Loot Issue

[Voytrekk]

Last night, my guild finally got down Alysrazor in 25m. Everyone was excited because this boss seemed to be quite a roadblock for us on 25 man. We had several good pieces drop, BUT, someone forgot to put master looter on. Well, I had the addon PassLoot on, and forgot to set the disenchant group to Dungeons only. Remembering this, I told all of the officers who were in skype to Need on all of the items, as they should have been doing normally. Well, no one did anything and bam, 3 of the pieces got disenchanted.

Now, because it was my addon that had the loot disenchanted, everyone immediately blamed me in the raid. I understand why they were blaming me, as my addon directly lead to the disenchanting of the loot. However, I had told the raid leader to set it to Master Looter right as we entered the raid and another time when the other officer entered the raid. I also called out for the officers to need roll on the loot, as if you leave the loot as passed, then anyone can take the loot from the boss, and then the loot becomes non-trade-able. After the raid, they kicked me from the call to discuss what they were going to do. They decided on wiping half my dkp and making it so I don't gain any dkp in next week's raid. My issue with this is that I was not the only person at fault, when I am the only one receiving any sort of punishment.

Now this issue makes me quite upset, or I wouldn't even post it here. I am not quite sure what I am going to do with this, but because of the way I have been treated in the guild by the other officers, I question my place in the guild. Other recent issues regarding positioning on bosses where they tell me basically, "Don't worry about this issue now, because we haven't gotten to it yet." This makes me wonder if they actually care about getting things done the best way. All of this has made me think about leaving the guild and applying to a new one. On the other hand, I know many people in the guild in real life, which makes it somewhat difficult to just leave the guild. My officer status also makes it feel like I am in a position where I can't leave the guild.

So my question for you guys is, who all is at fault, and what should I do given my situation.

[Deleted]

Do your officers realise that they may be able to get the items reimbursed if they ticket a GM?

I've had an item restored in the past when I accidentally DE'd the wrong thing and didn't realise until too late.

In which case, it seems like a bit of an over-reaction to me. Mistakes happen, whoevers "fault" it is (and it seems like there are multiple factors), it seems like it was an accident and is a situation that can be fixed.

If you are being punished, as an officer, for having an addon turned on that would not usually make a difference during raids, but the officer who is raid leader is not punished for the accident of not turning master looter on, then yes, it is unfair. As an officer, you should have been able to say sorry dudes, the other officer should have said yeah, my bad, I forgot ML, you ticket a GM, get stuff back, no drama, remember ML for next time.

Personally I wouldn't want to be an officer in a guild where the other officers have a meeting to decide how to punish me based on a simple accident, where other officers/raid leaders clearly had some responsibility too.

[Killbilly]

I'd probably leave. The punishment is way to severe for something that happened unintentionally and you tried several times to prevent. If they're going to penalize you that hard for something your addon accidentally did, they should punish the guy who's job it was to set master looter twice as hard.

[Deleted]

1. You are at fault maybe not 100% but still are. You chose to use the addon, YOU forgot to set it up correctly. Theres no getting around that.


However...


2. Wiping half your DKP and making it so you dont earn any next week may seem to them to be a suitable punishment, but you did say you explicitally told them to roll need as your addon "malfunctioned". They failed to do so, so they should take some of the blame too.

To the point, if i was in your position, i would repeat to them what happened, and the fact you did mention for all officers to roll need and they failed to do so. If they still refuse to accept any blame, /gquit and find a better guild.

[elgato]

Both you and the officers are at fault. They should have needed, and you should have had your addons squared away. But I side more with the officers on this. You're in a 25m guild that uses a DKP loot system, yes they should have needed, but in reality you also shouldn't have had your addon set like it was. If your addon had been set correctly nothing would have been disenchanted. (this might not make sense, I am a bit tired, but it makes sense in my head.)

Now what should you do? Put a ticket in telling what happened and I am sure the GMs can clear up the issue, they have the power to. But You should also find a new guild. DKP is a flaws loot system. If you insist on using a guild that uses a point system for loot find one that either uses suicide kings or EPGP. But one that uses loot council is best (assuming you want progression, and if you can find a guild where loot council isn't abused.)

[Kakuzo]

I think the punishment is way to hard tbh. The items can be gotten back, maybe you should lose some dkp untill the items are back. You also told them what happend on skype (or so you say) And you also told them to need, both parties made a mistake yours was just a silly addon.

[Nightbliss]

No point in having the hassle to talk things over.
Just leave the guild and find yourself a better place.

The reason? Simple.
Every other guild would see this as an unintentional and honest mistake and would just do what a normal person would do, ticket a GM and get the three items restored.

If they can't be bothered to make things right, then they aren't worth your time or hassle.

Both you and the officers are at fault. They should have needed, and you should have had your addons squared away. But I side more with the officers on this. You're in a 25m guild that uses a DKP loot system, yes they should have needed, but in reality you also shouldn't have had your addon set like it was. If your addon had been set correctly nothing would have been disenchanted. (this might not make sense, I am a bit tired, but it makes sense in my head.)

Now what should you do? Put a ticket in telling what happened and I am sure the GMs can clear up the issue, they have the power to. But You should also find a new guild. DKP is a flaws loot system. If you insist on using a guild that uses a point system for loot find one that either uses suicide kings or EPGP. But one that uses loot council is best (assuming you want progression, and if you can find a guild where loot council isn't abused.)

Here we go again, not this A is better than B conversation again.
All the loot systems are have pros and cons, all of them.

[Rork]

Guild > Raid > player > loot

It think it's stupid to make a fuss about a loot, its quite unhealty for a guild they should just forget about it and keep going.

You should not accept this, either leave or make them understand that they took a bad decision and that your unhappy about it.

[Deleted]

Hmm, I don't think you should have been punished, let alone so severely.

It all feels like shifting the blame and punishing someone for a series of events which led to this situation. Blaming the end station is a bit short-sighted.

Forgetting to turn on ML can happen of course, but normally someone should need on the items and simply pass them around then. Whenever we got surprised by the roll window our RL simply pressed need on the items. It all just sounds like a big misunderstanding.

I would suggest trying to reason with your RL/Officers in revertig the punishment. Since you wouldn't have needed the correct setting of your addon if they had paid a bit more attention. Perhaps you could offer to try to get the disenchanted items to the correct people.
I would have written a ticket explaining the situation to a GM and try to get a GM to "undisenchant" the items and pass them to the correct people in your raid.

If they are unwilling to listen to that proposal I don't know why you would want to stay in such a guild even if your friends are there. I mean you can still talk and group with them despite different guild tags.

[kosuko]

I'm sorry.. but really, fck your guild and their officers.. It's the raid leader that was stupid enough to leave group loot on, NOT you.. If than NONE of the officers is smart enough to press need that's even worse. You shouldn't have to take any blame at all there.

edit: just read that you are actually an officer in that guild... my opinion of your Guild leader and other officers just dropped even further -_-'

[Nightbliss]

Reverting the situation is possible.
I did it a couple of days ago. While farming FL trash I unconsciously pressed disenchant on the BoE tanking ring and after a ticket and 2 days wait time, a GM restored it without further questions. All he asked was to delete a Maelstrom Crystal.

[Triggirhape]

I am failing to grasp why the officers would not have needed anyways. Whenever our GM (and ML) is out of range of trash and something drops all Officers need while everyone else passes and the loot is then given to the GM to sell for the gbank.

There was no reason for them to pass on the loot as officers or the GM to begin with...

As for what you should do, point them to this thread and if they don't see how arrogant they are acting, then leave the guild. What they are doing is crazy. You're no way in fault for your officers and Raid Lead not putting loot on Master Loot or by passing on gear when there is the chance someone will roll d/e on it. I know plenty of people who just auto d/e everything with an add-on. Clicking disenchant and then the prompt gets annoying.

[franto]

This is the reason why i try to have only addons, which are really esential. I still remember how i sent all my heirloom items to a deleted character, only because of "postal" addon, which simple allowed it ....

About the punishment: if it would be me, i would cut you down all the points, which those items were worth. Quite expensive mealstrom crystals :-)

[Jinto]

The guild you are about to leave (hopefully) is too dumb to realize that 1) group loot was on 2) if group loot is on someone should need the loot to prevent DE (some people just click DE by habit) and 3) even if the worst happened you could ticket the items back. Oh and 4) loot is never worth guild drama.

[Téuntjûh]

I don't see a problem.
You ticket a gm, and get the epics back.
Make sure your guild gives you your dkp back when they get their items.
Job done.

[Deleted]

Odd choice by the Officers, surely they get the items back via GM and then give them out to the correct people.

No need to punish anyone, and maybe the RL could find a mod that automatically puts on ML .

Personally I'd leave, it's a massive overreaction and also very much like they are making you the scape goat for something that wasn't 100% your fault.

[Voytrekk]

Thanks for all of the responses. Just to clear some things up. I did open a ticket as did another member of our raid. He got his responded to quickly, while mine is still waiting. The GM basically told him that they couldn't do anything about it, and he definitely could not do anything with the other member of my raid, because he was not the one with the crystals. Also, as for the officers discussing it, the one officer who was basically the messenger for the punishment actually understood that it wasn't completely my fault, especially after I told him about how I had told the raid leader to set it to ML and how I explained why officers are supposed to need on the items when that happens, not just pass on it and let the items go to chance. He said they wanted to make an example of it, which to me says, we are just going to give you all of the blame. I also disabled the addon by their request even though I fixed it so it would never happen in a raid again.

[Auloria]

He said they wanted to make an example of it

Make an example of the guild, and quit. No one should stand for being treated that way for a simple misunderstanding and shared responsibility.

[Awnetu]

I don't see a problem.
You ticket a gm, and get the epics back.
Make sure your guild gives you your dkp back when they get their items.
Job done.

The issue would be that the other officers were so willing to punish him, rather harshly too, for something that was the fault of the other officers as well.

---------- Post added 2011-08-04 at 03:46 PM ----------

Thanks for all of the responses. Just to clear some things up. I did open a ticket as did another member of our raid. He got his responded to quickly, while mine is still waiting. The GM basically told him that they couldn't do anything about it, and he definitely could not do anything with the other member of my raid, because he was not the one with the crystals. Also, as for the officers discussing it, the one officer who was basically the messenger for the punishment actually understood that it wasn't completely my fault, especially after I told him about how I had told the raid leader to set it to ML and how I explained why officers are supposed to need on the items when that happens, not just pass on it and let the items go to chance. He said they wanted to make an example of it, which to me says, we are just going to give you all of the blame. I also disabled the addon by their request even though I fixed it so it would never happen in a raid again.

Make an example? Of what? That the officers are little brats who cant be bothered to accept the fact that they are to blame for a series of simple mistakes wiping out purple pixels? Gquit that guild asap, they certainly don't value you enough to be worth your time.

Seriously, how the hell is that 'making an example'? From what you have told us, the raids are always on Master Looter(so this should never have been a possibility), this mistake happened once, and it was the raid leaders fault moreso than anyone else.

[ManOfMalice]

That's utterly pathetic to be honest, you shouldn't be punished because of their stupidity. They should learn to listen to people when they're told to fix a problem before it's become one.