Holy should have a dps portion

[Tauren]

kinda like how feral works? i think it would be cool

[Kelesti]

Feral uses a different resource between two roles in the same tree.

So no, in WoW's current system it won't work.

[zcks]

Sadly there are a lot of things the paladin class needs, like an expanded toolkit of abilities to fill each of its specific roles (especially for ret & prot) so that changes to 1 ability will not have so much of an adverse effect across the entire class.



Sadly blizzard management is unlikely to ever make many of the changes the class needs (especially for ret) because they consider paladins first & foremost a healer. At the end of the day they don't see ret spec as worth the trouble because it's not in high demand like holy & to a somewhat less amount prot are.

[Nillo]

Okay can someone explain to me what this thread is about?
1) The title suggests it has something to do with Holy Paladins and dps
2) The first post suggests it has some connection to feral and uhm? => what does this have to do with "Holy" and "dps"?


If this is about 1: I hope they'll up the SP coeff for Judgement (like at least double it's damage) and allow our damage skills to crit for 200%.

[Deleted]

I'd understand if he said Prot, since feral is both DPS and tank, but even then it would be lolsworthy.
But seriously, what?

[Edriel]

He's saying that just like in feral you can tank/dps he wants holy to be healing/dps which is a pretty bad idea since druids have forms that can alter stats and prevent certain abilities from being used while holy does not. Plus what's the point...?

[Deleted]

I agree with the OP and what I think he is trying to say is that holy paladins need two paths instead of one just like druids, this could be done in many ways such as two special talents like fury warriors have just where you can only pick one of the talents or with a shadow form thing. Obviously paladins would need more spells for this to work as we currently only have crusader strike, exorcism and righteous shield (I think it called) as baseline spells.

---------- Post added 2011-08-04 at 12:50 AM ----------

Plus what's the point...?

The point is that currently there are only two classes in the game with only 1 dps spec. These two classes being the paladin and the priest. Now heres the catch, looking at the infamous charts from the front page of mmoc you will see that paladins are currently the worst dps CLASS in the game while priests are actually the best dps CLASS in the game.

---------- Post added 2011-08-04 at 12:52 AM ----------

I'd understand if he said Prot, since feral is both DPS and tank, but even then it would be lolsworthy.
But seriously, what?

He didnt say prot because then it would turn out to be a druid clone, instead he said holy because that would spice things up a bit AND it would allow for dps paladins to use the most hated loot in the game (healing plate)


Most people in this thread dont seem to understand that an idea like this obviously would take a lot of alteration of the current talents, yes this idea would be dumb and impossible with CURRENT talents but you know blizzard CAN change talents and spells.

[Deleted]

I agree with the OP and what I think he is trying to say is that holy paladins need two paths instead of one just like druids, this could be done in many ways such as two special talents like fury warriors have just where you can only pick one of the talents or with a shadow form thing. Obviously paladins would need more spells for this to work as we currently only have crusader strike, exorcism and righteous shield (I think it called) as baseline spells.

---------- Post added 2011-08-04 at 12:50 AM ----------


The point is that currently there are only two classes in the game with only 1 dps spec. These two classes being the paladin and the priest. Now heres the catch, looking at the infamous charts from the front page of mmoc you will see that paladins are currently the worst dps CLASS in the game while priests are actually the best dps CLASS in the game.

---------- Post added 2011-08-04 at 12:52 AM ----------


He didnt say prot because then it would turn out to be a druid clone, instead he said holy because that would spice things up a bit AND it would allow for dps paladins to use the most hated loot in the game (healing plate)

Simple way to do this, don't roll a pally if you're interested in topping the charts as DPS.
Done.

[r3nd]

It baffles me that you guys can't understand what he's trying to say.

[Dedweight]

Okay can someone explain to me what this thread is about?
1) The title suggests it has something to do with Holy Paladins and dps
2) The first post suggests it has some connection to feral and uhm? => what does this have to do with "Holy" and "dps"?


If this is about 1: I hope they'll up the SP coeff for Judgement (like at least double it's damage) and allow our damage skills to crit for 200%.

Exactly what the title states? He wants "Shockadin" to come back and actually be a viable DPS option just like feral can be Tank or DPS he wants Holy to be Heals or DPS. I personally don't see any need for it, I guess it could help with Holy leveling or possibly PvP but those are the only non-gimmick places I can think of that a Holy DPS spec would even be "needed."

[r3nd]

Exactly what the title states? He wants "Shockadin" to come back and actually be a viable DPS option just like feral can be Tank or DPS he wants Holy to be Heals or DPS. I personally don't see any need for it, I guess it could help with Holy leveling or possibly PvP but those are the only non-gimmick places I can think of that a Holy DPS spec would even be "needed."

If we're talking about leveling, "shockadin" still works incredibly well.

Once you hit 80ish, the scaling is just awful and it is not viable in any way at all.

[Deleted]

Simple way to do this, don't roll a pally if you're interested in topping the charts as DPS.
Done.

I dont think anyone want to top its just that the only two hybrids that can be compared to paladins are currently topping the meters while paladins are the lowest of all classes. If we go by the hybrids should do less damage because they have more roles, then druids should be the worst dps class in the game but it happens that they are currently the 2nd best. Just a tiny bit better than druids should be shamans paladins and priests but thats not how it is atm.

[Deleted]

If we're talking about leveling, "shockadin" still works incredibly well.

Once you hit 80ish, the scaling is just awful and it is not viable in any way at all.

Can't even compare it to how it used to be, since you have to fully spec into a talent tree to spec in another.
And the abilities are all reworked.

[Deleted]

I personally don't see any need for it, I guess it could help with Holy leveling or possibly PvP but those are the only non-gimmick places I can think of that a Holy DPS spec would even be "needed."

Besides the arguement of ret pallies being the worst dps in the game theres still a lot of holy paladin loot that only holy paladins can use and a spec like this (if tuned properly so it is viable) could take and use in raids.

Would I personally play a holy dps spec in raids, no I would not but I can see some paladins that want to dps, want to play paladin but dont like melee playing something like this. It would also allow me to have 1 set of gear for both healing and my dps offspec just like shamans, druids and priests have.

[Dedweight]

Besides the arguement of ret pallies being the worst dps in the game theres still a lot of holy paladin loot that only holy paladins can use and a spec like this (if tuned properly so it is viable) could take and use in raids.

Ret's the worst? Somehow I don't see that, either I'm extremely unlucky and every player that isn't a Ret Paladin is absolutely horrible or the Ret Paladins I've encountered are better than the average player. Either way if Ret was the worst wouldn't a better solution be to fix Ret rather then give Holy a viable Raid DPS option?

[Deleted]

Ret's the worst? Somehow I don't see that, either I'm extremely unlucky and every player that isn't a Ret Paladin is absolutely horrible or the Ret Paladins I've encountered are better than the average player. Either way if Ret was the worst wouldn't a better solution be to fix Ret rather then give Holy a viable Raid DPS option?

Im sorry I dont think I made myself clear, no ret are not the worst spec, however paladins (rets) are currently the worst dps class so if all the dps in your raid are using the best spec of their class ret should be the worst.

[Deleted]

A nice one for the pile of things that would be nice and sort of make sense but are so plucked out of the air that they just won't happen. For one, if holy would serve as a DPS and a healing tree, there would need to be a system that makes them mutually exclusive for "on the fly". There's no way we're going to have a class that can swap between a full power DPSer and full power healer at will which will happen if they just add in some buffs to damage spells to the holy tree, rather one with a rework of the entire tree to accommodate some sort of swap system. While by no stretch of the imagination impossible, I don't expect Blizzard will take the effort at any point even though they did for holy priests in the form of chakra (not that it makes holy priest viable DPSers, but you get the idea).

In particular the loot argument is quite compelling.

[Tauren]

this didnt have to do with a shockadin either. i never played it so this isnt what its about. just would be cool for holy paladins to have a dps portion just like ferals have a tank/dps portion. holy could have something like holy strike instead of crusader strike.. idk?

or holy could have Fist of the Heavens from diablo 2

---------- Post added 2011-08-04 at 02:45 AM ----------

You must be baffled easily and regularly, then, because the way he tried to express his thoughts as a written expression was equivalent to that of a small child.

"Holy should have a dps portion, kinda like how feral works? i think it would be cool"

Probably should read closer to "The Holy talent tree should support both a DPS spec as well as a Healer spec, similar to how the Feral Combat tree supports both a DPS and Tank role. I think it would be cool."

dude im 17 not a small child

and how can someone not understand OP if they know how druids work? what i said wasnt in detail but really?

---------- Post added 2011-08-04 at 02:55 AM ----------

blizzard could give a protection stance that would give you extra armor and threat (remove righteous fury) and a healing stance (holy paladins starting ret talent that gives you more healing) and then a dps stance that could be holy damage