Killing a warrior as a rogue !

[Pakalo]

Hey guys,

I am a sub rogue and Im doing 2's with a frost mage. We are now in the 1300 rating, with something like 30 games played. Now we starting to see many Warrior - healer combo. Warriors are our biggest problem. As a sub rogue It looks like I can't do anything against them, I keep telling my mage to kite him just like he was doing 1v1 against him so I can try to get a hand on the heal to cc and make some pressure, but everytime the warrior gets to me, 2-3 sec or so, I get screwed up half my hp. I cant vanish and stay stealth cuz of bleed. Since I started to play my rogue Warrior and some ret pals are my only weakness, and so they are in arena too. I am around 3800 resil.

I am looking for any tips/advices from some rogue that found tricks to kite or avoid being rape by warriors.

I know it's not balanced around 1v1 etc I dont want to know how to kill him, just want to stay alive long enough to do something useful !

Thank you !

[Jamber]

If you jump on the healer, the warrior WILL come after you. No self respecting warrior will try and chase a frost mage when a squishy rogue is right there. While sheeping isn't gonna be super helpful, having your mage poly the warrior while you AND the mage do damage to the healer will lighten the damage on you and also cause panic for the healer.

Main point, cc the warrior fast with stuffs, burst the healer. It's better than what's going on.

[AQrunnr]

Go duels some Warriors. Learn how to handle them. I'm not the best Rogue in the game but I do handle Warriors very well.

Sprint > CS > Hemo to bleed him, get 5 CBs, Recoup, around this time he'll come up from CS. Disarm > Slap him around a bit (BS/Hemo > Evis/SnD depending on your spec and use choice). Vanish when disarm is up > Reopen > (Keep recoup running), Prep (Save your next Disarm for his Bladestorm) and continue... By this point he'll be pretty low so start looking for him to use Zerker Rage. Right when he uses it, Shiv that shit off and don't let him heal. If he's to quick for ya and gets his heal off... Not much you can do. Good thing you still have Vanish/Evasion (Only use it when necessary)/Blind/Disarm/Sprint/Etc... you get the point.

Edit: Running the comp you do, I would suggest CC'ing the healer and bursting down the DPS in a Smoke Bomb. It's much easier. And you will be trained when doing this but cmon. You have more ways to avoid trouble than the Pope.

[Pakalo]

Thank you, I know I have much to learn from other class skill, that could help me a lot too, But just for my info, Is there any "good" time to use my trinket or is it always situationally, like in most other fights?

[Anthraxxxis]

Go duels some Warriors. Learn how to handle them. I'm not the best Rogue in the game but I do handle Warriors very well.

Sprint > CS > Hemo to bleed him, get 5 CBs, Recoup, around this time he'll come up from CS. Disarm > Slap him around a bit (BS/Hemo > Evis/SnD depending on your spec and use choice). Vanish when disarm is up > Reopen > (Keep recoup running), Prep (Save your next Disarm for his Bladestorm) and continue... By this point he'll be pretty low so start looking for him to use Zerker Rage. Right when he uses it, Shiv that shit off and don't let him heal. If he's to quick for ya and gets his heal off... Not much you can do. Good thing you still have Vanish/Evasion (Only use it when necessary)/Blind/Disarm/Sprint/Etc... you get the point.

Edit: Running the comp you do, I would suggest CC'ing the healer and bursting down the DPS in a Smoke Bomb. It's much easier. And you will be trained when doing this but cmon. You have more ways to avoid trouble than the Pope.

Best statement ever.

[Daerken]

Go and watch the video Neilyo posted on WCM. It contains commentary by him and shows you how to flawlessly beat a warrior 1v1. This doesn't help THAT much in arenas, but you should really kill the Warrior and not the healer.

[Pakalo]

Go and watch the video Neilyo posted on WCM. It contains commentary by him and shows you how to flawlessly beat a warrior 1v1. This doesn't help THAT much in arenas, but you should really kill the Warrior and not the healer.

Can u link this to me? I can't find it plz.

[Alvito]

Best advice when struggling with different classes is to go to their forums on here or arena junkies and see all the threads of ppl saying they cant beat different classes and why. Then look at what ppl tell them to do and keep them from doing those things. I would suggest silience and cc chains on the healer as you burn the warrior. If your mage team mbr cant burn the warrior down by himself much less with your help then you need to get a better mage.

[Redfoo]

at first warriors may seem tough to beat, as tanking their insane damage is near impossible.
Learning about warriors and learning to control them is the first step. i am able to 1v1 warriors.

not 2200+warriors yet.

[Alvito]

Dont forget smoke bomb and deep freeze are your best friend with your comp if done well you can nuke down whatever you trap in there in one burn cycle. Then its 2v1 and should be an easy win.

[Korgoth]

Just duel some warriors and figure out how its done. A good rogue will never lose a 1v1 to a warrior, and this translates hugely into 2v2. Against war/healer you should be going hard on the warrior while CCing the healer then smoke bombing when he has no trinket and you have a 5 point kidney shot. Get a war in 5 point kidney + smoke bomb with no trinket, hes dead.

[Slickx]

if your frost mage is decent you should be able to kill the warrior in one smokebomb

[ReaverGX]

as a Warrior I shouldn't be giving advice buuuuuut...(I do Arms as pvp for the insane easy-ness)
Some crap I do and I can beat most 1v1
-Rogues/feral druids feel the wraith of retaliation because of quicker attack speeds.
-Enraged Regen not sure if you have anything that can stop that but it gives ~35% of health I think (more with talents or maybe 35% is with talents meh)
-Improved Hamstring so I can stop your movement to give the healer room
-Throwdown + Deadly Calm can mean that you are [explotive deleted] I personally try to use that has my target gets lower on health. Try and anticipate when and disarm.
-Bladestorm I know it is a damage CD, however when fighting frost mages and they iceblock I try and time it so I can bladestorm when they are going to Nova.
-Overpower is your enemy, when you pop Evasion to dodge all my attacks Overpower becomes usable damn near the whole duration of your CD and if I have 3 stacks of my buff from Mortal Striking it can hurt you more than help you. I would recommend just trying to get some distance/disarm.

Can't think of other stuff I do right now but that is some of the stuff.

[asb]

A freecasting mage should be doing a lot of damage. With the CC you have available, you should be able to bring that warrior down really quickly while fully controlling his healer. Use sap, blind, CS, poly, RoF, and smokebomb. You can even deep freeze him if you need to. If you actually land a CS (I wouldn't expect much juking at 1300), you guys would have to be doing something really wrong to score a kill in that time. Make sure you understand different healers' cooldowns and figure out what you'll do to counter each one. For example, you can smokebomb a divine shield.

While he's hitting you, don't be afraid to use your cooldowns. Use Combat Readiness once he's started on you. Trinket a throwdown. Make sure you do something about recklessness. Vanish, evasion, kindney shot, disarm. Just don't let him beat on you with that up.

as a Warrior I shouldn't be giving advice buuuuuut...

- Attacking a retaliation head-on is wrong. They should be hiding, running, using CC, or at least just hitting you from behind.
- Enraged regeneration can't be removed. Since berserker rage is off the GCD, you have to be really slow to have it shivved off before you got ER up. You will definitely get to use this against rogues. Ferals can PS clone your regen though, to make you immune to much of the healing it would provide.
- If a rogue/mage team is focusing your healer, the rogue will probably just vanish your imp. hamstring to keep pressure up.
- Deadly Calm is just a simple damage cooldown. A stun or vanish can effectively waste it.
- The rogue will be peeling for that mage while you focus him. He should be disarming that storm and immediately crippling you again.
- Evasion is good for negating your cooldowns, not general survivability. Only using overpower during deadly calm or recklessness means the cooldown itself is actually doing very little. If dismantle is down for a bladestorm, evasion wastes that quite nicely too. Also, while a warrior mashes overpower, he's not refreshing rend. I've been able to succesfully restealth against warriors because of it.

Just figured I should give the rogue perspective on these tactics, since that's what this thread is about.

[Jubite]

Dont disarm bladestorm if mage isnt close.
Use fient.

Your two disarms should be used on retaliation to negate it and reck if you are unable to control otherwise.

Sap War and open on healer. If he pops an enrage to get out. Shiv it then burst warrior. He can no longer use enraged regen.

Dont small stun him for s n g's, go big or go home. Small stuns heal more than youd put out.

ToT Shatter combos.

Rogue is meant to control, not burst. You have your 8 seconds a minute to pretend you're a dk.

For those of you suggesting to vanish warriors major CDs, that doesnt help his mage. Competent War/Heals will sit on mage to prevent freecasting. Your mage wont appreciate if you vanish the reck

[ReaverGX]

*snip*
*snip countering stuffs*

First rule of combat! never expect anything to go as planned! :P

I just gave a list of the stuff warriors have at their disposal. The more you know what a class can do the better your odds of winning. I personally always focus rogues (assuming I have their position) because they can be a pain if you let them get away.Shit with most mages you can just Heroic Leap on them to get them to use blink than charge/intercept. I'm not an awesome pvper I (assume i'm) just getting lucky when I do shit :P

[Illana]

rogue/mage you can reset the fight endlessly since you have so much control.

My advice to you is: reset the fight a lot of times against a bad warrior/healer team so you can get the feel of it (even if you could just win easily in a smoke bomb).

Once you comfortable with resetting fights warrior/healer teams are incredibly easy since if any of you get low you can just run away and heal to full, the other team can't dot his and you'll eventually wear them down.

[Sheepsy]

Combat Readiness. Evasion. Stun. Disarm. Shadowstep charges.