when it comes to aoe and single target, so I can compare mine to it and see where I'm going wrong (doing 30-40k single target dps in 5-man heroics *no food/flask/elixirs/pots buffs, just normal group buffs* in 463 average ilvl gear).

    Also that was without the blastington's scope, I previously had the crit chance scope. I've just got the blastington's and attached to my bow, however, I have not tried using it yet! Would this give me a big dps boost?


    Very sorry for my nooby questions, but I'm trying to improve and will greatly appreciate your time in reading and hopefully answering these for me
    haste caps are almost entirely irrelevant now/ they are such soft caps now with the new way that ExS works that it won't matter if you're not doing heroic progression.

    MoC is better than Lynx Rush for most fights, if you are a casual player, MoC is fine for all of MSV and HoF. the only fight you will want to change it for is Lei Shi. progression raiders may find Lynx Rush useful for other fights where the burst is needed, or phases are being transitioned in odd ways.

    Rotation wise, there is no real rotation, mostly just a shot priority system, outside of CD's you want to go for Glaive Toss> Black Arrow > Explosive Shot >Arcane shot, while maintaining your serpent sting, dire beast and other cd's when useful. for two or more mobs, replace arcane shot with multi shot, and for 4+ adds, replace everything but glaive toss with mutlishot, and use an explosive trap instead. (don't take this as absolute cannon, it's not, and there is some nuance depending on if there is a large add, or different adds that need to die first, etc, etc, etc.) but it will get you through most encounters with good dps. ensure your glaive toss is hitting maximum targets and you'll be fine.

    Blastingtons is better by a HUGE margin. there's no comparison.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    For my own personal question, i've been keeping up on several forums and this seems to be the only one i can find that is Quoting C>M>H, rather than C>H>M. does anyone have a link to the theory crafting on this? i've run my own sims on my own caracter and several other characters/players that i know have similar skill levels with various reforges and still conclude that haste is better than mastery at my current gear level (489) with a 471 wep. as well as all gear levels except BiS. does this change at different/higher gear/haste levels?

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-12 at 09:51 PM ----------

    to the dude above me:
    Haste affects focus regen, which is very significant. as well as the GCD, which is very very very significant. since all of our spells are affected by GCD (nearly everything but pets and cobra shot) or directly by haste (cobra shot/pets to a small degree) AND not all of our spells are affected by mastery (auto/KS/pets), this is where the argument occurs, the other important factor is that it does not take the same amount of rating to get 1% haste, as it does to get 1% mastery.

    common sense works, if the knowledge is common.
    Last edited by Mr.Pineapple; 2013-02-14 at 12:44 AM.
    Ask yourself a question: 'How have I made the world a better place today?'.

    If your answer isn't legitimate, or meaningful: TRY HARDER - YOU ARE FAILING AT RL!

    You are the product of 200 million years of evolution. Act Like It!

  3. #503
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Pineapple View Post
    For my own personal question, i've been keeping up on several forums and this seems to be the only one i can find that is Quoting C>M>H, rather than C>H>M. does anyone have a link to the theory crafting on this? i've run my own sims on my own caracter and several other characters/players that i know have similar skill levels with various reforges and still conclude that haste is better than mastery at my current gear level (489) with a 471 wep. as well as all gear levels except BiS. does this change at different/higher gear/haste levels?
    Yeah this is what I was asking, would love some math on it since Noxxic and other sites are pushing haste>mastery.

  4. #504
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Pineapple View Post
    haste caps are almost entirely irrelevant now/ they are such soft caps now with the new way that ExS works that it won't matter if you're not doing heroic progression.

    MoC is better than Lynx Rush for most fights, if you are a casual player, MoC is fine for all of MSV and HoF. the only fight you will want to change it for is Lei Shi. progression raiders may find Lynx Rush useful for other fights where the burst is needed, or phases are being transitioned in odd ways.

    Rotation wise, there is no real rotation, mostly just a shot priority system, outside of CD's you want to go for Glaive Toss> Black Arrow > Explosive Shot >Arcane shot, while maintaining your serpent sting, dire beast and other cd's when useful. for two or more mobs, replace arcane shot with multi shot, and for 4+ adds, replace everything but glaive toss with mutlishot, and use an explosive trap instead. (don't take this as absolute cannon, it's not, and there is some nuance depending on if there is a large add, or different adds that need to die first, etc, etc, etc.) but it will get you through most encounters with good dps. ensure your glaive toss is hitting maximum targets and you'll be fine.

    Blastingtons is better by a HUGE margin. there's no comparison.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    For my own personal question, i've been keeping up on several forums and this seems to be the only one i can find that is Quoting C>M>H, rather than C>H>M. does anyone have a link to the theory crafting on this? i've run my own sims on my own caracter and several other characters/players that i know have similar skill levels with various reforges and still conclude that haste is better than mastery at my current gear level (489) with a 471 wep. as well as all gear levels except BiS. does this change at different/higher gear/haste levels?

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-12 at 09:51 PM ----------

    to the dude above me:
    Haste affects focus regen, which is very significant. as well as the GCD, which is very very very significant. since all of our spells are affected by GCD (nearly everything but pets and cobra shot) or directly by haste (cobra shot/pets to a small degree) AND not all of our spells are affected by mastery (auto/KS/pets), this is where the argument occurs, the other important factor is that it does not take the same amount of rating to get 1% haste, as it does to get 1% mastery.

    common sense works, if the knowledge is common.
    Couple notes.

    Haste is a fickle stat. It's value is almost impossible to determine, yet in most cases it is overvalued rather than undervalued. This is true for both Femaledwarf and Simulationcraft.

    The current priority is Crit > Mastery > Haste. Has does not effect our GCD at all (It's always 1 second).

    Quote Originally Posted by Luciferiuz View Post
    Yeah this is what I was asking, would love some math on it since Noxxic and other sites are pushing haste>mastery.
    Many of the sites for hunters are extremely outdated (Noxxic for example) and are a terrible resource for factual information. It can give you a rough idea, but don't rely on it entirely.

  5. #505
    Quote Originally Posted by Arktem View Post
    Many of the sites for hunters are extremely outdated (Noxxic for example) and are a terrible resource for factual information. It can give you a rough idea, but don't rely on it entirely.
    Not to be unnecessarily confrontational but what part of me referencing other sites and asking for sims and data to corroborate whether or not mastery>haste priority was correct gave you the impression I was relying on Noxxic entirely? :P

  6. #506
    Will this neat guide be updated to 5.2 changes?

  7. #507
    Don't have alot of time right now as heavy progress is starting. Maybe I can get it done little by little, but nothing immidiate, and haven't started on it yet.

  8. #508
    High Overlord Mr.Pineapple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arktem View Post
    Couple notes.

    Haste is a fickle stat. It's value is almost impossible to determine, yet in most cases it is overvalued rather than undervalued. This is true for both Femaledwarf and Simulationcraft.

    The current priority is Crit > Mastery > Haste. Has does not effect our GCD at all (It's always 1 second).
    wow. that was a silly mistake. my bad. you're right. i'm still not convinced that mastery is better than haste though. you have convinced me that 1% mastery IS better than 1% haste, but the actual rating value to achieve 1% of either is still too different to rely on my rough napkin math (i have them almost on par now). do you have a source with theory-crafting?[COLOR="red"]
    Last edited by Mr.Pineapple; 2013-03-22 at 08:53 AM.
    Ask yourself a question: 'How have I made the world a better place today?'.

    If your answer isn't legitimate, or meaningful: TRY HARDER - YOU ARE FAILING AT RL!

    You are the product of 200 million years of evolution. Act Like It!

  9. #509
    Due to RPPM, it is now Crit>Haste>Mastery for all specs.

  10. #510
    Very Nice Guide

  11. #511
    Really wish i cared enough about this game to play it and update this XD

  12. #512
    Hey it's updated, say whaaaaaaaaat

  13. #513
    So you care again illana?

  14. #514
    i do!

    /10char

  15. #515
    a lot of work for this giude good job !

  16. #516
    ok im obv missing something here but i just tried the first macro = #showtooltip /cast Arcane Shot /use 10 - and afaik its not making any difference to the keys i have to make except for my arcane shot/multishot which both become highlighted - this macro doesnt seem to b saving me any icons but as i said - im obv missing something here but cant see it

  17. #517
    The Lightbringer Joyful's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by btf View Post
    ok im obv missing something here but i just tried the first macro = #showtooltip /cast Arcane Shot /use 10 - and afaik its not making any difference to the keys i have to make except for my arcane shot/multishot which both become highlighted - this macro doesnt seem to b saving me any icons but as i said - im obv missing something here but cant see it
    What is it you want the macro to do?

  18. #518
    Quote Originally Posted by btf View Post
    ok im obv missing something here but i just tried the first macro = #showtooltip /cast Arcane Shot /use 10 - and afaik its not making any difference to the keys i have to make except for my arcane shot/multishot which both become highlighted - this macro doesnt seem to b saving me any icons but as i said - im obv missing something here but cant see it
    the macro is to cast arcane shot and activate synapse springs if you're an engineer

  19. #519
    Legendary! TJ's Avatar
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    So, BA is supposed to be higher than ES even if LNL is on cd? You would interrupt spamming ES during LNL do reapply BA?

  20. #520
    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    So, BA is supposed to be higher than ES even if LNL is on cd? You would interrupt spamming ES during LNL do reapply BA?
    I do since you can proc another stack of LnL while you are spamming, keeping the chain going.

    Plus it's higher DPET than ES anyway

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