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  1. #21
    you have to accept it, people and their recounts, 10k is the absolute min I could think of for the ZA/ZG dungeons (unless you have a healer with infinite mana, then go ahead and bring lower dps toons), but heck honestly its not a reason to kick someone unless that someone is being a dick

  2. #22
    Much like affliction locks, you have a ramp up time. If trash is dying too fast, your DPS is going to go in the gutter. As it looks like he was kicked based off the DPS on trash, I'm thinking it has something to do with it (or the person isn't multidotting, etc, but that all depends on pace of the dungeon group, too many variables here)

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Mooboy View Post
    Right so you clear up your original post of

    What you actually meant was 'people wearing spirit gear above the hitcap', your first post reads like 'spirit gear is for healers and that's why they have low dps'

    It helps if you're clear.

    As for your example, I'm sure there are some healers that want to try DPS'ing and just change talents, I'm sure some like to try the fun of a 15 - 20 min queue instead of a 2 - 3 min one, I've just never seen it.
    I've seen it alot. At the begining of Cata when it was harder to get gear. Alot of healers couldnt keep from going OOM when they started running heroics, So they swapped over to dps hoping to gear up a lil. The same thing happend when ZG/ZA was released. Apparently some ppl want to be heals, but occasionally the idea of less responsibility appeals to them.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferin View Post
    Yeah, how's that 30% hit set working out for you?When I still had a shadow spec my dps was always fairly poor in heal gear due to having waaay too much spirit at the expense of other stats.also, could be worse, I had an arcane mage doing 7k the other day. One of the other dps pulled him up as I was outdpsing him (as disc) but we didn't kick him; it's not like we were struggling.
    I have spirit on about 13 of my pieces and have to reforge to hit on my gear anyway in order to reach the cap, this is in 359 and 372 gea though.

  5. #25
    I am Murloc! Ryngo Blackratchet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tizo View Post
    Who still gives a f*** about 5 man heroics ?
    The people using it as the controllable context for this particular example. Everyone in this thread. Everyone in the thread linked. Keep up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Herradura View Post
    This game attracts some of the most greedy assholes I've ever seen. It's mind boggling. They don't owe you a thing! You are the one who decides to pay them! It's a fucking video game!

  6. #26
    people look way to much at overall DPS, on trash packs its hard to get to your optimal dps as a shadow priest - stuff can just die way to quick! On a long boss fight shadow priests really do start to shine.

    When im playing my shadow priest i struggle to hit 8k on 3 mob trash if the other dps is really good, i just cant get going. But on a boss fight im 15+k, take the over all dps number and im at about 11k. My gear is pants as its not been anywhere near a raid EVER, but im mostly epic. I like playing my spriest as its alot of fun and alot of work making sure you have all your dots and stuff going, but our ramp up time can be our problem. Its change from healing raids as a holy paladin.

  7. #27
    shadowpriests are the spec that relies more on outside buffs than every other spec in the game. they only bring one dpsbuff to the table - 5% spell haste (in comparison the other casters: warlock: 2-3 buffs, mage 2.5 buffs, shaman 3 buffs, moonkin 3 buffs), while their dps scales with a wide array of outside buffs and debuffs:

    +5%critical strike
    +3%overall damage
    pushback reduction
    +10% spellpower
    +5%int (kings)
    dark intent
    +5% spellcritical strike
    +8% spelldamage

    so while a GOOD shadowpriests can and will outdps most of the other pug members ON BOSSES, his ability to do huge amounts of damage (or dps) on trash heavily relies on the trashuptime (the worse the other damage dealers are, the longer trash will live - and this will give the shadowpriest the opportunity to do more damage through dots) and the amount of buffs within the group.

    in addition, a good shadowpriest will always have a second gear for heroics, as bosses are only level 82 and he doesn't need 17% hit, but only 6% - which is a huge difference, if you can get more crit/mastery instead of this 11% hit (more haste would ofc be even better, but lets face it: you'll probably already have haste on every single piece). this affects casters like shadow priests a lot more than melees, as they aren't wasting as much rating through being raidhitcapped in 5 mans (they aren't going for whitehitcap most of the time).

  8. #28
    Sad that I made an account just for this thread, but it had to happen eventually.

    Lots of people have all of the information for low shadow DPS littered throughout this thread. I run with some people who do high DPS and no, we can't compete with feral druids, rogues, DK's, and any other melee class (together) for trash DPS. If you run with 2 melee and say a pally tank, most things are going to die before you get a chance to get your dots fully ticked. At that point I just dot up one or two targets and mind sear if it's not going to break any CC.

    Sometimes you aren't going to do the DPS you think you should. I did a Shadowfang Keep yesterday with a friend and it seemed like the entire run I was just sucking hard. I did an overall over 14k and could not figure out why. We ran another, got Grim Gatol and I ended up on average of 20k. It's all about what classes you get in your groups, if you get the group buff, and if you are the one that out-gears everyone else. Does that mean I'm going to do 10k in a raid? No.

    Also, you people who say "I do 25k in 352's" are flat out lying. I'm in 378's and I don't do 25k overall in heroics. Not saying that it can't be done, just that you aren't doing it. People however should stop kicking people from a group if they can't do the DPS that people "think" they should be doing. Stop being a jerk, realize that not all people are wanting to spend the hours it takes to learn everything and get it down perfectly. Some people do just want to play the game. Perhaps it is an alt. Perhaps they are still learning the class. This whole game has turned into "I'm better than you and you suck if you're not better than me".

    I have my moments where I get on the crappy DPS. I have my moments where I just can't take it anymore. But if you are doing the massive amount of DPS you say you are, then what's the point? If you get someone in there that also does 25k, you won't be doing 25k anymore and your epeen deflates.

    Quote Originally Posted by eErike View Post
    I have spirit on about 13 of my pieces and have to reforge to hit on my gear anyway in order to reach the cap, this is in 359 and 372 gea though.
    What? How can you have spirit on 13 of your pieces and still reforge to hit? Can you link your armory?
    Last edited by khuur; 2011-07-18 at 01:34 PM.

  9. #29
    Every one is talking about multidotting on trash? that maybe applies when theres 3 or less mobs on pack but most trash packs are more... so usually just spamming mind sear is more dps :<

    And yes shadow priest is the spec that relies most on buffs the grp brings.. on my ilvl373 priest Dark Intent alone is little over 2k dps buff (full raidbuffed but still its crazy that we depend fucking lot on warlocks)...

  10. #30
    Poeple doing 10k on ZA/ZG runs make it a lot tougher for the rest of the group. With the 15% random buff there should be no reason why people don't pull much higher DPS. Ramp up time is not the issue because shaman have a massive ramp up time and we can still do decently.

    You will need the other DPS to do a lot of covering on the last ZA boss (depending on the combo) if you are letting someone stay with 10k DPS.

    People seem to want to jump straight from a new 85 into the latest content.

    Anecdotal Evidence: I ran with a shadow priest the other day in a random and he/she destroyed the rest of us. Averaged around 20k on scada and 28k on some of the trash groups and the lowest DPS was 17k.

  11. #31
    Mechagnome
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    excuses, i dont pull under 15k on a boss even if i screw my rotation in 5 mans.

  12. #32
    Brewmaster angael's Avatar
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    I find that my shadow dps is only 10k roughly on trash mobs. I figured its because spriests don't have much in the way of aoe. When I get to bosses though (depending on the boss) I pull 12-14k dps in ilvl 355 gear.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by angael View Post
    I find that my shadow dps is only 10k roughly on trash mobs. I figured its because spriests don't have much in the way of aoe. When I get to bosses though (depending on the boss) I pull 12-14k dps in ilvl 355 gear.
    Erm, are you a patch behind? Mind sear kicks ass especially now heroics are becoming more like "wrath style" of less CC more big pulls :P
    Multi Doting isnt completly redundent anymore, a few SWP's thrown in followed by a mind sear will still rock the meters in 5 mans

  14. #34
    I'd like to add that a 10k dps in ZA is only problematic if you want a bear run, which shouldn't be done in lfd pugs anyways.
    ZA bosses are not dps checks, kicking someone for 10k dps was uncalled for, even if he/she was a sub par dps.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by khuur View Post
    People however should stop kicking people from a group if they can't do the DPS that people "think" they should be doing. Stop being a jerk, realize that not all people are wanting to spend the hours it takes to learn everything and get it down perfectly. Some people do just want to play the game. Perhaps it is an alt. Perhaps they are still learning the class. This whole game has turned into "I'm better than you and you suck if you're not better than me".
    And wiping on a boss 8 times is fun? I am normally the most patient of players. I will normally give everyone some time to prove themselves but I am getting more and more impatient of late. Every wipe on the last boss is a 4 min walk back in. People should not be doing content way above their gear level. It makes is a nightmare for those of us who want to get our valor and get out of there. People cheat the system with PVP gear and things like that.

    ---------- Post added 2011-07-18 at 02:06 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucapa View Post
    I'd like to add that a 10k dps in ZA is only problematic if you want a bear run, which shouldn't be done in lfd pugs anyways.
    ZA bosses are not dps checks, kicking someone for 10k dps was uncalled for, even if he/she was a sub par dps.
    The last ZA boss puts out huge damage, especially the lynx/dragonhawk combo. You really don't want people doing 10k there unless you have a very good tank and healer. The problem is that people are getting a couple of blues, some BOE epics and a few PVP pieces and jimmying the system to try and climb the gear ladder as quickly as possible without doing the normal HC's a bit first.

  16. #36
    Lol, tell him the priest to MC the fire guys, they will make you do like 30k dps haha

    ---------- Post added 2011-07-18 at 02:53 PM ----------

    But yea, my dps is always up or down. It can be really really low like 9k, and but high as 20k. Just depends on procs. Over all I push my dps hard, and most of the time I can make number one or two on the meters.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by khuur View Post
    Can you link your armory?
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...d/viani/simple
    Memory played me a little as I havn't played for a while (hence the mastery and crit fails on the reforge), 8 bits of spirit/hit gear and another 8 that I've refoged, can't change to shadow withing the closest 40days (no gaming at the summer, live and learn!) but my hit have never differed more than 0,12% from the cap.
    Last edited by eErike; 2011-07-18 at 02:55 PM. Reason: Ipad screwed my link :(

  18. #38
    I am vaguely confused why trash dps matters? I mean I guess if trash isn't dying it would be an issue but (maybe I have just been lucky) I haven't seen this be a problem ever.

    As for boss dps.... there is no reason a spriest can't put out at least 10dps, and more often than not should be doing more than that.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Arlee View Post
    I am vaguely confused why trash dps matters?
    Because damage matters don't really distinguish trash and bosses?

  20. #40
    They do if you set them to only report current fight or only bosses instead of overall.

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