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  1. #1

    LFM - Link Achievement = Epic Fail

    Disclaimer: No trolls, no flaming. If you do not have something constructive to say, dont say it.

    I have a question and a comment.

    Q: Before going into a Raid, why do I have to show you the achievement that I previously completed it?

    Q: How am I suppose to earn the achievement if no group will take me because I already dont have the achievement?

    Comment: It makes no sense to me. I understand people want to see if you know what you are doing or whatever, which is fine... how about look at past achievements?

    This is something that really irks me... i can never get into a group to go Pug a boss, even an old boss without previously having the achievement. If I already have the achievement, chances are im not looking to down the same boss again unless I am just going for gear or w/e. Its like a catch 22.

    So your thoughts please

  2. #2
    High Overlord Vieke's Avatar
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    Just get yourself a guild who does alt runs or gear runs for the less fortunate.
    /thread

  3. #3
    Herald of the Titans Yakobro's Avatar
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    Never really had a problem getting into a raid that "req" ach even though I've not had it done.

    So long as you have decent enough gear (can get 365+ with only raid drops being trash) and show somehow you know what to do they tend not to mind.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by DMac84 View Post
    Disclaimer: No trolls, no flaming. If you do not have something constructive to say, dont say it.

    I have a question and a comment.

    Q: Before going into a Raid, why do I have to show you the achievement that I previously completed it?

    Q: How am I suppose to earn the achievement if no group will take me because I already dont have the achievement?

    Comment: It makes no sense to me. I understand people want to see if you know what you are doing or whatever, which is fine... how about look at past achievements?

    This is something that really irks me... i can never get into a group to go Pug a boss, even an old boss without previously having the achievement. If I already have the achievement, chances are im not looking to down the same boss again unless I am just going for gear or w/e. Its like a catch 22.

    So your thoughts please
    I

    I agree aswell. But the concern is that someone who has never stepped foot into that raid will either mess it up for everyone or ask for detailed boss strats each pull, without having first looked them up. I've seen it happen a few times.

    Alot of people who join raid pugs are doing it for gear, not just for the achievement. I myself don't do it anymore, I don't raid and prefer to pvp these days.

    The only way to bend the rules on this is if you can convince someone that you know the strat, or have down x number of bosses but the groups never lasted to the end, or whatever.. Or make your own pugs and invite everyone freely
    Quote Originally Posted by Dominating View Post
    I wish Blizzard would realize that adding features designed to achieve convenience for players in turn make this game more of a job

  5. #5
    I am in a guild with friends. You know, thats why we play this game. To play with friends and stuff.

    But you know, there are times when we can raid this week because people are gone or working, no one wants to raid because their gear sucks.

    So sometimes you have to PUG... and it should be more inviting. Im not saying PUG with all noobs, we all see how the random heroics go. But at least look at past achievements of other raids and stuff you have done. Chances are if you completed, Naxx, Uludar, ICC, BOT, BWD... you can handle FL without showing you have already downed the bosses there.

  6. #6
    if someone wants a smooth run that guarantees youve at *least* seen the dungeon, but probably know the fights and have enough skill and gear to clear it, is completely fine. join a guild.

  7. #7
    Have you tried to tell the pug leader some of the tactics for some of the bosses?
    Always work for me.

    There was ICC10 run for Bane of the Fallen king, and i wanted to join with my alt,
    i told him about shadowtraps, about defile, about frostmourne room, and i've got an inv.
    So just try that next time,
    or you can always get Underachiever, and link fake achv's like everyone else and get a spot.

  8. #8
    When raid leads ask for achievements and ilevels its more like a wishlist. If you're off by a little they still might take you. Depends on how desperate they are. Doesn't hurt to try.

  9. #9
    Cool. Well ty all for the advice and constructive discussion.

    I understand, I just wanted to see others thoughts and what others might change about it if they could.

  10. #10
    Usually pug raids on my server goes something like this:

    PUGLeader: LFM BOT link achi and item lvl!
    RandomPlayer: Can I join? I have the achievement on my main.
    PUGLeader: Noob! No achi=no raid! I got achi long ago was so easy noob! Bye noob!
    *a while later when the raid has been filled and the final boss is downed*
    PUGLeader has earned the achievement [Lying about having the achievement]

    TL;DR People are asking for achievements because they don't have it themselves and wants to get carried to it.

  11. #11
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unknown User View Post
    Usually pug raids on my server goes something like this:

    PUGLeader: LFM BOT link achi and item lvl!
    RandomPlayer: Can I join? I have the achievement on my main.
    PUGLeader: Noob! No achi=no raid! I got achi long ago was so easy noob! Bye noob!
    *a while later when the raid has been filled and the final boss is downed*
    PUGLeader has earned the achievement [Lying about having the achievement]

    TL;DR People are asking for achievements because they don't have it themselves and wants to get carried to it.
    Basically this. Anyone who wants people that:

    A) Have equal gear to the level obtained in the content or outgear it
    B) Have the achievement

    wants to be carried. For instance, the T11 raids were designed pre-nerf to be done in 346 gear; with the nerfs 346 gear is perfectly fine to run them, but idiots will demand 358+ gear plus the achievement to bring anyone. This is nonsense.
    NOBLESHIELD
    <Meliora> of Turalyon-US
    Raids & Dungeons Moderator


  12. #12
    It's not nonsense. It's simple: be there when new content is released and no one will ask you for achievements, because nobody has any.

    Imagine the following: You were there when T11 started, you worked your way up, starting in 346 gear, spent hours and hours wiping on normal modes when you finally reach, lets say, 12/12 NHC.

    Now, your guild tells you to stay out for this ID, and ofc you still want to complete it. You want to pug it and are able to choose from:

    a) Someone who has never seen BWD or BoT from inside, that has barely read a guide and saw the first 2 minutes of a Video.

    b) Someone who has done all those fights. People who worked their way up the ladder just like you, who wiped hours and know the fight and its mechanics 110%.

    Who would you choose?


    Sure, it's a different thing now after the nerfs. But you can't deny the advantage of choosing someone who has already done the fight over someone who still has to learn it (although there are many who only have those Achievements because they were carried).
    Last edited by reauxmont; 2011-08-05 at 02:09 AM.

  13. #13
    Start your own group and don't complain about how others run their own raid?

  14. #14
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    achivements should be accountbound, makes stuff way easier so you dont get to deal with all the herpderps on your alts.
    also, i like what blizz did with the new bh boss, no achi

  15. #15
    I understand your concern but it all boils down to 1 thing.

    PuG's are not there to teach you how the raids work, and they only want to clear it fast with as much loot as possible. There's no getting away from this mentality.

  16. #16
    Q1. The ones leading the raid must have already cleared said raid and are only interested in others that have cleared said raid. Pugs are always a risk so to ensure the safest and quickest run you ideally get pugs with the most experience.

    Q2: You either join a guild that still runs those raids or you start a pug of your own.

    I have ignored a lot of the PvE content this expansion so I'm kind of in the same boat. If your really desperate to join a raid that requires the achievement then maybe just whisper the guy that you have the ilvl and have studied all the fights. They may be willing to take your word for it especially if they are trying to fill the raid faster.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by butterzz View Post
    achivements should be accountbound, makes stuff way easier so you dont get to deal with all the herpderps on your alts.
    That doesn't help.

    Just because you know how to DPS Chimaeron doesn't mean you know how to heal it.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by reauxmont View Post
    It's not nonsense. It's simple: be there when new content is released and no one will ask you for achievements, because nobody has any.

    Imagine the following: You were there when T11 started, you worked your way up, starting in 346 gear, spent hours and hours wiping on normal modes when you finally reach, lets say, 12/12 NHC.

    Now, your guild tells you to stay out for this ID, and ofc you still want to complete it. You want to pug it and are able to choose from:

    a) Someone who has never seen BWD or BoT from inside, that has barely read a guide and saw the first 2 minutes of a Video.

    b) Someone who has done all those fights. People who worked their way up the ladder just like you, who wiped hours and know the fight and its mechanics 110%.

    Who would you choose?


    Sure, it's a different thing now after the nerfs. But you can't deny the advantage of choosing someone who has already done the fight over someone who still has to learn it (although there are many who only have those Achievements because they were carried).
    What about option c) Someone who hasn't seen BWD or BoT from the inside, has only started wanting to raid this expansion but has spent time watching strat guides, has read up on each boss, has spent time getting the best gear they can get, gemmed/reforged/enchanted correctly, has flasks and buff food.

    Or even option d) Someone who has kingslayer (among others) dated from when it was hard to get, had to sit out for the raids at the start because of other issues, knows their class inside out, knows boss mechanics, has everything they need to be a valued member.

    Don't forget about poor option e) Someone who has the achievement after being carried through, average gear, some enchants, doesn't pull their weight, doesn't give more than they have to.

    Edit:

    I recently asked to join a BWD pug, leader asked for achievement which i didn't have. So i said i've read all the tactics for BWD and know all the boss mechanics. He tested me by saying "council tactics" to which i assumed he meant omnitron (seeing as that is the council type fight in BWD), he responds with "OMG n00b! Thats omnitron n00b" so i quickly pointed out that the council he wanted tacts for was in a different raid and that why would someone test someone about the wrong raid.
    Last edited by Reganom; 2011-08-05 at 02:23 AM.

  19. #19
    Bloodsail Admiral Ethes's Avatar
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    I saw someone looking for people to do BWD with. He demanded atleast item level 365 or higher.... I lolled!

    But yes, a lot of pugs are run this way. Whenever I organise something I much rather ask people specifics about a certain fight + what kinda dps they do. The most brilliant awnser to those questions is always when people awnser: "DK Melee iL 361" .. At that point you know atleast who not to bring.

    Same for people who respond on a message in LFG "LF 1 tank for BH, last spot" and go like "Need a mage? ilvl 369" Makes me think that some people are just mentally challenged.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Ethes View Post
    I saw someone looking for people to do BWD with. He demanded atleast item level 365 or higher.... I lolled!

    But yes, a lot of pugs are run this way. Whenever I organise something I much rather ask people specifics about a certain fight + what kinda dps they do. The most brilliant awnser to those questions is always when people awnser: "DK Melee iL 361" .. At that point you know atleast who not to bring.

    Same for people who respond on a message in LFG "LF 1 tank for BH, last spot" and go like "Need a mage? ilvl 369" Makes me think that some people are just mentally challenged.
    The only problem with that is the amount of times i've seen those same posts from a group i'm already in. The same group that need 1 tank 1 healer and 1 DPS.

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