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  1. #21
    You could just as easily detonate and hit the crap on the same pile, yet still spread out. That way everyone is left with an add at ~30% that has all the DoTs etc crap rolling. One stun, root, whatever every class has and they die without anyone taking damage.

    Besides, hunter should be doing more damage than a DK there.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Murava View Post
    We started 2 healing it last week. It seemed impossible to do any other way. Right now it seems class comp is hugely important. As a frost dk I could put out 600-700k dmg on adds using the paragon strat. But they didn't die fast enough. So we had a hunter go boomkin. He could do barely more than I could to them, but it wasn't enough.
    The boomkin is 10 ilvls lower then the frost DK, but does roughly the same or more damage to the adds. Then multi dots as we're spreading out. The boomkin also brings AOE COE, thus improving our raid dps to adds by 8%.

    Quote Originally Posted by Murava View Post
    So we will probably have him go on his frost dk this week.
    We will probably have our WARLOCK​ go on his frost DK this week

    Quote Originally Posted by zYN View Post
    Besides, hunter should be doing more damage than a DK there.
    Yes, but giving up a hunter for a undergeared boomkin seems to be a huge help.
    Last edited by Danthegreat1; 2011-08-03 at 12:24 AM.

  3. #23
    @ Patriarch from <Damage per Second>

    You *could* try having your Warlock go Demonology, save his Demon form for the adds and enjoy the over-the-top damage.

    Per average they are ranked higher than Frost DKs (or so according to the data on MMO-Champ). Personally my guild doesn't use one since we don't have any active warlocks but back in the days when we did the AoE burst was insane. More so they could do good single target dmg as well.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    @ Patriarch from <Damage per Second>

    You *could* try having your Warlock go Demonology, save his Demon form for the adds and enjoy the over-the-top damage.

    Per average they are ranked higher than Frost DKs (or so according to the data on MMO-Champ). Personally my guild doesn't use one since we don't have any active warlocks but back in the days when we did the AoE burst was insane. More so they could do good single target dmg as well.
    I personally don't see how that's possible. Our lock uses his pet for damaging the adds, but even if he was to hellfire 2-3 ticks before porting as the paragon locks do, he wouldn't do as much as a frost DK or a boomkin. His pet averages 300-400k damage to adds, the boomkin and frost dk are averaging 700-800k.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Raphtheone View Post
    Since we have yet to see a 10-man strict kill on Ragnaros HM, I was curious to find out how the progression is going for the 140+ strong army of 10-man guilds that currently are at 6/7. I checked through half a dozen pages on this forum and no mention, so figured I'd make a thread to check if anyone knows where the guilds are, and when we can expect a 10-man strict Ragnaros HM World First.
    how are you guys doing?

    my group is currently working on phase2, as pretty much most 10 mans probably

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Danthegreat1 View Post
    We will probably have our WARLOCK​ go on his frost DK this week
    Woops yea thats what I meant. I say it in my last paragraph.

    Also, does this mean no alt raid? maybe a main raid on sunday? yay

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    You *could* try having your Warlock go Demonology, save his Demon form for the adds and enjoy the over-the-top damage.

    Per average they are ranked higher than Frost DKs (or so according to the data on MMO-Champ). Personally my guild doesn't use one since we don't have any active warlocks but back in the days when we did the AoE burst was insane. More so they could do good single target dmg as well.
    He already is demo for the fight. And yeah sure demon form the first set of adds would help kill them fast, but then what? The next ones won't die in time if we need such a long cd to kill them.

    The data on mmo-champ has nothing to do with this very specific ranged aoe burst burst while moving phase.
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  7. #27
    You could just as easily detonate and hit the crap on the same pile, yet still spread out. That way everyone is left with an add at ~30% that has all the DoTs etc crap rolling. One stun, root, whatever every class has and they die without anyone taking damage.
    That's what we were planning to do as we just can't kill the elementals fast enough to avoid deaths on each spawn.. That's kind of annoying for a guild that can't adapt it's line uptoo much to need so specific kind of AOE burst :/
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  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by zYN View Post
    Besides, hunter should be doing more damage than a DK there.
    If this was directed at me, I'm not sure why. We didn't have a hunter switch to a dk, we had him switch to a boomkin, which is most certainly better at aoeing the adds. We might have a demo lock switch to a frost dk, which from what we can tell, is going to end up with better dmg on adds.
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by morsei View Post
    how are you guys doing?

    my group is currently working on phase2, as pretty much most 10 mans probably
    You know when you PUG a raid, everyone gets on vent, and during combat there's always someone who says "I need <insert whatever>!", and you have the tools to provide it, but no idea who "I" am? You've no sig and there's no mention of who you are in any post you've made. There's only one lvl85 char in EU named Morsei, and his guild is 2/7N. On the US side there's two lvl85's, and nvm found you (typed as I went along). Could've made it easier for me identifying you though, helps out knowing whether or not you're "supposed" to be in front of us on the encounter or not.

    One of our raiders (my brother, actually) made a post on the official wow-EU Raids and Dungeons forums with questions and discussion about Ragnaros 10HM, started after yesterdays raid (it's almost 10AM in Sweden now, so still a young thread), and despite some trolls and non-constructive postings (official forums at its finest), it seems to have some potential for those stuck at specific stuff at Ragnaros HM. Right now the discussion is about handling p2, and there's at least one poster in that thread who have actually killed Ragnaros 10HM trying to answer the questions provided. With some luck this thread might help people out, and feel free to partake in the discussion. If you're in the US, this thread will probably be just as fine (unless you've got a US counterpart, don't really browse your forums).

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2491499882

    Btw, how fast did you go for Shannox HM in the first HM-reset? Did you start raiding as soon as realms went up, and how long did it take to get a kill? Asking because of your sweet rank on the kill.
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  10. #30
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    The mainproblem my Guild is facing right now is getting p3 done without having a third meteor constantly. P2 is easy repeatable with correct timers and good AEO DPS + proper cooldownroation. Not really sure how hard p4 is actually, haven't been there long enough to see the softenrage of dreadflames is a problem in 10man. But i guess some of the "hardcore" 10man raidguild will kill him soon.

  11. #31
    im pretty sure he has already been killed in 10 man HC at this point. and since the gear is all the same i don't why it would matter like it did to some ppl back in wotlk.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by TyrianFC View Post
    What did your progression path for the first 6 bosses look like? One of the most interesting things to come out of 10s in Firelands (imo) is the best boss order (FOR HEROIC 10s ONLY) and the healers/tanks needed for several of the fights.

    For Heroic 10's, we went: Shannox -> Rhyolith -> Alysrazor -> Baleroc -> Majordomo killed -> Working on Beth'tilac last, before Rag obviously. Unlike what you implied, we consciously did this order and opted to do Beth'tilac last. In hindsight it was the right move - as Baleroc and Majordomo took only one full night each to down. For several of these fights we settled on:

    1 tank: Rhyolith, Baleroc
    2 healers: Alysrazor, Baleroc, (And presumably Ragnaros)

    Putting a lot of faith in those two healers. Fine for guilds that have them, but GL 3 healing Baleroc (and meeting the enrage - especially if you dont have Hunters/Rogues to juggle post-enrage tanking) if you dont.

    So when people ask "What order should we do our Heroic 10s in?" I think a few questions people need to ask themselves are:

    - Just how good are the two healers you have, which you'd take to Heroic Baleroc? What classes are they?
    - With the raidcomp you plan to take to Majordomo: Do you have a strong Raid Cooldown makeup available for Scorpion Phases?
    - Who would be getting the "AOE + Soaking downstairs" job on Heroic Beth'tilac? What class are they?
    In our Heroic 10 we went - Shannox > Rhyiloth > Baleroc > Majordomo > Working on Alys > Then Beth > Finally Rag

    Baleroc/Domo took a night each.

    2 Healed Shannox/Rhyiloth/Baleroc/Domo & 2 healing Alys then probably Beth/Rag too. 1 Tanked Domo/Rhy/Baleroc

  13. #33
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    How does "strict 10man" matter anymore? You get the same gear from easier encounters.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by reve View Post
    How does "strict 10man" matter anymore? You get the same gear from easier encounters.
    You can gear a 25man Raid A LOT faster than a 10man. For Example i've got 3 391enhshaman weapons for 2nd, two 391 T12 items and so on. We also dissed 6 391 Daggers until now because nobody in our Raid needed it. So I'm sorry, but a 25man Raid, picking out the best 10, with very good egar and then killing raggi isn't legit. (though i have no doubts Paragon would have killed him with a strict 10man raid also)

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Pommesfrittes View Post
    You can gear a 25man Raid A LOT faster than a 10man. For Example i've got 3 391enhshaman weapons for 2nd, two 391 T12 items and so on. We also dissed 6 391 Daggers until now because nobody in our Raid needed it. So I'm sorry, but a 25man Raid, picking out the best 10, with very good egar and then killing raggi isn't legit. (though i have no doubts Paragon would have killed him with a strict 10man raid also)
    10s get geared just as fast as 25s man even faster sometimes so this 10 man strict kill is pointless, 10 man is far easier than 25 man hc. A 25 man guild will have the same gear as the 10 man guild so it doesnt matter if you kill it on 10 or 25 man because no team has a better advantage on gear, its usually a matter of luck of what drops from the boss but the same ratio of gear per person drops on 10 and 25 man so a 10 man strict discussion is pointless since everyone gets the same gear anyway.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by reve View Post
    How does "strict 10man" matter anymore? You get the same gear from easier encounters.
    Because all 10-man players are bad and doesn't acknowledge when a good guild comes down from 25-man and kills something.

    Seriously though, if you truly don't know the answer to your question, please create another thread with that topic, and discuss it there. I do not want a flame war in this thread. Even if you don't get the point of the thread, or agree with it, it's not reason enough to plant the seeds of destruction.

    (And if you reply to this post I won't answer back, as I said, this is not the topic of this thread and belongs in another, please respect that)
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  17. #37
    Avoiding all the 25 vs 10 crap. Thanks for posting the EU thread I think most guilds are in agreement at this point that you need to 2 heal, and most are doing a stack and AoE p2 strategy. I think where we run into issues and it's probably a matter of practice and maybe gear is were just short the AoE DPS of a complete AoE kill, and when we do there's no room to error. I think world in flames is still causing the most significant issues with people getting caught out of positon after fanning out at the end of the AoE. It's a difficult fight, and the margins/safety factors are pretty low right now.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    10s get geared just as fast as 25s man even faster sometimes so this 10 man strict kill is pointless, 10 man is far easier than 25 man hc. A 25 man guild will have the same gear as the 10 man guild so it doesnt matter if you kill it on 10 or 25 man because no team has a better advantage on gear, its usually a matter of luck of what drops from the boss but the same ratio of gear per person drops on 10 and 25 man so a 10 man strict discussion is pointless since everyone gets the same gear anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by reve View Post
    How does "strict 10man" matter anymore? You get the same gear from easier encounters.
    Some people really don't understand the basics of the game.
    It's proven by default now (many kills in 25 mans few kills in 10 man) that 10 man is harder. (also don't bring up paragon having an easier time in 10 man if you've learned a fight and went to try it on 10 man in stead of 25 man some things will change but you will still have a HUGE advantage compared to when you just started 25 man with no clue how the encounter would play out and what classes/setups you would need to run, BS is BS.)

    god bless the ignore and report function <3

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synthets View Post
    Some people really don't understand the basics of the game.
    It's proven by default now (many kills in 25 mans few kills in 10 man) that 10 man is harder.
    By that logic Female Soccer is lot harder because fraction of Football community bothers with it ?

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  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Zixen View Post
    Avoiding all the 25 vs 10 crap. Thanks for posting the EU thread I think most guilds are in agreement at this point that you need to 2 heal, and most are doing a stack and AoE p2 strategy. I think where we run into issues and it's probably a matter of practice and maybe gear is were just short the AoE DPS of a complete AoE kill, and when we do there's no room to error. I think world in flames is still causing the most significant issues with people getting caught out of positon after fanning out at the end of the AoE. It's a difficult fight, and the margins/safety factors are pretty low right now.
    We've been getting past p2 now, even with a dps down because avoiding engulfing flames or sulfuron smash+lava wave is hard. Just wish we could use our boomkin without saving him so he can still get embers in an alt raid. Those adds would die so much faster.

    As for 10vs25, both have advantages and disadvantages.

    Quote Originally Posted by Exiztence View Post
    By that logic Female Soccer is lot harder because fraction of Football community bothers with it ?
    170 guilds are 6+/7 in 25m
    163 guilds are 6+/7 in 10m

    Looks pretty even to me, so your argument really doesn't apply.
    Last edited by Murava; 2011-08-05 at 02:37 PM.
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