Old Raids As New Dungeons

[DSRilk]

Sadly, most old raids just sit there. I don't usually have time to raid, so I don't get to see that content until an expansion or two afterward when I can solo or duo it. I have a great time doing this, and am plenty happy with it. That said, it seems to me that Blizz may be missing a quick and easy way to create "new" content for the many, many people who don't raid or who aren't able to complete a full clear. Turn the old raids into dungeons.

I don't mean take resources to modify or tweak content. Leave the content exactly as is. I mean just come up with the a rule that limits the raid size based on the highest level character in the party. An example is given below. (Note, the numbers below are just made up to be an example; real values would probably need to be tweaked.)

Blizz could then also make a multiplier for the stats to make item drops the equivalent of the appropriate level dungeon blues, give or take, just like they do when they upgrade holiday gear. This would reinvigorate old content, add leveling options (or for some people, end game options), and allow people to get items with old skins they love that are useful at higher levels, but that don't compete with new stuff from the current expansion.

Raid level is the original level the raid was designed for.
Party level is the highest level of the person in the party. This is also the char level the items would be tuned to.
Party size is the new max number of party members allowed in the instance.

RAID LEVEL	PARTY LEVEL	PARTY SIZE
60	80+	2
60	70+	5
70	85+	2
70	80+	5
80	85+	5

It just seems like very little work for a lot of gain. Thoughts?

[Keosen]

Can you even imagine the amount of whining about "recycled content" will emerge from this?

[Pachycrocuta]

I would have to disagree with a few of what you said. Some raids cannot be duo'd or such. Some fights still require more than 2 people, even at level 85. It's just the mechanics of the fights. And I agree with Keosen. The obscene amount of QQ from ZA and ZG being upgraded, people QQd because of Deadmines and SFK. People QQd about Onyxia going to 80. Hell, people QQd about Onyxia and Nefarian being the end bosses of BWD, saying Blizz was lazy for recycling bosses. People QQd about Ragnaros being the end boss of Firelands. People QQd about Baron Geddon showing up in Hyjal during that one quest. People QQd about Garr being a rarespawn with a few million health in Hyjal zone.

Personally, I don't want the old raids to become dungeons. I like them the way they are. My guild has started up our "retro raids" again, going through these raids for achievements, rep, patterns, old tier gear for the hell of it, and even gearing up level 60 or 70 characters, or level 80 characters as well. I don't want to hear the shitstorm this would cause for the people on this forum or the official forum if they used the old raids. It's bad enough when they reuse a boss (ragnaros, nefarian, onyxia, baron geddon, garr).

[Deleted]

I actualy enjoyed having a second chance to run ZG I did it at 60 enjoyed it then and I may be one of the few who still enjoy it now, I never did ZA at 70 but soloed it since and I like having to now do it in a group so you actualy need to use the tactics and its a challenge, sometimes. I do try and solo quite a few raids when I'm bored but i would prefer to do it as a five man if possible, BWL as a five man heroic would be hard to get into the lore now but would be fun and due to the first bosses mechanics isn't possible to solo.

Now the expansions been around for the bit I've done most of the heroics that are around a lot and would really welcome some more into the selection, which hopefully wouldnt take that much work from Blizzard although they would get slated for doing it by the vocal minority I think the majority would appreciate it.

I'm almost anticipating the AQ's making a comeback somehow as a few changes have been made in that area and they would be a lot of fun

edit : something I was going to comment on and didnt, I only mentioned bringing them back as heroics as I'm not that keen on your duoing dungeon scenario as what would you need? - it would surely be a lot harder to do a two man dungeon with certain classes than others two mages might struggle if they cant burst something down where as a tank and healer or healer and plate dps would probably be able to ace it nine times out of ten

[Resentful]

Well as much as I would like to agree with you but

The community really doesn't like re-hashed stuff, and again would be an uprising here as usual

Don't think it's a good plan on their part

[DSRilk]

Yes, some raids require more people; those would simply have to be done at lower levels where you aren't capped or the loot won't be upgraded. The goal is to make old content somewhat rewarding without having to do any additional design work.

As to whining, yes, but then again if WoW players were all given a free doughnut each month, some of them would find something to complain about. It also wouldn't be redoing anything in that you could still raid old-style with appropriate level chars. It just gives more incentive to run them at higher level. But like I said, I just run them for fun as is. I just thought it might be a good and easy way to alleviate some of the OTHER whining about having nothing to do at higher levels, repetitive dungeon runs, and having nearly dead old raids laying around.

[Deleted]

Most of the Raids are simply too large to be converted into 5mans and doing so would completely kill the essence of those raids. If it were to be done, Blizzard would undoubtedly cut the instances in half and remove several bosses.

Zul'aman, Zul'gurub and Upper Blackrock Spire were all small in comparison to Molten Core and Black Temple etc so the conversion wasn't too much of a stretch. The only raid that could conceivably be converted into 5mans would be Ruins of Ahn'qiraj (AQ20/10), as long as it was given the 'Zul'gurub treatment' and completely revamped rather than just a level increase.

[Anjerith]

I'd be happy if they simply blocked entrance to the old raids by anyone who doesn't have the achievement for completing the raid already. Seems silly that a new character would face the obstacles that veterans had already eliminated while vets should be able to relieve past glories.

[DSRilk]

I'd be happy if they simply blocked entrance to the old raids by anyone who doesn't have the achievement for completing the raid already. Seems silly that a new character would face the obstacles that veterans had already eliminated while vets should be able to relieve past glories.

So we should find more ways to limit the accessibility of content to non-"elite" players? And the logic behind this is that it makes no sense for new characters to face old already defeated obstacles, but that it is perfectly logical for old characters who have already defeated bosses to do it ad nauseum? If this idea were found anywhere but on a gaming forum, I'd assume you were joking.

[dyzophoria]

i do agree that its nice some of the time to have these rehash raids as "bonus" dungeons (say a heroic dungeon version of the raid but still retain the old content, or whatever), but honestly, alot of people will argue against this, they even think using the name twice is laziness on blizz's part, i dunno, but whatever

[brirrspliff]

Thoughts?

no.

on a more serious note, that is the case already. most raids have been solo'd. so?

[Culexus]

I dont want to have to farm for a level 85 version of a weapon/trink/whatever because its an upgrade by farming a years ago cleared raidinstance with less people to farm the exact same item i already farmed back then with scaled up stats. That would mean if were at level cap 90 i would have to go to mc/bwl/whatever again in order to farm this stupid one upgrade etc etc no ... just no.

[Deleted]

ragnaros makes sence since we only banished his weakened form ( Too soon remember ,
nefarian's + onyxia's heads were on a pole/hanging in SW/ORG's citties and their corpses skinned for leather,
how the crap did they get resed.
some raids would make sence with what happened to cho'gall.
5 adventurours go into the old aq40 to 'check' c'thun is actualy dead and find sumthing unexpected that would work as cho'gall was made different and sumthing had to do that to him it would work more than ZG/ZA because of the limited numbers of people who did AQ40 compared to how many did ZG/ZA so would get Less QQ about it.
also it would be changed the mobs inside no longer the insect armies but twilight followers.
the whole instances is only the same in arcitexture the mobs inside arn't even the same race they used to be.

/end rant

gief aq40

[Mammoth]

Old raids/dungeons re-released for level 85 are great. Unfortunately we're unlikely to see frequent releases of this sort because of the whiners who ruin it for the rest of us. Rather than allow Blizzard to make large dungeons using raid maps, the whining community would rather see brand new small maps released a lot less frequently. I guess the old versions of the raids are challenging enough for them that they can afford to wait longer between content releases.

As for the troll who didn't want people without the old achievement to access the old raids, then maybe we should also put restrictions on tier such that you must have the previous version in order to get the new version, so all raiders must start from T1.

[Avoksh]

I have to say that I think there would be a lot of complainers.

[abovebeyond]

Instead of making us farm trolls for Valor Points, there should be a different queue that brings 5 people in to an 85-tuned version of an old boss. Don't care if its Thaddius, Leotheras, or Vicidus. I think that would validate "earning" 140 VP more than slaying Jin'do for the 19th million time, and give real-time raid practice to those who need it. Just the right amount of nostalgia to give the fanboys something and hopefully keep the QQ'ers away from complaining about rehashed content.

Better yet, let us do x fight, and if we stand in y source of avoidable damage, we lose z amounts of valor points. Make people REALLY EARN their points instead of making it a matter of grinding time.

[DSRilk]

@abovebeyond

I really like the idea in your first paragraph. The second, while it feels good to think about... just isn't realistic. Plus, my wife and kids would never be able to earn anything. I love them, but... you know... wouldn't want to arena with them.

[Tharkkun]

I wouldn't be surprised at all if AQ20 and AQ40 turn into two 5 man instances in a future patch. When we start to get into the Deathwing or Old god story arc it wouldn't surprise me if they return.

[bohapjut]

Well as much as I would like to agree with you but

The community really doesn't like re-hashed stuff, and again would be an uprising here as usual

Don't think it's a good plan on their part

the community doesn't like anything Blizzard does, and has an uprising at each patch

[z01z]

I like the idea of turning the old raids into 5 mans for the appropriate level. Like doing Molten Core as a level 60-65 5man. It would let any new people see the instances, and give more choices for the LFD tool to put people into. And Blizz could just up the item level on some of the gear so it wouldnt be useless upon dropping.