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  1. #21
    Hymn of Hope does two distinct things when it ticks: 1. increase Maximum Mana by 15%, 2. increase Current Mana by 2%. When the first effect wears off, Maximum Mana changes back and Current Mana is left alone. Example:

    I'm at 20000/1000000 mana, and I hit HoH. A tick hits me: effect 1 raises my max to 115000, effect 2 increases my current by 2% * 115000 = 3000. I'm at 23000/115000.

    Another tick hits me: effect 1 does nothing (doesn't stack), effect 2 increases my current mana again by 3000 to 26000/115000.

    Seconds later, effect 1 wears off and my max mana drops to normal. I end up at 26000/100000.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by CaseyTheRetard View Post
    Hymn of Hope does two distinct things when it ticks: 1. increase Maximum Mana by 15%, 2. increase Current Mana by 2%. When the first effect wears off, Maximum Mana changes back and Current Mana is left alone. Example:

    I'm at 20000/1000000 mana, and I hit HoH. A tick hits me: effect 1 raises my max to 115000, effect 2 increases my current by 2% * 115000 = 3000. I'm at 23000/115000.

    Another tick hits me: effect 1 does nothing (doesn't stack), effect 2 increases my current mana again by 3000 to 26000/115000.

    Seconds later, effect 1 wears off and my max mana drops to normal. I end up at 26000/100000.
    Oh ok, I thought that it would put you are the same percentage of mana as you had before effect 1 wore off. Thanks for the great explanation!

  3. #23
    Brewmaster ramennoodleking's Avatar
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    See mazi, already in the first page a question about enchants

    It's hard to say no to Yoo-Hoo chocolate drinks...the name literally beckons.
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  4. #24
    Brewmaster Mazi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ramennoodleking View Post
    See mazi, already in the first page a question about enchants
    touche noodle

  5. #25
    Great guide btw, thanks for posting this.

  6. #26
    Brewmaster Mazi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aowyn View Post
    Great guide btw, thanks for posting this.
    Thank YOU for reading it!

  7. #27
    Do you recommend Shadow priests to have Holy as off spec? What I've experienced is that I have much more mana issues as Holy, due to no set bonuses (4T11 or 2T12), compared to Discipline.

    Is Holy weak at lower gear levels or am I just doing it wrong?

    Overhealing seems to be more of a factor and I feel like I lack single target heals/absorbs. If I want to assist on tank in 10 man as Discipline, I just throw a shield, Penance or Greater Heal. As Holy, Greater Heal "feels" weaker and that's about the only spell I would consider using. Flash Heal is in my opinion only used on low HP targets that needs immediate healing.

  8. #28
    Brewmaster Mazi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    Do you recommend Shadow priests to have Holy as off spec? What I've experienced is that I have much more mana issues as Holy, due to no set bonuses (4T11 or 2T12), compared to Discipline.

    Is Holy weak at lower gear levels or am I just doing it wrong?

    Overhealing seems to be more of a factor and I feel like I lack single target heals/absorbs. If I want to assist on tank in 10 man as Discipline, I just throw a shield, Penance or Greater Heal. As Holy, Greater Heal "feels" weaker and that's about the only spell I would consider using. Flash Heal is in my opinion only used on low HP targets that needs immediate healing.
    Whether you offspec as Holy or Disc depends on a lot of things: your playstyle, your raid comp, the fight needs, etc. Even as Holy you can drop a PWS on the tank, assuming you don't have a Disc in the raid. It might be a tad weaker than Disc but it's still a completely acceptable spell to cast as Holy. It feels as though a lot of people assume PWS is just terrible as Holy and you should never use it but that's not the case, you just have to take into consideration if there's already a Disc and/or your mana. Disc gets the mana back from shielding through Rapture where Holy does not.

    Holy relies heavily on Spirit, moreso than any other healer, for regen. Disc focuses more on Int due to the nature of Rapture, etc. Make sure as Holy you are using my tricks & tips with Shadow Fiend and mana pots and just being smarter about spell choices.

    In the end you can play either spec and be perfectly viable and helpful to your raid, but the choice is yours.

  9. #29
    You CAN shield someone as Holy, but you only SHOULD shield someone if they will die faster than you can cast Flash Heal. Holy gets around half the absorb+heal (with typical spec and glyphs) from PWS that Disc does. Flash Heal will be more healing in a single GCD, even upfront before Echo has a chance to tick. FH triggers Serendipity, allowing you to follow up the cast a little faster and cheaper with GH.

  10. #30
    Brewmaster Mazi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaseyTheRetard View Post
    You CAN shield someone as Holy, but you only SHOULD shield someone if they will die faster than you can cast Flash Heal. Holy gets around half the absorb+heal (with typical spec and glyphs) from PWS that Disc does. Flash Heal will be more healing in a single GCD, even upfront before Echo has a chance to tick. FH triggers Serendipity, allowing you to follow up the cast a little faster and cheaper with GH.
    I was talking about shielding the tank, which in most cases, you're going to do this when he's at full health or low. Instant cast on a tank > casting a FH even if it's less efficient. Also, EHP is always going to be greater in a situation where someone is going to take more damage and that is why Disc is so desired.

    As Disc my PWS does 28k (+potentially 5800 Glyph heal), Disc FH does 17k, Holy PWS does 18k (3/3 Mental Agi costs 6300 mana), Holy FH in Sanctuary does 18k (5765 mana); all of this is outside of raids, but with a flask on, (strange I know). I don't really know where you're getting your half numbers from. Disc is not the Mastery stacking spec it once was and it is not all that different to cast a PWS instead of a FH as Holy compared to Disc and it's instant cast, effective HP.

  11. #31
    I'm going to agree with CaseyTheRetard here to be honest. Fheal is always better than PW:Shield, unless you are shielding for Body & Soul. Yes, they heal for about the same, but...

    - PW: Shield cannot crit
    - PW: Shield is not affected by Test of Faith
    - PW: Shield does not refresh Renew (Chakra state required)
    - PW: Shield costs more mana (34% base mana vs 28% base mana). Which is huge considering FHeal is supposed to be the most inefficient heal in the game.
    - Fheal is always available.

    The only upside is that PW: Shield can heal for more than max HP. If you really need the instant aspect, you're runnign with too few tankhealers anwyay.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazi View Post
    I was talking about shielding the tank, which in most cases, you're going to do this when he's at full health or low. Instant cast on a tank > casting a FH even if it's less efficient. Also, EHP is always going to be greater in a situation where someone is going to take more damage and that is why Disc is so desired.
    None of this contradicts what I posted, I was trying to clarify your first post which could come off as encouraging people to cast PWS as Holy - remember the primary consumers of this thread are folks who are coming from 5-mans or offspeccing and want a rough idea of what to cast. I admit I missed the situation of using PWS as Holy to pre-shield for EH.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mazi View Post
    As Disc my PWS does 28k (+potentially 5800 Glyph heal), Disc FH does 17k, Holy PWS does 18k (3/3 Mental Agi costs 6300 mana), Holy FH in Sanctuary does 18k (5765 mana); all of this is outside of raids, but with a flask on, (strange I know). I don't really know where you're getting your half numbers from. Disc is not the Mastery stacking spec it once was and it is not all that different to cast a PWS instead of a FH as Holy compared to Disc and it's instant cast, effective HP.
    My gut reaction was that Holy would get about 2/3 of Disc PWS. I used the EJ spreadsheet for numbers, release 1.9, with Chip's stats in there - 1109 mastery, 1424 haste, 506 crit - and switched it to Inner Fire. 38100 average absorb+heal for PWS, 30228 HPCT. I switched the spec to Holy, dropped the Intellect by 13% (to account for losing Enlightment) corrected the Spellpower accordingly and changed spec and glyphs for Holy: 20091 healing, 16097 HPCT. 16097/30228 = 53%, which I call around half.

    For you numbers, remember the glyph heal can crit and proc DA, so you'd expect 5800 * ( 1 + <crit%> * (1 + 30% * (1 + <shield discipline>))) total effect from the glyph which is around 7800 with 25% raid-buffed crit and 33% shield disc. So combined absorb+heal, you have 36k as Disc and 18k as Holy. Half.
    Last edited by CaseyTheRetard; 2011-07-28 at 03:25 PM.

  13. #33
    Brewmaster Mazi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danner View Post
    I'm going to agree with CaseyTheRetard here to be honest. Fheal is always better than PW:Shield, unless you are shielding for Body & Soul. Yes, they heal for about the same, but...

    - PW: Shield cannot crit
    - PW: Shield is not affected by Test of Faith
    - PW: Shield does not refresh Renew (Chakra state required)
    - PW: Shield costs more mana (34% base mana vs 28% base mana). Which is huge considering FHeal is supposed to be the most inefficient heal in the game.
    - Fheal is always available.

    The only upside is that PW: Shield can heal for more than max HP. If you really need the instant aspect, you're runnign with too few tankhealers anwyay.
    This doesn't change the fact that he was talking about assisting with tank healing, which is an entirely different boat than raid healing. Casting a FH on a tank and casting a PWS are very different things, regardless of crit, whatever. You can cast a shield and forget about it and it's going to be used, FH has a chance to overheal. So in reality, you all missed my point and didn't even read the OP's post, lol.



    Quote Originally Posted by CaseyTheRetard View Post
    For you numbers, remember the glyph heal can crit and proc DA, so you'd expect 5800 * ( 1 + <crit%> * (1 + 30% * (1 + <shield discipline>))) total effect from the glyph which is around 7800 with 25% raid-buffed crit and 33% shield disc. So combined absorb+heal, you have 36k as Disc and 18k as Holy. Half.
    You're not guaranteed that crit, so you really can't count it as straight up comparing this # vs this #, imo anyways. And 25% raid buffed crit? That's pretty a pretty high number and the only Disc Priest stacking Crit that high should be a pure tank healer which makes this entire argument null because, again, my point was assisting with tank healing on occasion as a Holy Priest without a Disc Priest in the raid, not "always cast FH never cast PWS" or "always cast PWS never cast FH."

  14. #34
    Ok, I'll use your stats: 6345 intellect and 476 crit rating provides 19.82% spell crit with raid buffs, you have 15.54 mastery for 38.85% shield discipline. Your AVERAGE glyph heal+DA will be 5800 * (1 + 19.82% * (1 + 30% * (1 + 38.85%))) = 7428. Your average PWS absorb+heal is then 35k as Disc and 18k as Holy - I apologize for calling that half.

    I know what your point was, my point is that your point wasn't clear enough for the readers of this thread that don't already know how to heal well as a Priest, and I was trying to elaborate which I did not realize you would take as a personal attack.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by CaseyTheRetard View Post

    I know what your point was, my point is that your point wasn't clear enough for the readers of this thread that don't already know how to heal well as a Priest, and I was trying to elaborate which I did not realize you would take as a personal attack.
    I'm reading this thread... I understood what she was going for. This isn't just for noobs who want to l2heal.

    I swear, these shadow priests--
    Last edited by Gradywhite; 2011-07-28 at 05:01 PM.

  16. #36
    Brewmaster Mazi's Avatar
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    Thanks Grady. That's exactly my point, and I state so in my disclaimer (this guide is for more experienced Priests, not so much beginners). I was just re-clarifying my point and countering yours, that is all. There's not need for you to get all yucky about it.

  17. #37
    Yes.... let the hate flow through you....

    But, nah, I wasn't confuzzled by the PW:S mention, and the guide, like my old Disc one, wasn't written for the dude who just hit 85.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Gradywhite View Post
    I swear, these shadow priests--
    Technically, I've only been a Shadow Priest since changing mainspecs Tuesday. So that should probably be "these damn Disc Priests."

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxi View Post
    I was just re-clarifying my point and countering yours, that is all. There's not need for you to get all yucky about it.
    Yeah, I think I overreacted there. Apologies. I'll try to get those haste numbers after work I promised you two days ago.

  19. #39
    Brewmaster Mazi's Avatar
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    No harm no foul

  20. #40
    These damn disc priests---

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