1. #1

    Shadow Stat Weights

    So after getting a little more gear I realised I was struggling to stay close to 8085, pushing 8.4k haste with ideal reforging.

    I went back to simcraft too if it was worth dropping socket bonuses for pure int. Turns out it isn't. More curious was haste still having a higher value than crit. 0.45, 0.42 respectively.

    Any idea what's up with this? Should I swap some reckless gems to potent to bring myself lower or just keep on with the haste stacking as simC suggests?

    armory in sig if anyone cares to look (keeping rings / boots reforged as they are since I'm disc on current progress)

  2. #2
    Best tip I can offer: Reforgelite.


    Simcraft is not the end all be all. Swap some haste gems for Hybrid crit or pure int.

  3. #3
    Already using reforgelite. I guess I worded my question badly;

    Is haste still better than crit past 8085 or is simcraft wrong?

  4. #4

  5. #5
    For me, in a perfect environment, crit and haste have near equal values past 8085. But once you start adding a little latency, player error and slight movement, crit pulls ahead.

    So it's safe to say that unless you are a robot playing on a NASA server, crit will likely come out ahead.

  6. #6
    What you're likely seeing is due to a current bug in simcraft, when it pulls your profile from battle.net it doesn't actually see the upgrades on each piece of gear.
    The totals you see at the bottom are grabbed from the summary section and will be correct, but the pieces themselves do not have the upgrades, so if you upgrade a piece with haste on it, it now will be used as if i wasnt upgraded, likely putting you below the 8085 haste.

    What I found is the best way to deal with it, is import your character into askmrrobot's list and then go directly to export, as simcraft profile. that profile will have the info for all the proper ilvl/stats as is on your gear. Just paste that into the section in simc over top of the gear list from the battle.net import. You can likely leave the action priority as is, unless you're going for some funky tests.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Nestar View Post
    What you're likely seeing is due to a current bug in simcraft, when it pulls your profile from battle.net it doesn't actually see the upgrades on each piece of gear.
    The totals you see at the bottom are grabbed from the summary section and will be correct, but the pieces themselves do not have the upgrades, so if you upgrade a piece with haste on it, it now will be used as if i wasnt upgraded, likely putting you below the 8085 haste.

    What I found is the best way to deal with it, is import your character into askmrrobot's list and then go directly to export, as simcraft profile. that profile will have the info for all the proper ilvl/stats as is on your gear. Just paste that into the section in simc over top of the gear list from the battle.net import. You can likely leave the action priority as is, unless you're going for some funky tests.
    Thats a useful bit of info right there

    Although, Redsparrow, bear in mind that having more than 8085 haste isn't a bad thing. If you have reforged everything you can into crit and still find yourself with a lot of haste it will still be beneficial. Haste still holds good value over 8085, just not quite as much as it does before the breakpoint. It's not like hit where it suddenly becomes worthless :P Your dots will still tick faster with each haste increase afterall.
    "I never met a miner who complained about the weather"

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Mew View Post
    For me, in a perfect environment, crit and haste have near equal values past 8085. But once you start adding a little latency, player error and slight movement, crit pulls ahead.

    So it's safe to say that unless you are a robot playing on a NASA server, crit will likely come out ahead.
    You certainly have a point there however I'm not sold on crit over haste (past 8085) yet.

    That's because while alls stats are quite close after reaching 8085 haste in a single target encounter, haste pulls ahead quite a bit if you simulate 2 targets - im my case (ilvl ~493) haste ends up at 0.48pp while crit and mastery are around 0.37pp.
    Now I'm not sure how well simulationcraft handles multiple targets but the difference seems large enough to still go for haste, since there are quite a few fights with more than one target and the stat difference on single target fights is small.

  9. #9
    Iloewe, I'm pretty sure your haste is siming so high because it thinks you're not haste capped(because SC doesn't seem to take in upgrades). ^^ I often go up to 8500 haste as a goblin to be sure the value of haste is indeed way lower than crit. Cost me so much gold but then again nothing much to do with it:O
    Last edited by Falsified; 2013-01-17 at 03:18 PM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Falsified View Post
    Iloewe, I'm pretty sure your haste is siming so high because it thinks you're not haste capped(because SC doesn't seem to take in upgrades). ^^ I often go up to 8500 haste as a goblin to be sure the value of haste is indeed way lower than crit. Cost me so much gold but then again nothing much to do with it:O

    I just ran a simulation with the latest version. I couldn't see any evidence of any such bug. My haste value is shown in the results at the correct value, and my DP is ticking the correct number of times.

    My crit is still showing to be very close to haste and i'm at 8150. This is for a single target.
    "I never met a miner who complained about the weather"

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Falsified View Post
    Iloewe, I'm pretty sure your haste is siming so high because it thinks you're not haste capped(because SC doesn't seem to take in upgrades). ^^ I often go up to 8500 haste as a goblin to be sure the value of haste is indeed way lower than crit. Cost me so much gold but then again nothing much to do with it:O
    Nope that's not the case.
    Note that for a single target simulation all stats come out more or less even and the plot shows a distinctive jump for haste at -500 haste (I'm at 8550), so it appears to be working fine. In any case I should be well over the haste "cap" even when not upgraded.

    Add a second target and haste clearly pulls ahead. Now I don't know if that's a problem with the simulation or for "real" - however I think I'll continue to stack haste as the difference for single target is small enough.
    Last edited by lloewe; 2013-01-18 at 10:35 AM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by lloewe View Post
    Nope that's not the case.
    Note that for a single target simulation all stats come out more or less even and the plot shows a distinctive jump for haste at -500 haste (I'm at 8550), so it appears to be working fine. In any case I should be well over the haste "cap" even when not upgraded.

    Add a second target and haste clearly pulls ahead. Now I don't know if that's a problem with the simulation or for "real" - however I think I'll continue to stack haste as the difference for single target is small enough.
    Sometimes theory and practice don't agree. You have the right idea here I think.

    More targets -> more dots.
    More dots -> dot damage becomes more important

    I think dots scale better with haste than they do with crit, because of things like mastery and procing talents, etc. i.e. more individual ticks is better than ticks that sometimes do double damage.
    "I never met a miner who complained about the weather"

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