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  1. #21
    High Overlord NUJ's Avatar
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    ive got 4 set but havent really had a chance to test it to much.

    ill make a reply on sunday see what i get
    Last edited by NUJ; 2011-08-12 at 06:48 PM.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Illana View Post
    Ok well I guess im severely underestimating what crit rating we can achieve at the moment though i'm gonna guess that the 5% additional non displayed crit from femaledwarf is an average of your twisted/flintlocke procs throughout the fight.
    Im almost at BIS T12 gear and im at 40% raid buffed crit, and at 1.9 sec aimed shot cast time wihtout any trinket procs/RF/lust etc.
    For MM, people should definately use the free proc on either aimed shot or chimera, as u have enough time in between that ur ISS does NOT fall off.
    of if it does falll off, it wil only be for 1 second or less

  3. #23
    The Patient Judai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jappse View Post
    Well my arcanes does a lot more damage than Kill command. Should I still do Kill commands or what is your recommendation. I prefer Kill command myself.
    Kill Command is more dmg per point of focus. so for 40~ focus you should in theory do more dmg than a free Arcane Shot. at least that's what I was told and have found out.

  4. #24
    The Lightbringer Nikkaszal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judai View Post
    Kill Command is more dmg per point of focus. so for 40~ focus you should in theory do more dmg than a free Arcane Shot. at least that's what I was told and have found out.
    Except the buff lasts much, much longer than ES's cooldown, and in between ES's you're mostly Cobra'ing anyway.

    So even if you've JUST ES'd and you get a proc, it will likely be beneficial to fill with Cobra until the next ES eats the proc, then you've got much more free focus to play with which you can dump into multiple AS's.

    IE sure, you can use the proc on KC or AS and debate which will give better returns. But ES's cooldown is six seconds - just wait, use the proc on ES, use the focus you saved to shoot two AS's, win.
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  5. #25
    Just picked up 4p for my alt, never really noticed the AiS clips the auto shot timer until now (derp). How bad is it if I use the proc to cast AiSx2? Ideally I would think Chimera would be the best option since it doesn't clip the auto shot, but if Chim is down am I losing deeps by hardcasting two aimed? I've been trying to read up more on the MM rotations, but it's my alt so it's not getting top priority. People still hard cast aimed without rapid fire up yes? Feels noob asking, haven't seen many threads lately.

  6. #26
    You can, in theory hard cast aimed shot if there is either a surv hunter in the raid or a frost dk, due to the increase in ranged atk speed, HOWEVER I personally still prefer to do the arcane shot rotation. In regards to KC, the biggest problem is that your pet has to be in melee range of the boss, so if you are using the aggressive stance and switch targets when you proc, you won't even be able to use kc until your pet gtes in range, and by that time it will probly fuck up your rotation. In a perfect environment MAYBE kc would be better, but just to make it easy on yourself, use it on arc shot.
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  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeyIllidan View Post
    Just picked up 4p for my alt, never really noticed the AiS clips the auto shot timer until now (derp). How bad is it if I use the proc to cast AiSx2? Ideally I would think Chimera would be the best option since it doesn't clip the auto shot, but if Chim is down am I losing deeps by hardcasting two aimed? I've been trying to read up more on the MM rotations, but it's my alt so it's not getting top priority. People still hard cast aimed without rapid fire up yes? Feels noob asking, haven't seen many threads lately.
    as long as you don't lose ISS, serpent sting and do not have to cancel any cast (aka standing still for 5 seconds) then yes it will be a DPS increase

    seeing as ISS lasts 8 seconds this situation is going to be highly unlikely and you'd be better off using the proc on a KC and hardcasting aimed with the focus you save (or arcane if moving)

    also KC will always be better unless it's bethtilac where there isn't something your pet can chew on the entire fight.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Illana View Post
    as long as you don't lose ISS, serpent sting and do not have to cancel any cast (aka standing still for 5 seconds) then yes it will be a DPS increase

    seeing as ISS lasts 8 seconds this situation is going to be highly unlikely and you'd be better off using the proc on a KC and hardcasting aimed with the focus you save (or arcane if moving)

    also KC will always be better unless it's bethtilac where there isn't something your pet can chew on the entire fight.
    incorrect, u have just enought time to cast 2 hard casted aimed shot.

    Infact, ive seen many times where Master marksman procs then 4pc bonus.
    So right after my 2 steady shots, I use my MMM proc, hard cast aimed shot, then another aimed shot (If Chimera is on CD), squeeze in 2 steadys just in time before it runs out.


    If you have 4 pc, then u should have enough haste that ur aimed shot should be 2 seconds or below. If not i suggest u start reforging mastery into haste.

  9. #29
    I'd say go with Arcane Shot personally

  10. #30
    As mm, i'd always try to use the proc on a CS if possible, if not i prefer KC because there has been times i've gotten a double procs and getting a free CS and free kill command (can we say focus capping) and i just spammed arcane. Honestly, I'd prefer not to lock out my auto shot because of this and im not gonna Aimed shot when i get the proc. Plus it feels smoother. And i don't risk getting push backs or interrupted when casting for 2 seconds Almost every fight has alot of movement involved. But it all boils down to play style so plz take what i say with a grain of salt.
    I want to have a child and use it as a pulling tool in dungeons.

  11. #31
    If you are SV, no question need to be asked, just keep your normal rotation. DONT wait for explosive shot by spamming cobra shot, cuz if you reach 100 focus (and you'll probably will) and keep casting cobra shot, basicly mean your a bad hunter. But, if explo is almost off cd and you wont reach 100 focus, go ahead and wait for it. Its only a matter a second and how much focus you have.

    For aimed shot dumber MM, even if aimed shot deal more dmg then KC, in practice it doesnt work so well to use the free proc on aimed shot. Let say you are at 50+ focus, get a the proc for tier and get the proc from MMM. You'll reach 100 focus, which is bad. And you'll have to double SS to keep your ISS up. So you'll basicly stay at 100 ofocus for about 10 sec maybe more. At this point you'll likely have 1 option left, spamming arcane shot and if you hard cast aimed shot, you mostlikely use the aimed shot glyph instead of the arcane shot one and by spamming arcane shot you lose dps, kinda.
    If your normal rotation is arcane shot dumb, just like SV, no need to ask what to do, just keep a normal rotation with 1 extra arcan shot.

    By using KC, even if its less dmg, you can keep a normal rotation and only deal with 1 more gcd. Also remember that the proc doesnt have a internal CD, which mean it can proc from consecutive auto-shot. First proc you go KC, if it proc again in less then 6 sec, then go for a hard cast aimed shot.
    I have logs of an attempt on rag where i got the proc 6 times in 13 sec... sometime it can be a real nightmare that proc

    Sometime i just swap another piece to give up the 4piece bonus since im a aimed shot hunter and in some heavy movement fight it can screw your rotation really good.
    Last edited by Knaar; 2011-08-16 at 12:31 AM.

  12. #32
    Don't use it on either. With Surv's rotation, you can almost always hold it for Explosive Shot and dump the excess Focus with Arcane Shots afterwards. Just bleed it on Kill Command if youre about to Focus cap and you get a proc. Kill Command is better than AS in that scenario. Even with the glyph and Surv mastery, Kill Command is still better DPCT and as such is the better choice since it's free.

  13. #33
    On the upper raiding tier level MM hunters always use 4 PC t12 proc's on Kill Command (unless chim has less than 2 seconds on CD coming back up). If the boss is above 90% hp you will always use Aimed as your proc dump.

    Other than that when the boss is less than 90% hp you will NEVER be dumping proc's on Aimed Shot unless you are under blust or rapid fire.
    Last edited by dave2z; 2011-11-04 at 12:25 AM.

  14. #34
    Nice thing for Survival and BM is that it doesn't change anything. You just continue the normal cycle. using it on your signature shot, then bleed the excess Focus on Arc Shots or what not after.

    For MM, you use it on Kill Command unless you have Chimera Shot coming up in the next couple seconds.

  15. #35
    From just hitting on dummies, my arcane shot seems to be doing on average about 2k more (18-22k) than my kill command.(16-20k)

    Thought?

  16. #36
    Moderator Sj's Avatar
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    It's a matter of choice. Personally I use AS since it procs Sic Em and WQ.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by redsunrising15 View Post
    From just hitting on dummies, my arcane shot seems to be doing on average about 2k more (18-22k) than my kill command.(16-20k)

    Thought?
    You must be accidently comparing a crit Arcane Shot (routinely crit around 25k) with a noncrit Kill Command. When I crit with a Kill Command, it still crits around 30k in non BM.

  18. #38
    Arcane shot is pretty good when it comes to a huge amount of haste because you can sit there and spam it all day, its quite obvious. Kill command has a cd, however you can do a huge amount of dmg (with your pet that is) if your BM speced i believe there's a talent that resets the cd on Kill Command.

    Overall, you should just use arcane shot as MM or Survival spec and use Kill Command as BM spec.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Beefkow View Post
    Arcane shot is pretty good when it comes to a huge amount of haste because you can sit there and spam it all day, its quite obvious. Kill command has a cd, however you can do a huge amount of dmg (with your pet that is) if your BM speced i believe there's a talent that resets the cd on Kill Command.

    Overall, you should just use arcane shot as MM or Survival spec and use Kill Command as BM spec.
    Even when not BM, Kill Command is higher DPCT which is more important when a shot is free. Survival and Beast just have 6 second cooldowns on sig shots allowing you to just save them for Kill Command and Explosive Shot then dump Arcanes after, whereas Marks has a 10 second on Chimera Shot. It's worth dumping it on a Kill Command if you have more than 2 seconds left on Chimera Shot due to how the Marks rotation is structured, higher DPCT, and the fact that Kill Command doesn't interrupt the Improved Steady Shot counter, thus allowing it to be used immediately.
    Last edited by Bullettime; 2011-11-04 at 04:41 AM.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Amorise View Post
    You must be accidently comparing a crit Arcane Shot (routinely crit around 25k) with a noncrit Kill Command. When I crit with a Kill Command, it still crits around 30k in non BM.
    30k? are you orc?

    mine are 23-25k tops. and on rag they can get parried

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