Prot issues: Can't hold aggro, losing groups. WTF am I doing wrong?

[Jeleh]

Put up a skull and tell dps that target is to die first, build some aggro then start tabbing.

[Kaeleena]

DPS threat scales better than tank threat. Vengeance only works when your dps give it time to stack. The time required for vengeance to stack is longer in 5 mans than raids. If DPS are pulling threat off of you, it's generally because they're not doing what they're supposed to.

[Lidd]

Respeccing/reglyphing should never be the answer when you need to run Heroics, unless there is a reason to do glyph/spec that way for raids. However having a Hit/on use +damage trinket and a couple hit/mastery or hit/expertise off pieces is entirely viable.

You can blow trinket on one pull, next pull pop wings, next pull dp/inq, rinse repeat.

Either that or befriend a hunter/rogue that knows how to md/tot on trash packs. On my hunter MD is up just about every trash pack doing za/zg and I use it every time, because the min range issues makes pulling agro a huge dps decrease (even if its just to FD). They should make dks/warriors lose 20% damage when they hold the threat lead in a non-tank spec. That would fix the issue. Oh wait, they could just do that if they stop facerolling for a few seconds.

/2 Tank LF Hunter/Rogue to MD/Tot through 7 za/zg's (14k+ plz)

Amazing how many replies you'd get....

[Prophaniti]

This is my macro..I use it at the start of every random..

/p please give me a few seconds to pick up large packs of mobs before dpsing them. It will make the healer happy and make for a much smoother, faster run...ty

and then if someone thinks omen is just there for the pretty colors, I let them tank

[Deleted]

Yeah, sometimes it's just like that... Glyphed Avengers Shield miss, HotR miss, /wrist

[jimmy valmer]

i was also having problems but i reforged to hit and expertise cap. I lost a big chunk of stats there, however. We have so many cooldowns. If you rotate them correctly, its not an issue. Because vengance is gay in 5 mans, hit and expertise become viable.

[Oragan]

I would do a few things, first of all on the pull.

1. If you got spare holy power get inqusition up before you attack
2. Don't use avengers shield from miles away wait till your closer so you can hit them again 1.5sec later, as ranged like to start dpsing the second you hit em, and if they goto walk awhile its time your losing threat.
3. Make sure to get some nameplate threat addon so as soon as a name plate goes orange you can switch to it to keep aggro
4. Use wings on bigger packs, thiers on point in having wings on cd if people are deing to aggro.

Spec wise I would change 4 things.
1. Take out glyph of Focused shield as only good for bosses in 5 mans you want to hit an many adds as possible, hitting 3 adds is better then 1.
2. Take both points out of Eternal Glory, since the WoG nerf, unless your healer is shit you won't be using wog as much
3. Take both points out of Guarded by the Light, the only time you really use WoG is at low health so there is no chance for the overheal proc.
4. Take both points out of improved Judgment, put em into Eye for an Eye, 2/3 into Rule of Law and 1/2 into Hallowed Ground


Also don't gem stamina, you want at least 52% block before you start gemming pure stam.

Yellow sockets should be +40 Mastery
Red sockets should be +20 Parry and +20 Mastery
Blue sockets should be +20 Mastery and +20 Stam

[Deleted]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/malfurion/Trinimac/simple

There is armory.

I think I found the problem. Cows smell so bad that no mob wants to spend time around them!

Dumb dps hitting the wrong targets too early is an eternal problem. But a few things to think about. Using Hammer of the Righteous too sparingly? Using Seal of Light instead of Seal of Truth? Not enough hit/exp causing your attacks to miss constantly? Are you a clicker/keyboard turner and can't keep up with the keybound dps? Also no points on Hallowed Ground and using Glyph of Focused Shield both make aoe tanking more difficult.

[Raeli]

I think it's mostly been covered by other posters already, but make sure you are using your AoE Rotation - Inq and HotR not SotR and CS, also popping AW and using DP to get Inq up right from the pull can help. Having name plates with aggro based colouring helps a lot too, so you can see and switch to targets you are loosing aggro on - I do tab target through mobs a fair bit too if people are spreading DPS, if I loose aggro, that's what my two taunts are for.

[Zankoku]

If its any melee dps class that immediately pulls threat, throw a simple HoP on them, and watch them jump around doing NO THREAT for awhile. Works wonders ))

[Crush]

It's been a long time since I've tanked on a paladin but I see what the problem is .... It is your group just Quick attack's the targets and it ISN'T ...

[MildCore]

I have a Theory that paladins have the worst burst threat. I base this theory on no evidence other then the fact I've never seen a Paladin able to quickly establish threat like a Warrior > Druid > new DK

As far as Trash goes I think Warriors and Druids have it best. Warrior Rend + Tclap and a Shockwave gives them a lot of time to grab threat without anyone even being able to pull. And then shield slam their lowest threat target.

I don't know about Druids but they just seem to do insane damage :P

DK's kinda stink for trash especially if their DND is on CD, but still have potential

whereas Paladins. I dunno, I see a Shield, a hammer of righteous and a consecration and I still pull 3/4 mobs off of them.



But a tip for any tank, (as long as your healer/you don't suck) Move quickly through dungeons. While the first trash pack is almost done, maybe just Stun the last living mob and move to the next pack (chain pulling). It's especially efficient because you don't give much time for your Vengeance to fall off giving you a lot more initial threat on the next pack.

Just be to interrupt/stun/use CDs on trash as efficiently as possible so your healer isn't spamming healing surge to keep you barely alive.

[Pandorox]

I had the same issue as you. Just reforge to some hit rating. 3-4% should be good enough. And you will be golden!

Just assuming this isn't happening on every single pull then you are probably just missing alot and building up close to no threat.

[Deleted]

@ Visko: Paladin's have perfectly fine AE threat, as they always have.


OT:
If the fault genuinely doesn't lie in your play, be prepared to Righteous Defense/HoP/Salvation repeat offenders. If it's a class that can aide with threat, for example I can have problems with hunters on huge pulls, then make sure they are MDing and/or feigning where necessary.

It isn't only the tank that needs to watch and adapt to the threat tables, if the DPS cba to pay attention to it, then it's their bad play.

However looking at your character, there's some fatal flaws with how it is set up. I'd suggest looking through maintankadin.org and checking the best setup for your level of content.

[Requital]

I keep losing groups because I apparently can't hold aggro.

Not really sure wtf is going on. My gear isn't bad, at least in my opinion. 356, Only 3 blues left, Yeah its not godly, but it shouldn't have a problem in heroics.

My only problem is within the first 10 seconds of a pull, worse on AoE pulls. I can hear the sounds of every trinket and cooldown within 100 yards of me popping, then the DPS goes all the fuck out the second my Avengers Shield makes contact with the first face (or after it sails past the mob, equally possible)

I spend the next 5 seconds attempting to taunt everything in the instance off the warrior/dk/wtfever it is, and either every mob in the pack dies with me standing there like a retard, or half our dps dies because I wasn't able to generate enough threat to pull it off a T12 geared DK in .05 seconds.

So, is this my problem? am I seriously doing something wrong here?

Fuck, back in Wrath if I looked at something funny I had aggro forever. I could go through one single rotation on a boss, go to the bathroom, come back and still be holding on strong. Now I cant generate aggro to save my life, more so the life of every overzealous DPS in the Random Dungeon Finder queue.

any help would be appreciated.

Use JP and buy the License to Slay you don't need all that avoidance for a Heroic what you need is Hit/Expertise while it's 100% useless in a Raid it's very very important in 5 mans. When I tank on my Warrior I use nearly 8% Hit I do good damage and no one pulls aggro.

On a more important note, Do not listen to anyone about gearing for a Raid and expect a 5 man to be smooth even tanks in full 372 with no Hit have threat issues until vengeance stacks and in a 5 man that is too long so on trash packs you just spend the entire time chasing and taunting it's awful.

5 Man tanking - Hit/Expertise is important
Raid tanking - Hit/Exp is not important

[Mokthol]

I keep losing groups because I apparently can't hold aggro.

Not really sure wtf is going on. My gear isn't bad, at least in my opinion. 356, Only 3 blues left, Yeah its not godly, but it shouldn't have a problem in heroics.

My only problem is within the first 10 seconds of a pull, worse on AoE pulls. I can hear the sounds of every trinket and cooldown within 100 yards of me popping, then the DPS goes all the fuck out the second my Avengers Shield makes contact with the first face (or after it sails past the mob, equally possible)

I spend the next 5 seconds attempting to taunt everything in the instance off the warrior/dk/wtfever it is, and either every mob in the pack dies with me standing there like a retard, or half our dps dies because I wasn't able to generate enough threat to pull it off a T12 geared DK in .05 seconds.

So, is this my problem? am I seriously doing something wrong here?

Fuck, back in Wrath if I looked at something funny I had aggro forever. I could go through one single rotation on a boss, go to the bathroom, come back and still be holding on strong. Now I cant generate aggro to save my life, more so the life of every overzealous DPS in the Random Dungeon Finder queue.

any help would be appreciated.

Part of the reason is actually in your post here, when you mentioned "back in Wrath".

You seem to have everything down right. It is mostly just because of the dps because, as you said, back in Wrath you poked something and you had instant aggro. That doesn't happen any more but some players still expect it too happen so they go all out, and they don't realize the changes. Also, if a player goes to town on something you're not actively targeting, that's their problem, as they're deliberatly not attacking something that you're not constantly generating threat on.

[ursinite101]

I'm surprised no one mentioned using Seal of Righteous on AoE packs, Maintankadin and EJ have said that this a far more effective compared to Truth on packs 4 or greater. Since I started doing this, AOE packs have been trivial, both in Raids and heroics. This makes add control on Lord Ryolith (for instance) total cake.

Since gbtl and eternal glory are practically worthless, I always out 1 point in consecration so it doesn't oom me.Ultimately though, if you dos goes wide open throttle at the pull, you will be tried and tested to hold aggro well. I always tell dps to give me a few seconds to get aggo, if they aren't scrubs then you will be good to go.

As for the pull, AS (unglyphed), Hammer, exorsism, consecrate, hammer, judge... from there 99% of the time I am good to go, just make sure you have seal of righteous when 4+ targets are up... of course, if you have a string of misses this can be a bit more.difficult. this works for me and I run with 22k dos who like to make me work, plus I am 100% avoidance gem/enchant/forged, sitting at 2% hit and 26 expertise, 371 item lvl in case you were wondering

[Requital]

I'm surprised no one mentioned using Seal of Righteous on AoE packs, Maintankadin and EJ have said that this a far more effective compared to Truth on packs 4 or greater. Since I started doing this, AOE packs have been trivial, both in Raids and heroics. This makes add control on Lord Ryolith (for instance) total cake.

Since gbtl and eternal glory are practically worthless, I always out 1 point in consecration so it doesn't oom me.Ultimately though, if you dos goes wide open throttle at the pull, you will be tried and tested to hold aggro well. I always tell dps to give me a few seconds to get aggo, if they aren't scrubs then you will be good to go.

As for the pull, AS (unglyphed), Hammer, exorsism, consecrate, hammer, judge... from there 99% of the time I am good to go, just make sure you have seal of righteous when 4+ targets are up... of course, if you have a string of misses this can be a bit more.difficult. this works for me and I run with 22k dos who like to make me work, plus I am 100% avoidance gem/enchant/forged, sitting at 2% hit and 26 expertise, 371 item lvl in case you were wondering

Seal of Righteousness does not cleave unless you have Seals of Command from the Ret tree it's a single target seal w/o Seals of Command. However if it is cleaving it's a bug because I've never seen it cleave without the Ret talent.

[Lidd]

Seal of Righteousness does not cleave unless you have Seals of Command from the Ret tree it's a single target seal w/o Seals of Command. However if it is cleaving it's a bug because I've never seen it cleave without the Ret talent.

I have to agree SoR is crap for prot. With my pally's current gearset JoR hits for 4500 whereas JoT hits for 3100 ramping to 4400 afker stacks are applied. There is no cleave with JoR as I just tested it on some dummies. If your tabbing through mobs I can see how this might be slightly more agro on the pull, but not enough to justify seal twisting imho. Basically it amounts to increasing your weakest ability by 25% for about 10 seconds.

[Guyviroth]

honestly, the dps need to play smarter. I do have this problem, in both the tank and dps roles. For tanking, I attack one target first, then Inquisition + Consecrate + whatever else. If the dps take aggro, I let them fight it out until they realise they're stupid.

As a dps, I roll mage, which is a bit OTT in the burst department. I normally wait to hit yellow threat on a target if no targets are marked (about 80% threat) before tabbing to another target, and keep doing that until adds are down. If adds are marked, I watch my aggro. Granted this results in lacking dps sometimes.