What presence to use in frost DW?

[Sunshine]

Haste only reduces the GCD after spells. Not after melee abilities.

Also, the spell GCD effect on haste for instant spells still applies -- that's one reason why haste is useful for resto druids, who use many instant-cast heals.

[Foibles]

HB, DC, IT, BB, DnD, and Outbreak should be the only abilities affected by hasted GCDs.

Avatar. You are wrong. Please stop spreading misinformation.

[Cactrot]

According to the link i posted Haste does affect GCD. it hasnt changed. no it would not affect instant cast spells. not sure why ou even mentioned that though. besides that haste has exactly 0 effect on anything instant.

it does affect GCD which is not instant as well as casters and rune regen.

I... what...? You brought up haste and then try to attack me for trying to give you the benefit of the doubt about it? If it doesn't affect instant cast spells, why did you bring it up? How can you try to attack me on that when it was YOUR point?

[r3nd]

Avatar Killer, seriously, just give up. You're wrong.

Embrace it, learn from it, and move on.

Because you're looking like a giant dickhead right now.

[Avatar Killer]

Avatar. You are wrong.

thanks for sticking your nose out and following the heard to insult me.

[Foibles]

I'm telling you that you are wrong so people who are curious for real information aren't bogged down by your stupid posts.

[Cactrot]

I'm telling you that you are wrong so people who are curious for real information aren't bogged down by your stupid posts.

Just let it go. We don't need to go down to his level. An admin is here and he can take any action he deems appropriate. It's out of our hands. So lets keep it civil and just try to get the correct information out there.

[Sunshine]

Like I said, insults on all sides are not to be tolerated.

Please move on and leave the insults behind.

[Rainec]

i dunno about u guys, but i prefer FP to UP

story is i took a wow hiatus right before the zanadalari patch and right before the unholy nerfs. when i returned, i couldnt do nearly the same dps, so i figured id go frost and, since i had wotlk dw frost experience before the big nerfs (goooooooood times), i did much better than my original unholy dps. no one ever pointed out in random heroics that i was using an "inferior" pres, b/c how can u argue with the highest group dps percentage on every boss and overall?

it was only recently that i figured out unholy is the generally accepted pres. I tried UP for a few days and it *seemed* to be as good if not slightly better.... but then this:

during BoT last night i thought id do a dps comparison:
after valiona and theralion, theres 2 large dragonkin right? right. i decided id use UP on one and FP on the other.

killing machine procced almost equally (actually slightly more in unholy, but...)
results:

UP: 19k
FP: 24k

...difference is somewhat scary, really....

i realize RNG is RNG, but come on, 5k more dps for a different presence? thats ridiculous

i also realize i might have a more experienced feel to FP than UP, but i have to admit, i felt rp starved in UP

my (personal) conclusion: FP > UP

flame all u want, im sticking with FP

[Cactrot]

i dunno about u guys, but i prefer FP to UP

story is i took a wow hiatus right before the zanadalari patch and right before the unholy nerfs. when i returned, i couldnt do nearly the same dps, so i figured id go frost and, since i had wotlk dw frost experience before the big nerfs (goooooooood times), i did much better than my original unholy dps. no one ever pointed out in random heroics that i was using an "inferior" pres, b/c how can u argue with the highest group dps percentage on every boss and overall?

it was only recently that i figured out unholy is the generally accepted pres. I tried UP for a few days and it *seemed* to be as good if not slightly better.... but then this:

during BoT last night i thought id do a dps comparison:
after valiona and theralion, theres 2 large dragonkin right? right. i decided id use UP on one and FP on the other.

killing machine procced almost equally (actually slightly more in unholy, but...)
results:

UP: 19k
FP: 24k

...difference is somewhat scary, really....

i realize RNG is RNG, but come on, 5k more dps for a different presence? thats ridiculous

i also realize i might have a more experienced feel to FP than UP, but i have to admit, i felt rp starved in UP

my (personal) conclusion: FP > UP

flame all u want, im sticking with FP

I'm sorry, but one mob is way way way way WAY too small of a sample to compare them. You're also comparing the playstyle you're familiar with against the play style you're not familiar with. Did you check logs to see if you had any lucky or unlucky streaks? If you were RP starved in RP, perhaps you were not following priority.
I won't hate on you for doing what you prefer, but that small level of data can only lead to problems. It's an anecdote, not evidence.

The EJ main post has not been updated for 4.2, but it pushes UH heavily. The changes in 4.2 should, if anything, make UP even better as the haste it gives means those offhands generating KM procs will happen more often.

For AoE it recommends UH, and FP for EXTENDED aoe. I can't think of many situations that have extended AoE anymore. Especially long enough to warrant dropping all your RP twice. This also shouldn't really have changed with the patch notes.

[Avatar Killer]

i dunno about u guys, but i prefer FP to UP...

not going to quote the whole thing but you said it right when you said you PREFER. although not entirely the best way to go it still stand with this though...

you will do better with what you prefer regardless of what other people say. if you HATE UH but it does a theoretical 5% more dps but you seem to do less then guess what... who cares that UH does more dps if you do more in the one YOU like. YOU will do less dps and therefore it is irrelevant as to what OTHER people do. if YOU do less dps in a different spec/presence/forging then pic what does the best for YOU vs the community.

Though this is always true you may come out "ahead" using UHP and a haste build... i am in the same boat and i come out slightly behind which is why i use a mastery build with FP.

and as he said flame all you want im sticking to what works best for me.

[toeknee]

All this arguing and stick poking is silly. If you are able to get more than the amount of haste to GCD cap you in FP(17.4%) then an UP haste build will be optimal for you. If not, then a mastery based FP build will work better. Then of course there are specific encounters to take into consideration. There is no "is best" build at the moment.

[Deleted]

Ok ok I'm confused.

So from what I've understood, if I'm aoeing for a longer time and even have haste stacked, FP is a good thing.


In the Beth'tilac fight I'm assigned to kill the little skittering spiderlings which I have to aoe alot, for whole of phase 1. I should do this in FP? (I've done it in UH so far)
Can I slow these spiderlings btw with chillbains in my spec?

[Foibles]

Basically, unless it's a realllllly long aoe phase, it's not worth the mid fight switch.

[Jackkernaut]

Ok i've tested it about 2 hours and i must say, i rarely find any drastic DPS change between the two presences...
Also i found out i never run out of "skills to cast" while in frost presence...

[Foibles]

Running out isn't the issue. The problem is having too many resources, and not enough time to use them.

[Cactrot]

All this arguing and stick poking is silly. If you are able to get more than the amount of haste to GCD cap you in FP(17.4%) then an UP haste build will be optimal for you. If not, then a mastery based FP build will work better. Then of course there are specific encounters to take into consideration. There is no "is best" build at the moment.

That seems overly simplistic. The number for the GCD haste cap seems waaay off to me, but either way, the haste cap doesn't affect a pretty good % of our damage. Why would having so much haste that FP becomes pointless mean that UP is better, considering it doesn't affect the GCD in UP AT ALL to begin with. I'd think that at that up to that point haste would be more beneficial for FP, not UP... I'm just not following the logic of "when you have a 1 sec GCD naturally, you should swap to the presence that gives you a 1 sec GCD"...

[burbon]

Holy crap look at what I started. I'm gone for a few hours and this just took off lol. Thanks for the support i suppose. Some people just don't know when to quit, let alone apologize for their mistakes.