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  1. #1
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    Question How's the strict 10-man Rag HM progression going?

    Since we have yet to see a 10-man strict kill on Ragnaros HM, I was curious to find out how the progression is going for the 140+ strong army of 10-man guilds that currently are at 6/7. I checked through half a dozen pages on this forum and no mention, so figured I'd make a thread to check if anyone knows where the guilds are, and when we can expect a 10-man strict Ragnaros HM World First.
    Sabïna of Whipe @ Frostmane EU, no longer playing. Youtube Channel
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  2. #2
    Well you guys have a World #6 kill on Majordomo, so.... how's it going on Rag?

    Do you feel that group composition is keeping your from a kill?
    If so, do you feel more gear will make up for not having a "perfect" group composition?
    Or is it just the length of the encounter and the miniscule room for mistakes that is keeping you from a kill?
    Have you dropped to 2 heals to increase DPS?

  3. #3
    i expect a kill within 1-3 weeks, because drops may push or stumble groups in progression.

    learning the fight is how a hardmode should be: learning phase by phase, minute by minute - in order to do the same fight over and over perfectly to kill it finally.
    (reminds me somehow of illidan progression)

    total contrary would have been alakir or halfus for example - if you grip the start and progress the phases, it gets easier.

  4. #4
    Pandaren Monk
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    Phase 3 doesn't look too difficult, but P2 is insanely difficult with two healers and the inability to burst them all down.

  5. #5
    We started 2 healing it last week. It seemed impossible to do any other way. Right now it seems class comp is hugely important. As a frost dk I could put out 600-700k dmg on adds using the paragon strat. But they didn't die fast enough. So we had a hunter go boomkin. He could do barely more than I could to them, but it wasn't enough. So we will probably have him go on his frost dk this week. We also have been able to aoe down a group or 2 of them, but then someone is too close to rag and can't get away fast enough when world in flames hits front. Or the lava wave that hits during the second adds aoe part.

    It's just stupid that classes like boomkins and f dks can literally do 2x the damage to them. I wish our hpal would go on his boomkin, hunter on his boomkin, warlock on his dk, and our disc priest doesn't have to go shadow. Then we have 2 boomkins, 2 frost dks. Adds would melt. But they don't want to lose the hpal. Or our resto druid learns boomkin. But they don't want to lose a resto druid.
    Last edited by Murava; 2011-08-02 at 03:11 PM.
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  6. #6
    I find it a bit strange that the OP (Who got world 6 domo, 29 beth) is asking how things are going.. since nearly everyone here is not in a position to comment. You should be telling us how you're going.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Murava View Post
    We started 2 healing it last week. It seemed impossible to do any other way. Right now it seems class comp is hugely important. As a frost dk I could put out 600-700k dmg on adds using the paragon strat. But they didn't die fast enough. So we had a hunter go boomkin. He could do barely more than I could to them, but it wasn't enough. So we will probably have him go on his frost dk this week. We also have been able to aoe down a group or 2 of them, but then someone is too close to rag and can't get away fast enough when world in flames hits front. Or the lava wave that hits during the second adds aoe part.

    It's just stupid that classes like boomkins and f dks can literally do 2x the damage to them. I wish our hpal would go on his boomkin, hunter on his boomkin, warlock on his dk, and our disc priest doesn't have to go shadow. Then we have 2 boomkins, 2 frost dks. Adds would melt. But they don't want to lose the hpal. Or our resto druid learns boomkin. But they don't want to lose a resto druid.
    Have you guys considered NOT AEing them down? Just stay spread out, and keep the elementals away from eachother so they don't buff eachother and hit for 500k. Just have everyone responsible for taking down the one that is on them. Kind of like Method's strategey, which IMO is how the Devs inteded the fight to go.

  8. #8
    I expect to down this boss with my guild the upcoming reset, or latest in the next one.

    We have not swapped any classes around and it has been tricky but feels really doable, the big question is if the enrage timer will be another struggle...

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by TyrianFC View Post
    I find it a bit strange that the OP (Who got world 6 domo, 29 beth) is asking how things are going.. since nearly everyone here is not in a position to comment. You should be telling us how you're going.
    Those are 10-man ranks, and not 10+25. I see little reason to compare the two brackets because of the inevitable difficulties of making them equal in difficulty. The Domo kill was decent because we skipped content (not by choice, but by accident, but still, we did), which made our ranks on the other kills suffer. Our HM kills, not counting the two you mentioned, range up towards #86, while our normal kills are almost touching the thousand. We're definitely not contesters for any first kill on Ragnaros, or any other for that matter. Besides, we're not even a hardcore guild, so we don't put in the hours on Ragnaros others guilds are.

    While I don't mind the 25's getting all the glory, considering 25's has been where the action is for many years now, I've found the lack of any information regarding 10's a bit disheartening. Even on the WoW-EU forums there's complete silence, and any thread that mentions 10's transforms into a flamewar between the two sizes. So I figured I'd try here, to see if people knows some people, or feel they wish to discuss their own progress, brickwalls, cakewalks, and so on.
    Sabïna of Whipe @ Frostmane EU, no longer playing. Youtube Channel
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  10. #10
    What did your progression path for the first 6 bosses look like? One of the most interesting things to come out of 10s in Firelands (imo) is the best boss order (FOR HEROIC 10s ONLY) and the healers/tanks needed for several of the fights.

    For Heroic 10's, we went: Shannox -> Rhyolith -> Alysrazor -> Baleroc -> Majordomo killed -> Working on Beth'tilac last, before Rag obviously. Unlike what you implied, we consciously did this order and opted to do Beth'tilac last. In hindsight it was the right move - as Baleroc and Majordomo took only one full night each to down. For several of these fights we settled on:

    1 tank: Rhyolith, Baleroc
    2 healers: Alysrazor, Baleroc, (And presumably Ragnaros)

    Putting a lot of faith in those two healers. Fine for guilds that have them, but GL 3 healing Baleroc (and meeting the enrage - especially if you dont have Hunters/Rogues to juggle post-enrage tanking) if you dont.

    So when people ask "What order should we do our Heroic 10s in?" I think a few questions people need to ask themselves are:

    - Just how good are the two healers you have, which you'd take to Heroic Baleroc? What classes are they?
    - With the raidcomp you plan to take to Majordomo: Do you have a strong Raid Cooldown makeup available for Scorpion Phases?
    - Who would be getting the "AOE + Soaking downstairs" job on Heroic Beth'tilac? What class are they?
    Last edited by TyrianFC; 2011-08-02 at 04:34 PM.

  11. #11

  12. #12
    All of their other kills are in 25 man, so Rag probably was too, WowProgress just hasn't caught up yet.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by ruim View Post

    Edit: Nvm they got a lot 25 kills :P

  14. #14
    Well, if you look at their armory feed they got 2 397 items and 1 391 helm token, so maybe this kill was on 10 man?

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Barth View Post
    Well, if you look at their armory feed they got 2 397 items and 1 391 helm token, so maybe this kill was on 10 man?
    Well, even if that was the case, you can't call them a "strict 10-man guild".
    In addition, WoWProgress now uses a new system to distinguish between 10 and 25. For a registration of a 25-man progression one needs to have WoWProgress scan the armories of some number of people greater than 10.

  16. #16
    Brewmaster
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    Quote Originally Posted by TyrianFC View Post
    What did your progression path for the first 6 bosses look like?
    We went:
    Shannox -> Rhyolith -> Beth -> Domo -> Alysrazor -> Baleroc

    First three by choice. On the last day of the reset the guild started clearing the remaining bosses on normal, when I got into the raid it was only Domo+Ragnaros left, and we decided to try Domo on HM. We noticed we had a real chance of downing him that evening, so we focused on that instead of just clearing it all and calling it a night. So while other guilds (except the really pro ones) were stuck progressing on bosses behind us we basically sniped that kill. We went the standard progressive route after the reset after (bird -> baleroc).

    But back on topic, we lack druids and hunters, and we've only one DK (tank, no frost AoE for us!), we can't really AoE á la Paragon style. And while learning a new fight I tend to favor 3 healers, if the encounter is doable with 2, to survive and get as much training as possible per pull. I'm not the raidleader in our guild, so I've no idea if we will actually do two or three healers when we finally down him, but for now we have those training wheels on the bicycle, sort of speaking.

    From what I've gathered so far, as long as you've got a proper tactic, and people don't stand in fire (happens to us A LOT), it's definitely doable. I can say this boss is the one I've spent most wipes on, I think we've reached a hundred now, or at least close to it. Even when we got realmfirst Al'Akir, basically our highlight in the previous tier, we didn't spend this many wipes to get the loot.
    Sabïna of Whipe @ Frostmane EU, no longer playing. Youtube Channel
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  17. #17
    Have you guys considered NOT AEing them down? Just stay spread out, and keep the elementals away from eachother so they don't buff eachother and hit for 500k. Just have everyone responsible for taking down the one that is on them. Kind of like Method's strategey, which IMO is how the Devs inteded the fight to go.
    this requires to pull ridiculous HPS as seed detonation hits for a lot (even if your raid is far away from them) and each add hits for 20K unbuffed. As you have to 2 heal the fight, spreading makes AOE heals inneficient, and you ruin your mana spamming greater on the raid, as adds can't go down fast enough to avoid people getting hit by them.
    I think Molten Elementals is the main problem of every guild that has not the appropriate roster to AOE them down (2 boomkins or sp+boomkin+hunter+dk..)
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  18. #18
    Funny how 2-healing is the more viable option for more than half the fights in Firelands.

  19. #19
    Why shouldn't 2 healers be the standard? It scales better with the usual healer count in both 5 man dungeons and 25 man raids than using 3 healers would.

  20. #20
    Herald of the Titans Yilar's Avatar
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    Lord Rhy: 2 healers
    Alysrazor: 2 healers
    Baleroc: 2 healers
    Ragnaros: 2 healers

    Baleroc: 1 tank
    Majordomo: 1 tank
    Lord Rhy: 1 tank

    I'm giving up my 100% raid spot to allow dps to fill in, feels weird

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