Silly Priest Question

[Alonewarrior]

Oh okay, I understand it now. That makes sense. I thought it acted more like Last Stand where anything you had from the buff would be lost once the effect wore off. Thanks for clearing that up

[Deleted]

I love how you say "silly priest question" then everyone answers it and you still fail to see it. More like "silly priest player"

[Alonewarrior]

I love how you say "silly priest question" then everyone answers it and you still fail to see it. More like "silly priest player"

It was a lack of understanding of how the actual buff worked.

If it helps, you should OOM yourself and cast shadowfiend on a target dummy alone. Then once he's off CD, oom yourself and cast shadowfiend + Hymn of Hope and compare the difference in mana returned.

Yeah, I've been testing it on the dummy, and I'm seeing how it works :P

[Peppercat]

I love how you say "silly priest question" then everyone answers it and you still fail to see it. More like "silly priest player"

I thought he was being retarded too, but then I understood where the confusion was. I think it's fully understood now.

[[-Spiritus-]]

But how is that 4.5k mana kept after the buff drops? I don't understand how or why it would be kept since you should remain at the same percentage of mana whether you have that buff or not. I understand that more mana is to be gained when there is a larger mana pool, but I don't see how the extra mana is kept when it's all percentage based. It should also drop off, leaving you with the same percent but a lower total. I just cannot see how it would work out like that.

EDIT: Explanation deleted, not needed anymore.

As an aside, any % health gained during last stand works the same way. You keep the % bonus. That's why you'll regen more health when you use LS+ER than if you were to use ER alone.

[Peppercat]

(1) You have a box that can hold a maximum of 100 apples.
(2) You give away 50 apples.
(3) Each minute, someone comes by and gives you 3% of the maximum number of apples your can hold. [100*.03 or 3 apples].
(4) After a few minutes [you are up to 56 apples now], someone comes by and gives you another box that can hold another 100 apples for 3 minutes. Afterwards, that someone will take away the box that was given.
(5) You can now can hold a maximum of 200 apples.
(6) People still come by and give you 3% of the maximum number of apples you can hold, which has now doubled. [200 * .03 = 6 apples].
(7) For the next 3 minutes, you receive 6 apples every minute.
(8) At the end of the 3 minutes, you have a total of 74 apples. Had you not been given a second box, it would be at 65.
(9) The second box is taken away after 3 minutes. The maximum number of apples you can hold has been reduced from 200 to 100, however, you still have 74 apples [not 65].
(10) The next minute passes and you receive 3 more apples putting the total to 77.

I like apples much better than orange juice.

That was much better than my example Spirit lol nice job.

[Bohnerjam]

I never said you lose 3%. Like I said, 3% of a number is still 3% no matter how big that number is. 3% of 100k is 3k. 3% of 115k is 3.45k. You lose that 15% mana and you still sit at 3% mana, right? So 3% of 100k is 3k. Therefore gaining that extra mana should mean absolutely nothing.

you really don't understand how HoH or sfiend works

Raid situation you hit shadowfiend, he goes and does his thing; you hit HoH and start channeling

You have 50k/100k mana when you start this

50k->ShadowFiend->Hits(+3k)->HoH first tick puts you at 115k(First tick +2k)->Sfiend hits again(+3.45k)->HoH Tick 2(+2.3k)->Sfiend hit 3(+3.45k)->HoH Tick 3(+2.3k)->Sfiend 4(+3.45k)->HoH4(+2.3k)->Sfiend5 (+3.45k) We'll stop there but your sfiend can get more hits in (also note that the 15% mana from HoH persists for a couple seconds after channel ends

Now what happens HERE is that you return from 115k to 100k MAX MANA; you KEEP all of your extra gains since these returns were based off of maximum mana

So according to my model you went from 50k to 75,700/100k once you're done
Without the combo you would go from 50k to 73,000/100k

Since your returns once again are based off of MAXIMUM MANA; you are augmenting those by increasing mana pool temporarily

[highlandr]

So I have about 130k mana while raiding

You pop shadow fiend and pop HoH
First SF hit 3900 mana back
You receive the first tick of hoh 2600 mana back
You now receive 14950 mana
Second SF hit 4485 mana back (new max mana is now 149500)
Second HoH tick 2990 mana back (new max mana is now 149500)
SF hit 4485 mana back
3rd hoh tick 2990 mana back
SF hit 4485 mana back
SF hit 4485 mana back
4th and final HoH tick 2990 mana back 8 second timer starts for 15% mana boost
SF hit 4485 mana back
SF hit 4485 mana back
SF hit 4485 mana back
SF hit 4485 mana back
At this point you have gained 73250
Mana returns back to normal (you lose 19500 mana you gained)
You now have received 53750 total after the 15% is subtracted

Without HoH you would of received only 39000

This is all on a perfect run in which you received all ticks and you fiend hit all ten times. Adding hero/bloodlust, a int pot, power torrent procs, trinkets procs and profession proc's (tailoring/eng) will greatly increase mana returned even more.

[Deleted]

Its funny how this thread has little to do with the actual WoW priest mechanic, but is more of a misunderstanding of mathematics, a few people seem to have misunderstood the concept of exponential growth and percentages. MMO-Champion is an awesome place. <3

[Arlee]

Its funny how this thread has little to do with the actual WoW priest mechanic, but is more of a misunderstanding of mathematics, a few people seem to have misunderstood the concept of exponential growth and percentages. MMO-Champion is an awesome place. <3

Actually if you reread the thread and the OP's responses it was a misunderstanding of mechanics then of mathematics. He was thinking it worked like Last Stand used to where if you used it at 50% health the amount of health you had would increase but the % would remain the same, then say you were healed to 80%, when Last Stand wore off your max health would reduce but you would still be at 80% health.

[Deleted]

Actually if you reread the thread and the OP's responses it was a misunderstanding of mechanics then of mathematics. He was thinking it worked like Last Stand used to where if you used it at 50% health the amount of health you had would increase but the % would remain the same, then say you were healed to 80%, when Last Stand wore off your max health would reduce but you would still be at 80% health.

I was referring to posts such as this

I'm actually neither. 3% of a larger number may be a larger number, but 3% of a number is still 3%.