Thrall by Cristie Golden: ENOUGH ALREADY!!!

[Sal the Shieldhog]

Leave? Leave what exactly? This isn't a bar or a club.

Blizzard is doing a piss poor job at telling their own story. Not to mention they hire some of the worst voice actors imaginable for their characters. Case in point; listen to Darius Crowley's voice a few dozen times. If you believe in a (merciful) god, you won't after hearing him.

You do, huh? Okay. Start listing off some names. I'd like to make sure you're not full of Blizzard. Yeah, that's right, instead of saying "full of shit", it is now correctly known as being "full of Blizzard". Thank you Captain Obvious. I AM a writer. Do I get published? No. Then again, I've never actually tried to but that doesn't mean I'm less of a writer than Knaak or Golden.

Leave the game. No one is telling you to play it.

You guys all complain about them not using enough voice actors, so they get more, and then you complain that the voice actors suck. Nice, that's like asking for a cup of coffee at a coffee shop, then throwing it in the waitress' face because it isn't light/dark enough.

First: I sure as hell do. Second: Who the fuck are you to question my opinion? And what, I'm supposed to list off my RL friends' names to "satisfy" you. Because I like the story, I'm "full of Blizzard"?

News flash: Stop playing the game. It's Blizzard's game; You don't like it, get the hell out.

[orcshaman24]

Leave the game. No one is telling you to play it.

You guys all complain about them not using enough voice actors, so they get more, and then you complain that the voice actors suck. Nice, that's like asking for a cup of coffee at a coffee shop, then throwing it in the waitress' face because it isn't light/dark enough.

First: I sure as hell do. Second: Who the fuck are you to question my opinion? And what, I'm supposed to list off my RL friends' names to "satisfy" you. Because I like the story, I'm "full of Blizzard"?

News flash: Stop playing the game. It's Blizzard's game; You don't like it, get the hell out.

This, on so many god dam levels, and not just at Magivante, but everyone bitching at not getting what they want in the current story. Its blizzard bloody story, not yours so either suck it up or sod off.

[Deleted]

Unfortunately, Cataclysm was a game changer. There hasn't been anyone with sufficent backstory with probably the exception of Arthas that they could wrap the expansion around, apart from Thrall. Since Thrall was first introduced, he's been a major player in the lore and it just so happens he's horde.

Blizzard wrote themselves into a bit of a corner, because the only real other person with any depth is Arthas and we know how he ended up. Thats what Chris Metzen basically said at Comic Con. That they're trying to make characters more well rounded and more three dimensional. Hence the Thrall, Varian and Jaina books we're getting.

Downing the Lich King was more powerful if you invested in the story and learned about the story of how he became the Lich King and what he did during this time.
They can't do that, without shifting the focus onto these characters more. Like we've seen in alot of quests and also the cutscenes.

So, now that Thrall is WoW's main hero and the person who seems to be making the most impact, I'm intrigued as to what will happen to him and more importantly, what will happen to Azeroth in the days to come.

People moaning about Aggra and his Shaman activities, if they care to look back into his past history, it matches his previous story. All he wants is a family and peace in the world he lives.

[Magivante]

Leave the game. No one is telling you to play it.

You guys all complain about them not using enough voice actors, so they get more, and then you complain that the voice actors suck. Nice, that's like asking for a cup of coffee at a coffee shop, then throwing it in the waitress' face because it isn't light/dark enough.

I sure as hell do. Who the fuck are you to question my opinion? And what, I'm supposed to list off my RL friends' names to "satisfy" you. Because I like the story, I'm "full of Blizzard"?

News flash: Stop playing the game. It's Blizzard's game; You don't like it, get the hell out.

Book =/= Game.

Uh... no, it's not. It doesn't take a genius to find a halfway decent voice actor. With all the money they're making, they could even hire celebrities to do some of their work for them. You know, like they did with their dozen or so commercials promoting the game.

Someone who knows a skilled writer from a mediocre one. Yes, you are. If you're going to try to play that particular card then be prepared to back it up. I was talking about you knowing people who also enjoy these books. Maybe you should... you know... learn to read?

New flash: Me quitting the game won't make the story, voice actors or plot suck less. You're right, it is, yet I'm well within my rights to complain about every aspect of it. Sorry to disappoint you Mr. Dictator, but we're allowed to have opinions 'round here.

[Deleted]

It just seems like your arguing for the hell of it, Magi. Like you have your opinion, you need to respect that other people have theirs.

[thesmall001]

Everytime Blizzard introduces a new character you people shit all over them. Remember Krasus? Rhonin? Those guys were around before WoW even hit the stalls and you hipsters got all defensive over their power levels. More recently; Me'dan, Broll and indeed the new and improved Thrall. Don't criticise their writing then say you wished they'd do exactly what you hate them doing you lousy hypocrits

On topic, anyone who's read the new book will see that they actual make clear how humbled Thrall is compared to say the dragons. Sure there's a bit of a mary-sue moment towards the end where he substitutes for Deathwing but they make clear that any shaman could do what he did, Thralls only "over-poweredness" is his ability to empathise, negotiate, talk things through, comfort, support and inspire. He didn't rise to Leader of the Horde because he took the position with wicked awesome shaman skills, he took it because he was the best leader and inspired old virtues of honour amoungst his people. He is a good Shaman, one of the best but not THE best as that is not something you can measure, the measure of a shaman is his respect for the elements and his patience and understanding of them in the most pressing of times.

Stop hating just because the Alliance has a better leader in their child prince than their ruling king. Stop hating just because you have short attention spans and don't like to see one character developed upon, especially such a great character. Stop hating just because you wanna hate. Stop hating full stop or get out of my Lore

[Magivante]

It just seems like your arguing for the hell of it, Magi. Like you have your opinion, you need to respect that other people have theirs.

Having an opinion doesn't mean you're free to spout it wherever/whenever and not have someone challenge it, discuss it, etc. By the way, opinions can be wrong. For example saying "I like cheese" is an opinion that can not be argued or wrong. This person likes cheese. However, when you say "<insert author here> is an amazing writer!" it can be argued and it can be wrong. Yes, it's your opinion but I'm afraid that doesn't automatically make it right.

[Sal the Shieldhog]

Book =/= Game.

Uh... no, it's not. It doesn't take a genius to find a halfway decent voice actor. With all the money they're making, they could even hire celebrities to do some of their work for them. You know, like they did with their dozen or so commercials promoting the game.

Someone who knows a skilled writer from a mediocre one. Yes, you are. If you're going to try to play that particular card then be prepared to back it up. I was talking about you knowing people who also enjoy these books. Maybe you should... you know... learn to read?

New flash: Me quitting the game won't make the story, voice actors or plot suck less. You're right, it is, yet I'm well within my rights to complain about every aspect of it. Sorry to disappoint you Mr. Dictator, but we're allowed to have opinions 'round here.

I never said the books are the game. Good one.

And yes it is. You ask for something, they give it to you, then you throw it their faces because you don't like it. I'm sure they could, but I'm sure they're also looking for something different.

What books are we talking about? I never said anything about books. The story encompasses the whole of the Warcraft universe, including the game. Many of my guildmates, who're my RL friends, enjoy the books, as do I. However, I'm not calling them out so you can be satisfied, and then have random trolls from here contact them in-game or something. Sorry, but I like my privacy.

Yes you are right; You are allowed to have opinions. Like my mother used to say "Opinions are like assholes; Everyones got one and most of the time they stink."

One question though: If the games and books suck so horribly, as you claim, then why do you keep spending your money on this game that sucks so bad, you have nothing to do but complain on un-official forums? Just a thought. You keep buying and reading all this, but you're so mad it sucks.

[Magivante]

I never said the books are the game. Good one.

And yes it is. You ask for something, they give it to you, then you throw it their faces because you don't like it. I'm sure they could, but I'm sure they're also looking for something different.

What books are we talking about? I never said anything about books. The story encompasses the whole of the Warcraft universe, including the game. Many of my guildmates, who're my RL friends, enjoy the books, as do I. However, I'm not calling them out so you can be satisfied, and then have random trolls from here contact them in-game or something. Sorry, but I like my privacy.

Yes you are right; You are allowed to have opinions. Like my mother used to say "Opinions are like assholes; Everyones got one and most of the time they stink."

One question though: If the games and books suck so horribly, as you claim, then why do you keep spending your money on this game that sucks so bad, you have nothing to do but complain on un-official forums? Just a thought. You keep buying and reading all this, but you're so mad it sucks.

No, but you're speaking as if it were.

Something different? Oh, you mean like trying to spend as little as possible while getting as much as possible from their players? Sure.

This entire thread is about the Thrall book. If you're going to suddenly start discussing the story as a whole, you need to be a little more specific. There you go, I want some names. Privacy? Nah. You're just full of Blizzard and you know it.

Aw, how cute! Your mother is just as unoriginal as you are!

The lore/story is only one aspect of the game. Not to mention, as it stands, there is no other MMORPG out there that is even half as polished as World of Warcraft. It's not so much that I want to, but more along the lines of it's my only choice.

[yamer]

Ok...look at this. Shamans commune with the elements, druids commune with plants and animals.

Why the heck do you need a shaman to grow a tree? Why was the shaman more important to the tree than the druid?

Growing trees is druid business.


and as for thrall being the main character in WoW....Warcraft was around long before Thrall. He's just another piece of the puzzle that someone decided to god-mod

[orcshaman24]

Everytime Blizzard introduces a new character you people shit all over them. Remember Krasus? Rhonin? Those guys were around before WoW even hit the stalls and you hipsters got all defensive over their power levels. More recently; Me'dan, Broll and indeed the new and improved Thrall. Don't criticise their writing then say you wished they'd do exactly what you hate them doing you lousy hypocrits

On topic, anyone who's read the new book will see that they actual make clear how humbled Thrall is compared to say the dragons. Sure there's a bit of a mary-sue moment towards the end where he substitutes for Deathwing but they make clear that any shaman could do what he did, Thralls only "over-poweredness" is his ability to empathise, negotiate, talk things through, comfort, support and inspire. He didn't rise to Leader of the Horde because he took the position with wicked awesome shaman skills, he took it because he was the best leader and inspired old virtues of honour amoungst his people. He is a good Shaman, one of the best but not THE best as that is not something you can measure, the measure of a shaman is his respect for the elements and his patience and understanding of them in the most pressing of times.

Stop hating just because the Alliance has a better leader in their child prince than their ruling king. Stop hating just because you have short attention spans and don't like to see one character developed upon, especially such a great character. Stop hating just because you wanna hate. Stop hating full stop or get out of my Lore

I always look forward to posts like these, because it reminds me there are still warcraft fans with a proper level of respect to the much loved characters, instead of people with such short attention spans jumping on the newest hate train for the hell of it, instead of having a deeper opinion of something for themselves.
I feel the same, I actully take the time to look at certain characters in depth and understanding to get that feel of what the character is about in wow, I don't just look at the surface, well, for the characters I like for obvious reasons, I look at why a character is the way they are, and as it stands, characters like Thrall and Jaina and Greymane and maybe even Varian (without the lo'gosh side of him) are very very intresting characters when you look at them well enough.

Ok...look at this. Shamans commune with the elements, druids commune with plants and animals.

Why the heck do you need a shaman to grow a tree? Why was the shaman more important to the tree than the druid?

Growing trees is druid business.


and as for thrall being the main character in WoW....Warcraft was around long before Thrall. He's just another piece of the puzzle that someone decided to god-mod

Ok, see its dumb ass posts like this that shows up how little people bother to look into the lore and understanding of it.

Did you actully stop to think, for a moment, that the reason the earthen ring, and cenarion circle was at hyjal, was to try and help heal the world. The druids are more connected with nature, but shamans are connected with the elements, and the earth, meaning they BOTH had to play there parts in trying to heal the world. It was about more then trying to push forward the regrowth, it was about trying to fix the earth that had been broken.

And since shamans have a deeper connection to the earth then druids do... christ, why does this have to be explaned, its not hard to get your head around.

[Magivante]

I always look forward to posts like these, because it reminds me there are still warcraft fans with a proper level of respect to the much loved characters, instead of people with such short attention spans jumping on the newest hate train for the hell of it, instead of having a deeper opinion of something for themselves.
I feel the same, I actully take the time to look at certain characters in depth and understanding to get that feel of what the character is about in wow, I don't just look at the surface, well, for the characters I like for obvious reasons, I look at why a character is the way they are, and as it stands, characters like Thrall and Jaina and Greymane and maybe even Varian (without the lo'gosh side of him) are very very intresting characters when you look at them well enough.



Ok, see its dumb ass posts like this that shows up how little people bother to look into the lore and understanding of it.

Did you actully stop to think, for a moment, that the reason the earthen ring, and cenarion circle was at hyjal, was to try and help heal the world. The druids are more connected with nature, but shamans are connected with the elements, and the earth, meaning they BOTH had to play there parts in trying to heal the world. It was about more then trying to push forward the regrowth, it was about trying to fix the earth that had been broken.

Your username is "orcshaman24" and your avatar is an image of Thrall (from what I can see). You're so ignorantly biased it's not even funny.

[Deleted]

Ok...look at this. Shamans commune with the elements, druids commune with plants and animals.

Why the heck do you need a shaman to grow a tree? Why was the shaman more important to the tree than the druid?

Growing trees is druid business.

He is there for another reason, due is connection with the elements. Right now, he is the one replacing Deathwing, not by power, but by "conduit" (for the lack of better word) of Azeroth's Spirits of Life and Earth (the one missing in the Aspects family right now).

[Elian]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdWk9TzgOV4
+
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwyMB19q7ms

story writers don't know s**t about what they wrote in the past nor do they know what the hell they're talking about.
this is the kind of LORE you get from WOW. LOL.

[Lastlivingsoul]

The reason I made this poll was not to troll, incite Thrall hate or even to say the expansion sucks. I just wanted to see if there was anyone else who was fed up with hearing about a guy who stands away from the battle. All I can hope is they write some recklessness into Thrall's character soon. Kidnap Aggra, have Deathwing take a dump in his shoes ANYTHING that will piss him off.

Also the second thing Thrall needs is backbone. Hear me out but in the trailer it really felt like he was intimidated by Rag instead of saying "Bring it on Lightbright." The Lich King trailer got it right with the line "LET THEM COME, FROSTMOURNE HUNGERS."

Finally all I can say is that I hope that when they do start to pay attention that AN OLD GOD was actually pulled to the surface of the earth and what that means to the world they pay attention to the one defeating them. Being burned alive in a see of Fire is one thing but the fact that both Horde and Alliance have mild manner sleeper agents all throughout their capital cities converting the public into mind slaves should be noted.

Also a wild Deathwing appears.... whatever.

[thesmall001]

The reason I made this poll was not to troll, incite Thrall hate or even to say the expansion sucks. I just wanted to see if there was anyone else who was fed up with hearing about a guy who stands away from the battle. All I can hope is they write some recklessness into Thrall's character soon. Kidnap Aggra, have Deathwing take a dump in his shoes ANYTHING that will piss him off.

Also the second thing Thrall needs is backbone. Hear me out but in the trailer it really felt like he was intimidated by Rag instead of saying "Bring it on Lightbright." The Lich King trailer got it right with the line "LET THEM COME, FROSTMOURNE HUNGERS."

The problem here, is that you can't just have a character "get tough" or "grow a backbone". That is shitty writing and if Thrall had just disappeared after the Elemental Invasion and done nothing or not been heard of till the Deathwing fight and then suddenly showed up to kick Deathwing's scaley ass then everyone would QQ over how imba Thrall is all of a sudden. (People are saying that anyway, but the difference would be then they'd be right rather than now when they still think he's become the new Guardian of Tirisfal because they are stupid as hell.)

Characters need to develop gradually. If you've read the books you know Thrall was feeling pretty in control at the end of Wrath but started questioning whether he was right for his people. The jist of it is he's not an aggressive guy and he stepped down because maybe his people needed him to be and he couldn't. Unfortunately, that decision coupled with the world breaking kind of made him feel like a dumb-ass so now we need to see him work his way out of that and as touching as I think it would've been to see some random existing character, hell let's say it's Lor'themar Theron, coach Thrall and make him feel confident again and like he's not a dumbass I think they probably had a better idea in giving the guy a girlfriend because it's natural and that's what good story telling is all about, it's relatable and natural and flows well.

So in the new book we now know that Thrall can't become an Aspect and if you've read the book you know he doesn't do anything particularly world changing with his shaman powers. He just IS a shaman and a good one at that and that's important but by the end of it all you see that Thralls real "imba power" isn't that he can shape the world or move the oceans; it's that Thrall can change something that nobody else can and that's how people feel. Thrall is a good leaders because he inspires people to do what's right.

I get that you might be fed up with all the Thrall pushing this expansion but remember the quests and the books and the online stories are all meant to reach DIFFERENT audiences. Quests are there to explain this struggle to people who prefer to see it in action and it's just supported by dialogue. The books give you a much more detailed description of the problems he's having (elementile dysfunction) with descriptive language.

The Horde has had few to none in regards to "hero" characters since maybe Saurfang in pre-AQ and Lady Liadrin in the Sunwell patch. We are not supporting characters in an Alliance world. I'm not a Thrall fanboy. I just like good, well built, complex characters and quite frankly I'm happy to read book after book about a character I can empathise with.

[Dakho]

Chris Metzen has professed that Thrall is his favorite character (and the Horde are his favorite faction). He's essentially flawless and succeeds at everything he does. The first book about him was actually REALLY good (probably the best Warcraft book), but all his lore afterwards I've found to be pretty boring, because it's basically him winning at everything. He's the best orc, the best shaman, the best living being at this point, rivaled by maybe Malfurion. The only person I find more boring is Aggra. I mean really, if she doesn't die by the end of Cataclysm then I'll be disappointed. She has 0 intrigue or appeal, she's just this orc lady who likes Thrall. What's more, if you only get your lore from in-game then you don't even know how they know each other (plus like half the lore in general).

I would absolutely love to see Thrall die this expansion. Not out of spite or anything, I just think he's getting too powerful to be an enjoyable character and it would just be too neat for him to kill Deathwing and then come back and fix up the Horde. I'd rather he die, and the Horde break into civil war. It would actually be shocking and it would be very interesting to see where the world goes from there.

[Sal the Shieldhog]

Chris Metzen has professed that Thrall is his favorite character (and the Horde are his favorite faction). He's essentially flawless and succeeds at everything he does. The first book about him was actually REALLY good (probably the best Warcraft book), but all his lore afterwards I've found to be pretty boring, because it's basically him winning at everything. He's the best orc, the best shaman, the best living being at this point, rivaled by maybe Malfurion. The only person I find more boring is Aggra. I mean really, if she doesn't die by the end of Cataclysm then I'll be disappointed. She has 0 intrigue or appeal, she's just this orc lady who likes Thrall. What's more, if you only get your lore from in-game then you don't even know how they know each other (plus like half the lore in general).

I would absolutely love to see Thrall die this expansion. Not out of spite or anything, I just think he's getting too powerful to be an enjoyable character and it would just be too neat for him to kill Deathwing and then come back and fix up the Horde. I'd rather he die, and the Horde break into civil war. It would actually be shocking and it would be very interesting to see where the world goes from there.

The thing is, after this, he most likely won't. He fights for Azeroth and all her people, not just the orcs. And he won't get the killing blow on Deathwing, it'll be one of the Aspects (Or all of them, or maybe Chromatus) who does.

Bah, who am I kidding? I'm going to get the killing blow on Deathwing. Just because I'm a warrior, and my beard is badass. You jelly?