[Books] A Dance with Dragons (MASSIVE spoilers a certainty)

[Slothanator]

I read the entire post, Sigemund. I still think it's bunk.

GRRM as always gone on and on about things like turtles. Look at any feast in any book. Look to Tolkien for more examples of this. There's a reason GRRM writes.

The passage of time is not constant and can vary from chapter to chapter. He also did not write about the battle of the Whispering Woods. Should we assume that was simply because it was not important?

Victarian travel chapters made me like him and want to hear about him. before that, I didn't really care about the Iron Fleet.

Tyion chapters delved further into him. We learned the story of Griff and his companions. We saw Mormont re-introduced. We saw Tyrion's wily ways land him closer to his destination. And at the end, where is he? Closer to his goal.

Jon chapters are being ridiculed because you (he) didn't think the story should go there? Really? I personally saw his endeavor with the wildlings as a brilliant move to bolster a crippled order. He put good with bad in other towers. he knew they would plot, and took as many precautioins as he could to help it. Fact remains, the wall must be manned! His final decision seemed ( but we don't truly know yet) rash and boyish. It seemed wrong. And he paid. That is one of those ongoing themes of the series though.

I have to go, so like the other things I said, Bran and Dany fall into the same thing. We are being shown many things from them. just because it's not fast paced and action packed does not mean they were done poorly. We learned what GRRM wanted us to learn, and I know each of them better than I did before.

Yeah,you enjoy reading pages upon pages of pointless descriptions of food with very little story progression,we get it.

You guys are aware fat old guys don't live forever right ? When you say you have most of something written and it takes 7 years to release the other half in which the story barely moves,it's kind of a bad sign.... That aside he isn't going to live forever and dragging out the story for more cash/hbo seasons is annoying.Mostly because he will probably be dead before the books are finished. Wheel of time living sequels

[Deleted]

I don't exactly understand the argument that 'nothing happens' in ADwD. When you write it down, there's some interesting new stuff.

The North is way more savage than we knew.
Theon's journey from Reek to Ghost of Winterfell to Theon Greyjoy again. <= Loved that myself.
Daenerys riding Drogon for the very first time.
The whole Aegon uprising.
Robert Strong.
Possible rebirth of Azor Ahai (the speculation around Jon Snow).
Varys and his questionable loyalties.

Also, GRRM redently put up a chapter from Winds of Winter. Without spoiling too much... I somewhat doubt the missive sent by Ramsay was true. Even before I was uncertain, but now I don't believe Stannis would rush into a trap just like that.

[Slothanator]

I don't exactly understand the argument that 'nothing happens' in ADwD. When you write it down, there's some interesting new stuff.

The North is way more savage than we knew.
Theon's journey from Reek to Ghost of Winterfell to Theon Greyjoy again. <= Loved that myself.
Daenerys riding Drogon for the very first time.
The whole Aegon uprising.
Robert Strong.
Possible rebirth of Azor Ahai (the speculation around Jon Snow).
Varys and his questionable loyalties.

Also, GRRM redently put up a chapter from Winds of Winter. Without spoiling too much... I somewhat doubt the missive sent by Ramsay was true. Even before I was uncertain, but now I don't believe Stannis would rush into a trap just like that.

Yes things happen but ones you listed are so small and few that you can't justify an entire book based on them. No one is denying some things did happen. But the core story is not even closed to finished.Its going to be an entire book before dany ever lands in westro's. My problem with ADWD is the huge wait with little pay off and large amounts of tease.

I would not even be bothered by this but as I mention earlier GRRM is old,and not in the greatest shape. Do you really think he can finish this series before he dies ? Looking at disappointment of AFFC (This is only my opinion I know some people enjoyed) followed by 7 years of waiting for "the other half". I just don't think he is going to be able to finish the books which is what's annoying about an entire book of fluff content.

Daenery's did nothing but sulk for the entire book I don't see her getting on a dragon 1 time. When she could have spent the entire time training them previously,something important. Her character acted completely foolish the entire time. By Aegon uprising do you mean a few chapters at the end mentioning it ? All the characters we wanted to see her beat (or aegon I guess) are dead or pretty much out of the game. The only thing dany will even need to show up for are white walkers 2 books away.

Stannis is tool I hope he's dead anyway lol...

[Badpaladin]

He's already planned for there to be two books (and this is something he's concrete on, as he stated he already has endings for many characters set in stone) after aDwD. I just don't see the validity in being disappointed that nothing was really resolved.

As far as aFfC, that was actually my personal favorite. The (what was it, 23?) chapters on Cersei Lannister were incredibly well done, making her my favorite overall character.

[Deleted]

Yes things happen but ones you listed are so small and few that you can't justify an entire book based on them.

I believe you're misunderstanding the intent of the books. They're not supposed to be the ending of the series. Not every book is supposed to be awesomer than the last.

The tempo is masterful: a bombastic beginning causing two books of constant strife, then the Lannister victory. The union of Highgarden and Casterly Rock pretty much reigns unopposed in the Seven Kingdoms after the Red Wedding, and the main theme of both AFfC and ADwD is showing just how broken and bloody Westeros actually is, before bringing in new players to try and rebuild it. It's the fifth book of seven, it's not the end of the series.

And come on... the guy's only 63, and from seeing him live I'd say he's not quite at Death's door yet.

[Zaelsino]

As far as aFfC, that was actually my personal favorite. The (what was it, 23?) chapters on Cersei Lannister were incredibly well done, making her my favorite overall character.

Yeah, her ostensible downfall in Feast and "Robert Strong" helping her back up in Dance was great writing. Brienne nearly killed that book for me though; her travelogue was far too aimless (and pointless, since we already knew she'd fail from day one) to span that long.

[Badpaladin]

Yeah, her ostensible downfall in Feast and "Robert Strong" helping her back up in Dance was great writing. Brienne nearly killed that book for me though; her travelogue was far too aimless (and pointless, since we already knew she'd fail from day one) to span that long.

Yeah, I agree there. I think it would have been great if her section(s) were condensed down to two chapters. It was great seeing how she thinks, but after that it got a little tedious. Introduction + fight with Rorge/Biter would be fine with me.

[Slothanator]

I believe you're misunderstanding the intent of the books. They're not supposed to be the ending of the series. Not every book is supposed to be awesomer than the last.

The tempo is masterful: a bombastic beginning causing two books of constant strife, then the Lannister victory. The union of Highgarden and Casterly Rock pretty much reigns unopposed in the Seven Kingdoms after the Red Wedding, and the main theme of both AFfC and ADwD is showing just how broken and bloody Westeros actually is, before bringing in new players to try and rebuild it. It's the fifth book of seven, it's not the end of the series.

And come on... the guy's only 63, and from seeing him live I'd say he's not quite at Death's door yet.

I don't understand your reasoning of an entire book of teasing being "a masterful tempo" Tyrion floats on a boat and plays a board game,dany sits in the slave cities acting like a child,and Jon counts beans. Although Jon's chapters weren't as bad because what he was doing actually made sense. I'm not saying the characters didn't have the right to do those things but they did for the entire fucking book.

If you honestly enjoyed cersei brooding around the castle acting entitled to everything that ever happens,you will probably enjoy anything GRRM feeds you. I enjoyed them as well the first 4 or 5 after that it was the same thing,more fluff to extend the story. Yes I know he was planning 2 more books and at the current pace the story isn't going to be resolved reasonably in those 2,He should have just done the time skip he planned.

I get kind of annoyed when people try and say he's making a "masterful tempo" when we have pages describing food and everytime someone takes a piss,I don't need to know what people are "breaking their fast" "know nothing jon snow" "where do whores go" "I must not go back" 20 times every chapter.

I believe you misunderstand what "continuing the story" and "making more books to cash in" are,at least this is how I feel. Seven years waiting for another mediocre book upset a lot of fans not just me.You might say "its the set up" but look at the first 3 it had a great balance of both story and things happening. The last 2 books seem like someone else wrote them -.-

[Vorenos]

Sloth, it all comes down to personal taste, in the end. i totally understand all of your complaints about the pace of the book and the way it meanders about. However, i read the same book you did and i loved every minute of it. for me, the truth is in the details, in the random bits of history or daily life that are buried in there that makes the world full and truly realistic (the "realest" fantasy world i have ever encountered, by far). i totally loved the long descriptions of jon snow working things out with stannis or the wildlings and bowen marsh, of tyrion on the river or as a slave, with dany in mereen, etc.

if you want a different pace or less descriptive narrative, i dont know why you made it this long into the series, to be quite honest. its not like ADWD was the first book to be long winded...

[Slothanator]

Sloth, it all comes down to personal taste, in the end. i totally understand all of your complaints about the pace of the book and the way it meanders about. However, i read the same book you did and i loved every minute of it. for me, the truth is in the details, in the random bits of history or daily life that are buried in there that makes the world full and truly realistic (the "realest" fantasy world i have ever encountered, by far). i totally loved the long descriptions of jon snow working things out with stannis or the wildlings and bowen marsh, of tyrion on the river or as a slave, with dany in mereen, etc.

if you want a different pace or less descriptive narrative, i dont know why you made it this long into the series, to be quite honest. its not like ADWD was the first book to be long winded...

I enjoyed the first 3 and the 4th ...I just couldn't stand cersei chapters after the first few did we honestly need so many for her ? We could have had many more Arya chapters and it would have been 20x better in my opinion. Jamie ones I liked considering we only saw him through other PoV prior to that book,Brienne I felt should have never really been introduced I just don't like her that much.

ADWD Dany first let me say I never understood the whole "liberate the slave cities man,attitude" but at least she would kill people who crossed her and actually mad progress. I went from loving her chapters to asking myself...When will this be over she just keeps on acting like a totally different character while not listening to her advisers who actually understand how things work. Then in the very last chapter she's like "oh I've kind of be acting like an idiot for 20 chapters time to give a you hint of what I might do in the next book". It was honestly painful I don't see what reason there is to keep her there for an entire book except make more books and a longer story,which is basically what the past 2 books have been about. Quinten martell chapters ? Really how can you defend that trash or tyrion sitting on a boat and playing slave midget for one thousand pages.

He should have done the time skip he planned,repeating catch phrases and writing an entire book of tease with no happy ending wasn't very fun at all. Keep in mind it took him 7 years to release this. So I do expect the next book in at least the next 2-3 years at the max.