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  1. #561
    Quote Originally Posted by Oogzy View Post
    Or Ranikotar it was people that are just bored of the content/pace of the game. That and the high initial cost to start playing and be able to do everything right now is over $100 so new subscribers are very wary of joining. All things die in time and it's not like WoW's really all that dead. 300k/12mil = 2%. Not much of a real loss. Other MMO's would kill to have half the subscribers that WoW has.
    Uhm... It's been 900k/12M, not 300k. It was just 300k this quarter, 600k last quarter. Thats almost 10% not very good when they were so proud of their 12M players. That's what happens when you let someone like Ghostcrawler take control of the game. That's what happens when you've only got 3 people working at Blizzard Headquarters at a time, especially when one is a CM and the other two are artists.

    Trust me, I have plenty of friends inside that building, and it's not the Disney World ride everyone thinks it is. It's very quickly falling apart.

    10% of their player base in less than half a year is not good. And the majority of those people are either going RIFT or Runescape. Yeah, Runescape...

  2. #562
    It's really quite easy to understand why this game has lost almost a million subscribers. It boils down to two factors:

    1. There's very little to do in the game these days unless you schedule a large amount of time every week to play with your guild or friends.

    2. The number of people who're interested in scheduling that much time to play is dropping as the game gets older. Sorry guys... the game's seven years old and the core mechanics are getting stale. Fewer people are gonna want to "work for it" every year.

    The latest content is hard to access without pretty high playtime -- say 15+ hours a week, with most of it being scheduled raids. Subs will decline until they hit some floor that consists only of people who want to invest that much time. Past that point I think they'll decline more slowly.

    The Wrath philosophy was that the content should be accessible. It worked to maintain WoW's highest subscriber levels ever. In Cataclysm they've really moved away from that. Maybe they figure the game's getting so old that only diehards are going to keep on playing it anyway.

    Vanilla/TBC were arguably WoW's best years -- but back then WoW was a new game. No one had gotten sick of it yet and they didn't have any real competitors. Unfortunately, the market is different now and WoW isn't the new hotness anymore. Anyone who's interested in MMOs has at least given WoW a try. That model wouldn't work again if it was adopted today.

    The only thing that puzzles me is how bad some of the design decisions are these days -- namely the fact that the easy VP comes from running two rehashed, several year old 5-mans over and over again. And waiting in a 45 minute queue to do it. Are they crazy? Who would want to play this?

    They should make it worthwhile to run the heroics AND raids that shipped with 4.0. Make them all puggable through the dungeon finder, and increase the rewards. They're newer, and comparatively fewer people have seen that content -- if people can get into it easily, they'll come back to check it out.

    And I do think they're going to have to step up the rate at which they release new, original, creative content if they want to stop the bleeding... or lower the sub cost. It costs almost $200/yr to play this game excluding expansion packs. With $200 you can buy three brand new games at retail and a couple indie games to boot. What did WoW subscribers get for their $200 in the past 12 months?

    ZA, ZG and Firelands. 200 bucks for three instances, two of them rehashes?? Are you kidding me? In what alternate universe does Morhaime think that's good value? It's probably the worst value Blizzard has offered you for your money since they founded the company!

    The question Blizzard has to face now is whether they want to consign an aging game to a shrinking audience of diehards, or try to re-broaden its appeal. So far it seems like they're going down the diehard route. Or maybe they've lost the plot and the game's suffering a lack of attention from the senior devs. Who knows.
    Last edited by arphir; 2011-08-06 at 08:25 AM.

  3. #563
    I'm one of the guild leaders for the biggest guild on the server. Yeah, a real casual guild in other words. We do a little bit of everything but the goal is to give players an option to be in a non-elite attitude guild. Anyways basically you have people leveling from lowest to highest level. Many do dungeons a few don't do dungeons at all while leveling. They level and have fun as long they are "progressing". The problem begins once they reach the highest level. They try to gear up through dungeons but the majority of players dislike the long wait time. A few PvP but in reality they aren't many to begin with. You have a few people that "want" to raid but don't fully grasp what it takes to actually do it. The point is the game is way too linear and you don't have that many options once you reach 85 as to what to do with your time. At that point people either reroll a new character or just quit playing. This is a big problem with the game in it's current state. It tries to be old-school but fails to realize that the game is too old and no longer has the "fresh" feeling attached to it. It's the same crap over and over again. The game adds nothing new after X years of going.

  4. #564
    Quote Originally Posted by arphir View Post
    1. There's very little to do in the game these days unless you schedule a large amount of time every week to play with your guild or friends.

    2. The number of people who're interested in scheduling that much time to play is dropping as the game gets older. Sorry guys... the game's seven years old and the core mechanics are getting stale. Fewer people are gonna want to "work for it" every year.
    Correct!
    Why? Its simply because of the shared 10/25 ID system. People mainly raiding 10mans used to be able to PUG 25mans when they had time and the other way round. Why was that so important?

    1. Many people who dont have time to play twinks used to be able to enjoy the raid for an additional evening with their mains chars
    2. You used to be able to just PUG this 2nd raid evening when u had time, no need for sceduling there. Even possible if you cant make it to all of your guilds main-raids. The new system with boss-wise IDing isnt as good as blizz thinks when it comes to this. You killed for example Shannox in your main raid, no PUG group is ever gonna take you...

    So blizz tried to limit the time people could spend with one char in a raid in order to keep content more interesting for people for a longer time... but the failed so very hard in not seeing this would mostly just be bad for those players that can maybe raid only 1 day in their main-raids and took them away a possible second raid day... hope they gonna back off the ID seperation... even if they keep loot the same

  5. #565
    I'm glad 900k people left this game. Just like 90% of the community are terrible players or assholes. Better off without em.
    There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want

  6. #566
    What about pvp? Earning gear is the easist thing atm in pvp content and is kinda sucks . 1 day farming honor and you're foul 371 ilvl even if you dont have a clue about doing pvp . blizz make it so easy so anyone can afford it but simply they dont learn nothing and simply /bored because theres no challenge at all .? I prefer earning 2 or 3 items per week rather the all items in one day and waiting 8 months simply afk and paying for nothing. They simply want all to become easy thats why ppl are loosing insteresting in this game . 1st week firelands most of ppl was waiting for last day of the week to raid simply because was pity to down all bosses in 1st day. Tell me something else the patch gonna be for 8 months you're gonna get any item you desire in 2 months ... make it 3 months the rest 5 months what are you going to do since there is no challenge at all?

  7. #567
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkblazer View Post
    What about pvp? Earning gear is the easist thing atm in pvp content and is kinda sucks . 1 day farming honor and you're foul 371 ilvl even if you dont have a clue about doing pvp . blizz make it so easy so anyone can afford it but simply they dont learn nothing and simply /bored because theres no challenge at all .? I prefer earning 2 or 3 items per week rather the all items in one day and waiting 8 months simply afk and paying for nothing. They simply want all to become easy thats why ppl are loosing insteresting in this game . 1st week firelands most of ppl was waiting for last day of the week to raid simply because was pity to down all bosses in 1st day. Tell me something else the patch gonna be for 8 months you're gonna get any item you desire in 2 months ... make it 3 months the rest 5 months what are you going to do since there is no challenge at all?
    That's idiotic trolling if ever I saw it.

    You are 7/7 hc? You are any good at pvp?

    If you knew pvp you would know its a challenge regardless of gear, because unless YOU are the best, and you're running with the best, always, there's always someone better than you.

    And just by looking at how you type and how you whine - I know that you are fucking crap, and are likely a keyboard turning 1200 rated ret paladin.

    The problem YOU have, is that the challenge is too great for you once you get gear - so you lose YOUR fun becuase you recognise your inability to do anything once you have gear. You like to play on the illusion that obtaining gear will allow you to complete content.

    Thats fine if thats what you enjoy, but PVP is still a gear grind - for conquest gear, where skill makes it come faster. And the difference between conquest gear and honor gear is enough that conquest gear will beat honor gear by a considerable margin where both players are equal - but honor gear is enough that PVP is enjoyable for everyone and that gear does not prevent you from ever getting near any high rating in arena or BG.

    Such nonsensical drivel you speak, it's not even an opinion, it's got to be trolling.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lugo Moll View Post
    Consider this philosophical question: If Blizz fails, but noone is there to see it. Will there still be QQ?

  8. #568
    Quote Originally Posted by Sackman View Post
    That's idiotic trolling if ever I saw it.

    You are 7/7 hc? You are any good at pvp?

    If you knew pvp you would know its a challenge regardless of gear, because unless YOU are the best, and you're running with the best, always, there's always someone better than you.

    And just by looking at how you type and how you whine - I know that you are fucking crap, and are likely a keyboard turning 1200 rated ret paladin.

    The problem YOU have, is that the challenge is too great for you once you get gear - so you lose YOUR fun becuase you recognise your inability to do anything once you have gear. You like to play on the illusion that obtaining gear will allow you to complete content.

    Thats fine if thats what you enjoy, but PVP is still a gear grind - for conquest gear, where skill makes it come faster. And the difference between conquest gear and honor gear is enough that conquest gear will beat honor gear by a considerable margin where both players are equal - but honor gear is enough that PVP is enjoyable for everyone and that gear does not prevent you from ever getting near any high rating in arena or BG.

    Such nonsensical drivel you speak, it's not even an opinion, it's got to be trolling.
    Well at least i dont use fucking words like some idiots ass@#$$. Try to get out of your basement because you need some manners and also some friends to learn you about communication*

  9. #569
    Quote Originally Posted by Sengura View Post
    I am one of those 300k. My subsription ended yesterday, and I don't plan on re-subbing for the foreseeable future.
    Common misconception is that this is because of "Summer Losses". I'd like to clear that up. Financial reporting is done per Quarter Q1, Q2, Q3, Q4, each 3 months long.

    Actually, you *aren't* one of the 300K. It's August. The results that show 300K lost subs are for Q2 (April, May, June), or basically Spring. Q3, the actual summer quarter, obviously isn't reported yet as it's not over yet.

    The losses they are posting aren't because, "it's summer now", since they are actually now just reporting the Spring Results. It's important for those that try to claim "summer losses", to keep in mind the actual time window they are talking about.

    I expect the actual Summer results to be murderous.
    Last edited by ewhenn; 2011-08-06 at 05:09 PM.

  10. #570
    Quote Originally Posted by Jockenponken View Post
    So another 300k subscribers gone. I have to say im not surprised. To those that say it changes nothing you need to se the bigger pictures. Perhaps you personally do not feel the effect but then imagine Blizzard loosing 300.000 * 12 euro per month in subscriptions fees. Thats 3 million a month gone. Tell me that Blizzard is not worried about that trend keeping up eh?
    If you look at the 10Qs, the revenue of WoW is down between 12 and 15M $/month from Q1 to Q2. So it's probably worse than your calculation indicates. I suspect gains in China are offsetting even larger losses in NA/EU, which is bad news indeed, since a China account brings in only a small fraction of the revenue of a western subscription.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  11. #571
    Quote Originally Posted by Felaful View Post
    Uhm... It's been 900k/12M, not 300k. It was just 300k this quarter, 600k last quarter. Thats almost 10% not very good when they were so proud of their 12M players. That's what happens when you let someone like Ghostcrawler take control of the game. That's what happens when you've only got 3 people working at Blizzard Headquarters at a time, especially when one is a CM and the other two are artists.

    Trust me, I have plenty of friends inside that building, and it's not the Disney World ride everyone thinks it is. It's very quickly falling apart.

    10% of their player base in less than half a year is not good. And the majority of those people are either going RIFT or Runescape. Yeah, Runescape...
    Ok, so, I'm going to preface this by saying it's nothing personal, and for all I know you could be telling the truth...

    However...

    The fact that this cannot be proven discredits it as a logical argument. It's like saying I have the strongest argument because in real life I'm an astronaut. Whether or not it's true is irrelevant. The sheer fact that it cannot be proven is enough to discredit it as an argument base.

    Second, comparatively speaking, 10% of your player-base in half a year is NOT a big deal. Not when the common MMO see's a much larger drop in a much shorter time frame when something "universally rejected by the community" happens. We simply don't have any numbers to really say anything other than, "World of Warcraft lost 300,000 more subscriptions!". Anything beyond that is baseless theory-mongering without any way to test.

    ---------- Post added 2011-08-07 at 03:50 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Jockenponken View Post
    So another 300k subscribers gone. I have to say im not surprised. To those that say it changes nothing you need to se the bigger pictures. Perhaps you personally do not feel the effect but then imagine Blizzard loosing 300.000 * 12 euro per month in subscriptions fees. Thats 3 million a month gone. Tell me that Blizzard is not worried about that trend keeping up eh?
    When I refer to the loss of the subscribers, "not being a big deal", I'm referring to the viability of the game--Not CEO and Executive yearly bonuses. MMOS thrive off of player-bases in the 100-thousands. World of Warcraft could lose a lot more than 900,000 and still remain a viable game. The excess profit Blizzard is getting isn't used to make the game "better"--Not all of it, anyway. More than most of it is fed into the Blizzard Activision machine.

    Blizzard had 12million subscriptions? 12,000,000 x $15= $180,000,000. Not even $90,000,000 of which was spent on making the game better. Isn't TOR's entire Production cost $100,000,000? The amount of "profit" put towards working on World of Warcraft is a number that I promise would shock you, and probably make you want to vomit a little. And before it's said, I realize $180,000,000 is a weird, "off the cuff" number--I don't have any evidence that's the kind of product they're making. But we have to guesstimate somewhere about it. Even if I'm shooting at double what it is, I'm betting Blizz isn't even spending 45 million on WoW right now.

    Do the CEOs want to keep their money? Absolutely.
    Does 900,000 less subscriptions make World of Warcraft dead in the water? Not even close.
    Last edited by 64bitjedi; 2011-08-07 at 09:55 AM.

  12. #572
    Not suprising to me as i have been playing since Vanila. When everything was pretty nice into Burning crusade halfway and even challengeing.When You saw a person geared in epics in vanila you were like "OMG WOW That player is really good and worked for it" ever since WOTLK you looked at a person in heroic gear your like meh. They downed Ragnaros within the first week and heroic within two weeks. This game is getting utterly to simple and easy to the point where you can do heroics and get your end game gear slowly but eventually you will. Vanila naxx was really hard, to people that don't know imagine 80 naxx(cause we were all there) where the trash mobs and bosses literaly, hit you for the same amount, tanks(good ones) having 7-8k HP and healers having low mana pools and having to pay attention. With raiding in WoW they need new stuff, not reruns of Naxx, ZA/ZG, and MC bosses. 10 man raids are an easy way of getting gear IMO the should go back to 25 man(still have i know) and the ultimate 40 man raids, the 40 man raids were the best, drop 2-4 items 4 people get something and you actually get excited for gettign gear. now people get a piece of gear and get out, it just shows how boring and how easy the game is.When people get bored of the easy raiding they turn to PvP as i have, where Blizzard gets so eaily confused with PvP and PvE nerfs due to Forums of people getting owned while facerolling their keyboard. When blizzard makes nerfed they see the PvP and PvE discression as people get "owned" in most cases is due to their own fault and mistakes in which cases they run to forums complaining how a class can kill me so easily when they should reflect on how they can prevent it and what they can do better. There will always be a player better than you in most cases, and when the person loses they get mad and stays away. In my own opinion blizzard needs to look away from PvP forums as they are mostly bads that dont know how to play and can't adjust. WoW is A raiding game with PvP as the hobby.I have done nearly everything in this game PvP endlessly to where pve endgame and just make twinks for the fun of it out of boredness.New stuff new options.Also in another opinion (sorry for long post of my statements) blizzard should take herilooms away, when noobies pvp they get ROFLPWNED by people in full heriloom and cannot prevent being camped by huntars all game and just make leveling insanely easy...get from 1-85 in 14 days wow that was easy....now lets do it again till i got 10 characters in endgame gear in an easy amount of time. I miss old vanila where you had a main that took months to level and all of vanila to gear and learn fights and AQ was just so awesome as was MC. Burning crusade was pretty decent too, too bad it didnt last they made the epic sunwell which blizzard should reflect today and make a raid of that difficulty. Others such as gruuls and ZA and Khara was bad on their part. wotlk was sadly disgusting other than ulduar imo it was very easy like all of WOTLK but it had SO MUCH thought into it (graphics.achievements, etc) but not enough time for people to explore it, instead got the easy cake Togc that was bad. In some eyes this may be QQ as i am shitting on your favorite Expansion (WOTLK) which shows how bad you are, if you LOVED wotlk it just means you got handed everything, raids were way easy, and 25 ICC Hardmodes were pugable much like Cata Firelands is today. I hope that Blizz can read this because i hope they go back to vanilla/ somewhat BC content when the game was enjoyable where as god knows they have millions to work on the game. i aint leaving but am close to it if the game continues to go downhill like this. In another case i hope they make an expansion where a endgame boss and raid takes months to down cause when you wiped and learned you were having fun an "LOLMOMENT" and alll the Wrath and Cata QQ's go away the game was perfect as vanila content.

  13. #573
    Quote Originally Posted by Felaful View Post
    That's what happens when you've only got 3 people working at Blizzard Headquarters at a time, especially when one is a CM and the other two are artists.

    Trust me, I have plenty of friends inside that building, and it's not the Disney World ride everyone thinks it is. It's very quickly falling apart.
    So, this "plenty"... obviously it's at most 3, since you said only 3 people work there. Or maybe these friends are sneaking in at night?
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  14. #574
    I'm wondering. By Cataclysm do they mean patch 4.0 where the world revamp happened. Cause if that's the case I'm betting on an Outland revamp + the raids and stuff and completion of things from the Cataclysm such as fixed Stormwind and completed Orgrimmar.

  15. #575
    catering to elitist jerks ruined it for the next x years

  16. #576
    Bloodsail Admiral Garbles's Avatar
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    This is what it comes down to, people that dont want to learn their class and get kicked from guilds, kicked from LFD grps, and get sat for raids, are all leaving. At this point, why would any caster dps in a hardcore raiding guild want to stop playing? Theyre getting a legendary... Honestly i dont really care whos leaving or how many are, its just one less idiot casual at a time, so keep it goin blizz, get the idiots off your servers. Im just fed up with all the "Ooo this games too hard, i want this and this and that, nerf this guy in here, and nerf this guy in there, mages are too hard, warriors are op, hunters are too op, etc etc" Like.... learn to pull your own weight and it wont be the case, but in this case it sounds like Blizzard is getting them all to leave, i applaud you Blizzard, ty for this day.

  17. #577
    People blaim ghostcrawler but he isnt the sole reason... Who is the main responsible for wow now is tom chilton, aka kalgan, the dude that DESTROYED ultima online. He was hated by wow players because he was the one previously responsible for PvP balance. That guy is a cancer.
    English is not my main language so grammar errors might happen.

  18. #578
    Well I, for one, an curious to see what happens in Q3.
    the same time it will be interesting to see what Blizzard will undertake to stop this.

    I really haven't seen any action taken on this up untill now.

  19. #579
    Pandaren Monk Deleo's Avatar
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    They are just milking the cow. WoW brazil will keep their shareholders happy for a while, and lets face it that little while is all they need to make it to Titan.
    I've walked the realms of the dead. I have seen the infinite dark. Nothing you say. Or do. Could possibly frighten me.
    We are not monsters! We are not the mindless wretches of a ghoul army! NO! We are a force even more terrifying! We are the chill in a coward's spine! We are the instruments of an unyielding ire! WE ARE THE FORSAKEN!
    Those who do not stand with the Forsaken stand against them. And those who stand against the Forsaken will not stand long.

  20. #580
    im pretty sure people have been complaining about the quality of
    the gameplay since the begginging
    nowadays i feel like its more about the sense of boredom people are having, even if they are complaining
    about the quality and x y z about the content they are really just bored because the core gameplay that
    has been rehashed repeatably for the like 6 or so years has gotten boring to people who have been playing
    and new players are left in the dust as there no longer is any sense of community in a realm, before you would get to know many of the people in your realm and see them a lot as you would spend time away from cities and actually going out in the world to go to the dungeons or quest or ect ect ect. these players experience would grow as you would meet friendly people to join up with and play around with in your server.
    for me: random dungeons and server wide dungeons, completely ruined the game for me, the second that shit hit, it started going downhill
    the most fun i ever had in the game (i started playing in mid bc) was at the beggining of wotlk, as there was a lot to do, and there was still that sense of community between people. i rarely see people in zones anymore, there is no sense of world left in world of warcraft.

    i feel like blizzard should focus on building up the world instead of focusing almost COMPLETELY on dungeons/raids

    dungeons and raids are a big part of the game overall but there is no way we can just do them over and over again without them getting boring. we need stuff happening in the world, things to do.
    raids and dungeons no matter the mechanics, are all the same just different look feel and ect. but its at the basic level, we are absorbing the gameplay.

    idk what but it used to feel as if there was stuff to do in the zones and now it just feels like your in an empty world unless your in orgrimmar/sw.

    if they really wanted to fix things, they could remove the dungeon finder: simple as that

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