Bear T12 BiS Lists

[Arielle]

That Stamina weight is wrong. But otherwise yeah.

[Auroro]

That Stamina weight is wrong. But otherwise yeah.

Katarn, do not make me get Reesi to teach you a lesson.

This is the default stats build that Mr. Robot choose.

Agility = 1
Armor = 0.71
Dodge = 0.88
Stamina = 0.31
Mastery = 0.48
Expertise = 0.3
Crit = 0.28
Hit = 0.15
Str = 0.126
Attack Power = 0.12
Haste = 0.04

If you look at it, the weapon enchantment is windwalker. The head should be the stamina/dodge one because agility/haste is useless.

Like I said there is a range where you become Agility stacker, or Stamina stacking. The build that I choose is in the middle.

Stamina (until you reach the threshold for the contents) > Agility > Dodge > Mastery > Expertise (Soft Cap) > Crit > Hit <=> Expertise (Hard Cap) > Haste

If we compare the two different stats build:

My Stats Build:

Total Score		21323
Strength		680.40
Agility		7205.10
Stamina		10514.17
Mastery		21.59
Health		186731.32
Armor		53965.99
Dodge		44.11 %
Dodge (from gear)		37.12 %
Total Avoidance		51.11 %
Attack Power		21042.45
Physical Hit		3.16 %
Main Hand Expertise		3.61 %
Physical Crit		36.82 %
Melee Haste		13.57 %
Proc/Use (Armor)		2952.25
Proc/Use (Mastery)		2.26

Mr. Robot's Stats Build:

Total Score		20371
Strength		701.40
Agility		7205.10
Stamina		10231.35
Mastery		21.73
Health		182771.94
Armor		53965.99
Dodge		43.91 %
Dodge (from gear)		36.78 %
Total Avoidance		50.91 %
Attack Power		21071.33
Physical Hit		3.16 %
Main Hand Expertise		3.61 %
Physical Crit		36.82 %
Melee Haste		13.96 %
Proc/Use (Armor)		2952.25
Proc/Use (Mastery)		2.26

[Arielle]

Katarn, do not make me get Reesi to teach you a lesson.

That made me giggle. Probably because you don't know who I am

Agility = 1
Armor = 0.71
Dodge = 0.88
Stamina = 0.31
Mastery = 0.48
Expertise = 0.3
Crit = 0.28
Hit = 0.15
Str = 0.126
Attack Power = 0.12
Haste = 0.04

That seems more accurate.

Stamina (until you reach the threshold for the contents) > Agility > Dodge > Mastery > Expertise (Soft Cap) > Crit > Hit <=> Expertise (Hard Cap) > Haste

This is true. However for normal mode raiding you will have enough Stamina just by virtue of equipping your gear, gemming, and enchanting it properly. So it really only applies to heroic modes.

[Auroro]

That made me giggle. Probably because you don't know who I am

Let see, you and I have the same debate since WotLK, so I do know who you are, Katarn, or I should call you Arielle.

Also, I know that Reesi is working with you however she does the middle ground for her gears where you are doing agility stacking. Like you will choose Agility/Haste helm enchantment over Stamina/Dodge.

If we have a scale for stacking toward something, you will fall under agility stacking while Sejta is Stamina stacking. Reesi fall between you two, i want to be in that same spot as Reesi in the middle, the only different is the reforging choices.

That stats weight of mine is in the middle of Agility stacking and stamina stacking. If you lower the stamina like to 0.51 all the enchantment will switch to agility stacking, where as if you go above 0.54, the gems will start switching to stamina.

[Nugiles]

Trinkets trinkets trinkets. So many trinkets. Which are the best- I know it's situational on all accounts, but let's just say general tanking no fancy mechanic.

I've been running with:
http://www.wowhead.com/item=69001 - Reforged to Dodge
and
http://www.wowhead.com/item=68981 - Reforged to Dodge

Swapping out with:
http://www.wowhead.com/item=68915
http://www.wowhead.com/item=65140
http://www.wowhead.com/item=59515 - Hate the Moonwell Phial cause of movement, and wish I had 372 version.
http://www.wowhead.com/item=68996


Lost the roll on http://www.wowhead.com/item=68994 tonight which I'm guessing is BiS with the Spidersilk Spindle?

[Auroro]

Lost the roll on http://www.wowhead.com/item=68994 tonight which I'm guessing is BiS with the Spidersilk Spindle?

Not really, it is also situational.

There are couple fight in FL where you can use Moonwell Phial. Since brewfest is coming, one of the trinket drop there is same as Moonwell Phial but only give dodge not stamina and does not have the movement problem.

[Reesify]

Let see, you and I have the same debate since WotLK, so I do know who you are, Katarn, or I should call you Arielle.

Also, I know that Reesi is working with you however she does the middle ground for her gears where you are doing agility stacking. Like you will choose Agility/Haste helm enchantment over Stamina/Dodge.

If we have a scale for stacking toward something, you will fall under agility stacking while Sejta is Stamina stacking. Reesi fall between you two, i want to be in that same spot as Reesi in the middle, the only different is the reforging choices.

That stats weight of mine is in the middle of Agility stacking and stamina stacking. If you lower the stamina like to 0.51 all the enchantment will switch to agility stacking, where as if you go above 0.54, the gems will start switching to stamina.

I'm confused.

[Auroro]

I'm confused.

For example,

Arielle choose Agility/Haste helm enchantment for tanking as well as the Agility/Mastery for the shoulder. During T11 timeframe, he was gemming all agility even if the item bonus is +10 agility. This put him in the agility stacking area.

You chosen Stamina/Dodge helm enchantment for tanking as well as Stamina/Dodge for the shoulder. Even the boot enchantment is stamina. During T11 timeframe, you were doing a mixture meaning you were doing a balance between stamina and agility. You are still doing that balance for T12. That put you in the middle.

Sejta does Stamina no matter what. His healer is that good. That put Sejta in the Stamina Stacking area.

There is a range where you are gemming and enchanting put you somewhere.

Default stats weight:
Agility = 1
Armor = 0.71
Dodge = 0.88
Stamina = 0.31
Mastery = 0.48
Expertise = 0.3
Crit = 0.28
Hit = 0.15
Str = 0.126
Attack Power = 0.12
Haste = 0.04

The Enchantment chosen:
Windwalk
+50 Agility and +25 Mastery Rating
+60 Agility and +35 Haste rating
+250 Armor
+20 All Stats
+50 Agility
+240 Armor
+145 Stamina and +55 Agility
+25 Agility and Minor Movement Speed

The Gems chosen:
10=+40 agility
2=+20 agility and +30 Stamina
2=+20 agility and +20 dodge
1=+81 stamina and 2% armor

This is close to Agility Stacking.

[Arielle]

Arielle choose Agility/Haste helm enchantment for tanking as well as the Agility/Mastery for the shoulder. During T11 timeframe, he was gemming all agility even if the item bonus is +10 agility. This put him in the agility stacking area.

This is simply explained by the roles we fill and the content we're doing. Not any sort of distinct philosophy.

I tank 10ms. 10m normals don't hit hard (except Rag). A lot of the T11 10m heroics don't hit hard either. Further I am the tank that switches to DPS on 1tank fights, partially because I out dps our Paladin tank, and partially having a Paladin tank in a 10m is a godsend (lol raidwall). These two combined mean I will tend more to gemming / enchanting my shared pieces for Kitty as opposed to straight tanking.

Reesi tanks 25m heroics. Those hit goddamn mf'ing hard. Thus her EH requirement is much, much higher than mine. Not only that, but she has better gear to choose from than I do simply by virtue of the fact that 25m gets a lot more drops.

The "correct" answer is always the same. Get enough EH to survive the maximum possible burst and then get more mitigation. If your healers have unlimited mana then mitigation is largely irrelevant and EH is king.

The reality is that you can gem and enchant however you want for normal modes, and you probably still won't have any problems. It only starts to make noticeable differences when you get to Heroics.

[kaamila]

just curious but since alot of the fights in FL has magic dmg i thought that stam stacking was best in the way that sejta gems. not arguing what u guys are saying just curious is all since my druid alt raids FL normals. i used the agi stacking method and switched to stam to test for this week.

[Yohassakura]

just curious but since alot of the fights in FL has magic dmg i thought that stam stacking was best in the way that sejta gems. not arguing what u guys are saying just curious is all since my druid alt raids FL normals. i used the agi stacking method and switched to stam to test for this week.

Note - Heroic 25.

Shannox - Physical, with bleed (still doesn't hit THAT hard to consider stam stacking, unless you really suck at resetting stacks... Even on our bad attempts i've survived 11 stacks with 180k hp, love chaining CDs!)

Beth'tilac - Melee while tanking, (+ some magic if you're upstairs), magic flame-spew when the web team has to drop down (aoe healing covers it).

Lord Rhyolith - P1 - Magic, some physical (lots if you're tanking the spark) Though not enough to warrant avid stamina stacking.

Alysrazor - Physical, some magic (not sure what the proportion of damage is like on heroic, as we've not tried it yet).

Baelroc - Stack dodge big time... Main tank is gaining stamina (so it's worthless to stack it) and offtank wants to dodge (and or parry for other tanking classes) as many blows as possible (stacks of that buff will suffice for 250k~ hp). - Not attempted it, but the theory makes sense...

Majordomo - 40-60k physical hits from the boss and adds... Can be nasty if there's several adds up at once, though just pop a CD and shout at your DPS to finish them off (they go down a treat on our heroic fights). So, stamina not really needed unless your DPS can't cleave (hint, stack rogues).

So basically, 180-200k range is the sort of top end for heroic 25 modes that you need for the fights i've seen/is pretty obvious for.

Raggy - ?? I'd guess that the health "requirement" is higher than the other fights... Not really looked into it or tried it.

So for normal modes, you can probably get by on 160k, 180k on raggy.

[Deleted]

Agility = 1
Armor = 0.71
Dodge = 0.68
Stamina = 0.53
Mastery = 0.35
Expertise = 0.3
Crit = 0.28
Hit = 0.15
Str = 0.126
Attack Power = 0.12
Haste = 0.04

Using these stat weights would the agi / mastery shoulder enchant not be better than the stam / dodge one?

Agi enchant gives 58.75, whereas stam one would give 56.75.

[Deleted]

Agility = 1
Armor = 0.71
Dodge = 0.68
Stamina = 0.53
Mastery = 0.35
Expertise = 0.3
Crit = 0.28
Hit = 0.15
Str = 0.126
Attack Power = 0.12
Haste = 0.04

Using these stat weights would the agi / mastery shoulder enchant not be better than the stam / dodge one?

The agi enchant would give 58.75, whereas the stam one would give 56.75.

[Auroro]

Using these stat weights would the agi / mastery shoulder enchant not be better than the stam / dodge one?

The agi enchant would give 58.75, whereas the stam one would give 56.75.

Can you tell me what math did you use?

Again, I change the stats to be a little heavy on the dodge and stamina.

If you look at the default and mine, you will see that I change Stamina, Dodge, and Mastery. Also if you go higher than 0.35 stats weight for mastery the enchantment change to the Agility/Mastery and couple reforge change as well. Same thing happen to the weapon, increase the dodge weight, you get windwalker.

The number I have chosen is in the middle of all the major gem/enchantment changes. You just have to change the stats weight to see those changes.

The only enchantment that you should not get is the Agility/haste head enchantment. Everything else is up to you because it does not hurt you at all.

[Deleted]

Yeah I'm currently using the agi / mastery enchant, but have the stam / dodge on helm.

All I did was 50 x 1 + 25 x 0.35 = 58.75, and for the stam one: 75 x 0.53 + 25 x 0.68 = 56.75.