Question about demonology reforging

[Ekkoeu]

The reason the stat weightings changed is in fact because simulationcraft now accounts for the Doomguard triple dipping with that stat.

What is the Doomguard tripple dipping?

[Frewt]

He's triple dipping from Mastery.

Instead of gaining +16% Damage and a further +2% per point of Mastery, he's gaining +48% Damage and a further +6%.

[Jessicka]

Hmm, he gets 48% + 6% from Mastery yes? I'd forgotten about that when posting above. If Blizzard "fix" it (assuming it isn't intended - which is quite likely but you never know), would the T12 Heroic BiS list attempt to maintain the Corruption tick again?

I don't think it's intended at all, the Infernal does not seem to benefit from the same effect. If/When it's fixed, the extra tick from Corruption will likely become desirable again.

Frankly though, given the Doomguard's cooldown I'd go for it anyway, since you wont have it every pull. And to be perfectly honest, if you can't use it, you really might as well not bother using Demo at all where it's AoE burst isn't required.

[Frewt]

True, with the Infernal not benefitting it's likely not intended.

I disagree about not even bothering to use Demo though - It's very competetive when played properly and personally I find it the most fun of all 3 Warlock specs. Not being able to pop Doomguard at the start of the fight with every single proc, potion and Blood Fury does hurt, and I wish it functioned similarly to Bloodlust with a 5min CD but a Sated style effect that dissipates upon death, but I doubt Blizzard would ever make the change.

[Tale]

http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-a...orgenator.aspx

Lovely addon, tells you what to reforge to get the caps of stats for each spec etc. Gl.

[koltara]

Just checked my profile with wow-reforge with my scalings.
It dropped haste below 1846 (goblin) and raised to nearly 17 mastery.

[Deleted]

Mastery is gold of demo, if all things are timed well... and especially if guardian is off cd.
But then, jumping over "what's best simcraft wise", you can take a look at some locks from big guilds.

For example Jubeto from Paragon prefered to stay at 1993 haste and get one extra corruption thick.
On the other hand, Duus, the demo lock from Ensidia... just ignored haste and went deep mastery 2800

While I'm sure one of the 2 is a bit better, it depends also how you like to play it; it's really strange to play with low haste, especially on fights with lots of movement and dodging fire required. But as you can see... I'm sure both of them do GREAT and until the Moonwell Chalice will be able to be bought, things will be the same.

---------- Post added 2011-07-14 at 07:15 PM ----------

Regarding the moment when ppl will have enough marks to get "THE TRINKET" ... if I take Duus with 2800 mastery + baleroc HC trinket 480 + Moonwell chalice 1700 use - 200 mastery that he loses by droping the dmc reforged = 4780 mastery... then pop Doomguard; and also he will have 4780 mastery each Meta CD, since with lower haste he will not get Meta ready under 2 min (trinket CD)... well I'd say it will be OP. And i think there will be a nerf incoming at that point. It's just the way I guess it will be...

[Jahrastafari]

Regarding the moment when ppl will have enough marks to get "THE TRINKET" ... if I take Duus with 2800 mastery + baleroc HC trinket 480 + Moonwell chalice 1700 use - 200 mastery that he loses by droping the dmc reforged = 4780 mastery... then pop Doomguard; and also he will have 4780 mastery each Meta CD, since with lower haste he will not get Meta ready under 2 min (trinket CD)... well I'd say it will be OP. And i think there will be a nerf incoming at that point. It's just the way I guess it will be...

I'm in agreement. This Doomguard triple-dipping will be hotfixed in short-order, and we'll be left with one choice when it comes to raiding, Affliction.

[Monkeyy4]

Mastery is gold of demo, if all things are timed well... and especially if guardian is off cd.
But then, jumping over "what's best simcraft wise", you can take a look at some locks from big guilds.

For example Jubeto from Paragon prefered to stay at 1993 haste and get one extra corruption thick.
On the other hand, Duus, the demo lock from Ensidia... just ignored haste and went deep mastery 2800

While I'm sure one of the 2 is a bit better, it depends also how you like to play it; it's really strange to play with low haste, especially on fights with lots of movement and dodging fire required. But as you can see... I'm sure both of them do GREAT and until the Moonwell Chalice will be able to be bought, things will be the same.

---------- Post added 2011-07-14 at 07:15 PM ----------

Regarding the moment when ppl will have enough marks to get "THE TRINKET" ... if I take Duus with 2800 mastery + baleroc HC trinket 480 + Moonwell chalice 1700 use - 200 mastery that he loses by droping the dmc reforged = 4780 mastery... then pop Doomguard; and also he will have 4780 mastery each Meta CD, since with lower haste he will not get Meta ready under 2 min (trinket CD)... well I'd say it will be OP. And i think there will be a nerf incoming at that point. It's just the way I guess it will be...

Or using heroic theralions mirror, when the proc lines up you could put another 2k mastery in there.

I've already had my doomguard crit for 90k on a non gimmick (increased damage taken etc) fight. Easily over 100k once I get my trinket.

I might take him into bgs and laugh at people. At least get some joy before the nerf comes.

[Penguin FTW]

I'm in agreement. This Doomguard triple-dipping will be hotfixed in short-order, and we'll be left with one choice when it comes to raiding, Affliction.

Oh to have the choice.

[Deleted]

Theralions mirror is kinda... RNGish; idd, it will be stupid insane buff, but not something that u can easy count on; at least not on your 2nd - 3rd meta cd off.
But up, there was a solution of 4780 (in Duus case) mastery that will be up on each Meta and ofc, a "decent" buffed doomguard.

[Penguin FTW]

motherfuckerrrrrr, wowreforge doesn't register the branch of nordrassil for some reason

[OOMM]

I haven't been able to simulate an advantage of 1993 haste over max mastery for any of my gear sets. I do see other Demonology Warlocks using this strategy and out dpsing me on single target fights on WoL, so there may be a simulation error (more likely a skill deficiency on my part.) Is anyone getting this reforge style to sim higher dps or are you finding other ways to determine its advantage?

[kushlol]

why am I just now finding out about the moonwell chalice.......this is what happens when I only log on to raid..Q.Q weeks behind on these dailys now.

[Micke]

I haven't been able to simulate an advantage of 1993 haste over max mastery for any of my gear sets. I do see other Demonology Warlocks using this strategy and out dpsing me on single target fights on WoL, so there may be a simulation error (more likely a skill deficiency on my part.) Is anyone getting this reforge style to sim higher dps or are you finding other ways to determine its advantage?

well looking at the sims with movement factored in, haste increases in worth compared to the other stats for all specs

[Jessicka]

Regarding the moment when ppl will have enough marks to get "THE TRINKET" ... if I take Duus with 2800 mastery + baleroc HC trinket 480 + Moonwell chalice 1700 use - 200 mastery that he loses by droping the dmc reforged = 4780 mastery... then pop Doomguard; and also he will have 4780 mastery each Meta CD, since with lower haste he will not get Meta ready under 2 min (trinket CD)... well I'd say it will be OP. And i think there will be a nerf incoming at that point. It's just the way I guess it will be...

Here's the thing though; even by exploiting these things Affliction is still simming ahead of Demo anyway.

[lightgil]

Here's the thing though; even by exploiting these things Affliction is still simming ahead of Demo anyway.

I for one am hoping sims are wrong

[OOMM]

I for one am hoping sims are wrong

They aren't as accurate as they could be. Simulating a Felguard opener as well as a few other changes pulls it ahead of Affliction by 100-200dps.

[Harsesis]

They aren't as accurate as they could be. Simulating a Felguard opener as well as a few other changes pulls it ahead of Affliction by 100-200dps.

Yes but how well does it look when you have to hardcast your fel hunter after you use soul burn to get out a felguard for your second demon soul/meta?

[Penguin FTW]

It'd be a total waste of dps to resummon a felguard and switch again midfight.