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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Synthets View Post
    Some people really don't understand the basics of the game.
    It's proven by default now (many kills in 25 mans few kills in 10 man) that 10 man is harder. (also don't bring up paragon having an easier time in 10 man if you've learned a fight and went to try it on 10 man in stead of 25 man some things will change but you will still have a HUGE advantage compared to when you just started 25 man with no clue how the encounter would play out and what classes/setups you would need to run, BS is BS.)

    god bless the ignore and report function <3
    have you even done both 10 and 25 man, i have done both every week since the start and by far 10 man is faceroll compared to 25 man, my alt is just doing 10 mans and its pretty much as geared as my main doing 25 mans so before posting get your facts right.

    Its a fact 10 man is easier compared to 25 man apart from 1 encounter that is slightly harder on 10m, dont post when you have no clue on what your talking about.

    The reason there are more 25 man kills is because more ppl prefer to raid in 25 mans and the top guilds are all 25 man.
    Last edited by kenn9530; 2011-08-05 at 02:49 PM.

  2. #42
    Lol this was bound to become 10m vs 25m. Anyway the 10m "strict" thing is just a rationalization of 10m guilds to improve their rankings arbitrarily. Not saying that it is a bad thing as 25m guilds do it too. If you raid 25m you have no reason to care about 10m unless you do them seriously on your alts and 10m guilds have even less reason to care as no one raid 10m with 25m alt raids. Different format is different and when you show off your raiding e-peen on your guild profile on wowprogress etc you would be listing your raiding accomplishment under 10m or 25m anyway.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    have you even done both 10 and 25 man, i have done both every week since the start and by far 10 man is faceroll compared to 25 man, my alt is just doing 10 mans and its pretty much as geared as my main doing 25 mans so before posting get your facts right.

    Its a fact 10 man is easier compared to 25 man apart from 1 encounter that is slightly harder on 10m, dont post when you have no clue on what your talking about.

    The reason there are more 25 man kills is because more ppl prefer to raid in 25 mans and the top guilds are all 25 man.
    You probably have people who aren't up to par in your 25m group if you are only 2/7. That doesn't make 25m raiding more difficult. If you had to take the worst 10 players in your raid to a 10m, how successful would you be? more than 2/7?
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  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Synthets View Post
    Some people really don't understand the basics of the game.
    It's proven by default now (many kills in 25 mans few kills in 10 man) that 10 man is harder.
    This logic makes no sense at all. It COMPLETELY ignores the factor of "how many excellent players are doing the content in 25-man" vs. "how many excellent players are doing the content in 10-man". You probably don't even understand yourself how stupid your logic is, so it's a bit pointless to try to turn your head.

    I'll try anyway:
    let's say there's 10 people with an IQ of 140 trying to solve a puzzle (individually). 7 of them manage to solve it. Then there's 10 people with an IQ of 80 trying to solve a somewhat different puzzle. 2 of them manage to solve it. Does this mean that the people with an IQ of 140 had an easier puzzle?

  5. #45
    Heh, I remember when Dream killed Al'akir world first on 10-man when they were a 25-man guild and none cared, instead calling Paragon's kill the world first.

    I was one of them, but the difference is that I don't care about Paragon's 10-man kill of Ragnaros or see it as legit. There's no real 10-man kill yet in mine and many other people's eyes, just gtfo if you just wanna whine about 25-man vs 10-man, there's other threads for that.

  6. #46
    im pretty sure it was the 10 man who wanted everything equalized and now they still want to be recognized over 25 man players,,,, lol where will the hypocrisy end?

  7. #47
    Fluffy Kitten Malefic's Avatar
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    We're within killing it this week. For those trying Paragon's strategy in P2, it won't work. Not on 10. We have a very strong strategy for P2 that we feel works very well for us.

    I can't discuss how close we are or are not, but I strongly feel it's possible we will kill it this week.

  8. #48
    For those trying Paragon's strategy in P2, it won't work. Not on 10
    Did Paragon use their P2 25 man strategy for P2 on 10's?

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Mixon View Post
    im pretty sure it was the 10 man who wanted everything equalized and now they still want to be recognized over 25 man players,,,, lol where will the hypocrisy end?
    Having the both sizes at the same difficulty would of course be great, but since Blizzard never will manage that completely I think it's fair if some guilds want to rank themselves or others only with other guilds of their size. Overall it seems like people are to obsessed over the whole 10 vs 25-man situation, I'm just glad we don't need to wait for hotfixes months after the release to actually be able to kill most bosses like in T11.

    Just get it into your head that some people rank themselves together with both sizes, and some just with one. Deal with it because you can't change it.

  10. #50
    Fluffy Kitten Malefic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TyrianFC View Post
    Did Paragon use their P2 25 man strategy for P2 on 10's?
    I don't know, but if they did they had a much stronger setup for it.

    I take back what I said, Paragons P2 strategy in 25s might work in 10s, but having the setup to do that is a challenge alone for a 10man guild (Paragon took a perfect setup to do the P2 tactic)

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by TyrianFC View Post
    Did Paragon use their P2 25 man strategy for P2 on 10's?
    There was a post by Synti somewhere here saying they wiped quite a bit trying to implament a 25man strategy and ended up scoring the kill soon after changing it up.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Malefic View Post
    We're within killing it this week. For those trying Paragon's strategy in P2, it won't work. Not on 10. We have a very strong strategy for P2 that we feel works very well for us.

    I can't discuss how close we are or are not, but I strongly feel it's possible we will kill it this week.
    Sure you can use paragon's 25m p2 strat in 10m, you just need to make sure your add doesn't hit you with more than a couple stacks.
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  13. #53
    Fluffy Kitten Malefic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murava View Post
    Sure you can use paragon's 25m p2 strat in 10m, you just need to make sure your add doesn't hit you with more than a couple stacks.
    As I said in my post afterwards, I take back what I said about using Paragons P2 tactic, but it's very setup requiring.

    Adds on 25 have 350k,
    Adds on 10 have 250k.

    The AoE requirement per player is higher in 10man than it is in 25man, and even if Paragon used the AoE tactic during their 10man kill they had a strong setup to do so.

  14. #54
    Field Marshal tinatus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malefic View Post
    The AoE requirement per player is higher in 10man than it is in 25man.
    I do not think so, AoE doesn't cap in 10man.

    edit: You can see Envy handling this by spawning a couple of seeds separately from the maingroup in their kill video.
    youtube.com/watch?v=S3OKeMxihac
    Last edited by tinatus; 2011-08-05 at 06:24 PM.

  15. #55
    Pandaren Monk
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    Have to remember that they are effectively AoE capped in 25 man as there are 20 adds to deal with instead of 8. Still I didn't know the health difference was that small.

    We geared up a Moonkin for our last 2 raid days of the week in an attempt to try and AoE them down more effectively. Going to try it with Frost DK, Hunter, Moonkin and Shadow Priest. That should be enough to put a hefty dent in the adds, or at least kill enough to where a 2-3 of them in the group isn't going to matter.

    We tried the spread out strategy and I don't think it's going to work for us in the long run. Had we put some time into it I am sure we could see past Phase 2, but it lengthens P2 by quite a bit.

    I am curious what tactics they were referring to that they were over complicating when doing it on 10m vs 25? It must be P4 because I can't see P3 being different on either difficulty.

  16. #56
    Fluffy Kitten Malefic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinatus View Post
    I do not think so, AoE doesn't cap in 10man.

    edit: You can see Envy handling this by spawning a couple of seeds separately from the maingroup in their kill video.
    youtube.com/watch?v=S3OKeMxihac
    Yeah, I know, but I think taking that into account the AoE requirement per player is still slightly lower on 25man, I don't know, I don't know the mathematics behind it.

    Still, I think the AoE tactic is easier to achieve on 25man than it is on 10man.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by TyrianFC View Post
    Did Paragon use their P2 25 man strategy for P2 on 10's?
    Yes we did. Everything exploded instantly, instead of being close.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Malefic View Post
    The AoE requirement per player is higher in 10man than it is in 25man, and even if Paragon used the AoE tactic during their 10man kill they had a strong setup to do so.
    This is about as false as it gets. The requirements are much more lenient in the 10-man all around. If you got any kind of remotely sensible setup, P2 is a cake walk - especially since you have much more healing power per player in teh raid.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Mixon View Post
    im pretty sure it was the 10 man who wanted everything equalized and now they still want to be recognized over 25 man players,,,, lol where will the hypocrisy end?
    No one in this thread has said anything about having 10m be recognized over 25m raids. It's a thread made by a 10m group asking about how the other 10m groups on the same fight are doing. What hypocrisy?

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by zYN View Post
    Yes we did. Everything exploded instantly, instead of being close.
    Is their a 10m video? considering it's been killed in 10m by another guild already. Or did no one bother frapsing?
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