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  1. #41
    High Overlord Stefanos123's Avatar
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    Well back at Wotlk i could finnaly raid in naxxramas and there was a mage in our guild we told him what to do at vent and in raid chat but he died time after time every boss.
    but he didn't released so he got achievement but he still didn't know what to do for about 3-4 times.
    sometimes achievements don't have to say anything.
    Always look on the bright side of life

  2. #42
    Brewmaster Gotai's Avatar
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    I organize pugs on my realm sometimes and I never ask anyone to link their achieve's.

    Before the person gets invited, I armory his name and check - if he doesn't has the achieve on that char (happens, I have alot of alts aswell with spread achieve's), I ask them if they completed the raid on their main. If so, they name me their main and I check/carry on. If not, I give them the time to check a vid or so while we fill up the group.

    Cleared 5/6 BWD Wednesday this way with a fairly good group - just had to replace a tank twice but got quite far on Nefarion. The other fights were pretty much one-shotted.

    Ilevel 350 minimum for me (or full PVE/enchanted can be a bit lower) - no PVP items (despite them being 370+) and some experience is nice (doesn't has to be 6/6 to join my pug tbh).

    If you struggle with getting into pugs because they ask achieve's, download underachiever.
    If they ask people to join and don't ask for an achievement (even after whisper) - don't whisper your faked achievement - we will check you on armory and lying = no invite ;-).

  3. #43
    Make your own group then.
    Belief can become reality!

  4. #44
    MAN. Mest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMac84 View Post
    Disclaimer: No trolls, no flaming. If you do not have something constructive to say, dont say it.

    I have a question and a comment.

    Q: Before going into a Raid, why do I have to show you the achievement that I previously completed it?

    Q: How am I suppose to earn the achievement if no group will take me because I already dont have the achievement?

    Comment: It makes no sense to me. I understand people want to see if you know what you are doing or whatever, which is fine... how about look at past achievements?

    This is something that really irks me... i can never get into a group to go Pug a boss, even an old boss without previously having the achievement. If I already have the achievement, chances are im not looking to down the same boss again unless I am just going for gear or w/e. Its like a catch 22.

    So your thoughts please
    Prove to the raid leader that you're a capable and reasonable player
    Join a group of others who haven't completed it previously
    Join a guild and play with them
    Organize a group yourself
    Lie to the raid leader
    Buy your way in

    The possibilities are endless!
    Last edited by Mest; 2011-08-05 at 09:56 AM.

  5. #45
    i like when people dont invite me to BH because i dont have the occutar achievement...

  6. #46
    Mechagnome Mulled's Avatar
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    To be honest, when I make a pug I want people who have atleast a few heroics kill on farm, I don't like to carry people, although there are a few exceptions I only run with BiS players, that's just my preference you have to look around bro.

    But in saying that, If I was to pug say Heroic BWD now I'd want someone with heroic achivements or atleast a good reputation/Ilevel to the heroic content,I would look for 362+ Because I know I have the majority of players with 382+ so it works in both ways, if I've got a tremendous amount of guildies with 378+ Ilevel, I slack off on the pugs for their sake.


    But when I run a couldron run or a cash run where my guildies and I sell items, I bring in aslow as 340 but bring in less and more 378+ you see?..
    Last edited by Mulled; 2011-08-05 at 09:56 AM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Huntermyth View Post
    change is almost always good, embrace it.

  7. #47
    The Patient tehhuntard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevoman View Post
    That doesn't help.

    Just because you know how to DPS Chimaeron doesn't mean you know how to heal it.
    could not think of a better example nor a truer post

  8. #48
    Probably because the raid leader (and the rest of the people in the raid who have the achiev) doesn't want to spend an hour wiping on shit waiting for people to learn how to do the fight.

    Fact is, no matter how many videos you watched or strats you have read, odds are if you haven't killed the boss, your going to fuck it, and most of these fights, especially on 10 man, can be fucked by one player. Sure you might be that rare player that can get it on the first try, but how is the raid leader supposed to know that? Odds are you are just like the other 95% of wow who need 20 wipes to learn what fire not to stand in. I can't count the number of rag pugs I've wiped in waiting for people to learn the engulfing flames mechanic.

    If your main is a hunter and has the achiev and you want to bring your warlock? Fine, who cares. If your main is a hunter and you want to bring your resto druid? Not a chance.

    If you want to "learn the fights" then learn it on your own time, with other people who have similar goals. Why should you waste 9 other players' time just because you didn't want to join the appropriate raid?

    I really like the "scenarios" people posted as if it matter in the big picture. Those scenarios are the exception, and when your pugging players, you are rolling the dice. Sure the guy without the achievement might be some amazing player on their alt, and the guy with the achievement might have gotten carried. But the fact of the matter is the guy without the achievement PROBABLY is going to fail the fight, and the guy with the achievement PROBABLY won't. And if the only thing you can think to respond to this statement is "but...I know this one guy who blah blah blah" - learn what the word PROBABLY means.
    Last edited by cleotaurus; 2011-08-05 at 10:16 AM.

  9. #49
    Field Marshal Topork's Avatar
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    Just try to pug some bosses as a raidleader, and you will understand why they ask for achievement. It's amazing how stupid people can be.

  10. #50
    One of the things that makes me laugh, is the person asking if you have the achi, doesn't have it themselves.

  11. #51
    Brewmaster Gotai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glomp View Post
    One of the things that makes me laugh, is the person asking if you have the achi, doesn't have it themselves.
    Yeah, usually I reply with something like that aswell if I'm on my of my alts (but without the achieve).. Gotten me into groups before.

    Same can be said about 70's asking for 85's only for raid X, which comes down to "lf boosters - not paying - come get ur fancy achieve!" - but that's an entirely different topic.

    But I kinda agree with Steve, if you have someone that did content as a DPS and suddenly brings in his healer, the achieve means jack shit!

  12. #52
    This is all totally a matter of whatever you expect from a raid. personnally i raid 3 times a week with my main and once a week with my twink. i organize the twinkraid. and usually we need 3-4 pugs to fill up the stock. so if someone wants to join i check him on the armory. my first look goes to his experience. i usually dont take anyone to our 6/7 twinkraid who doesnt at least have 3/7, descent t11 hardmode experience or a well progressed main.
    for me it's a twinkgearraid. we rush through the 6 bosses in 2.5 hours and im not really willing to progress there. just cant stand explayining alysrazor again and again and again and see them fail in tornados several consecutive times nevertheless.
    if you however meet the experience (neither with your main or w/e) then i usually dont bother if youre itemlevel 360 as long as you did spent some time.

    additionally i do some twinkraids with my other (low equipped/low experienced) toons but i usually have no issues getting intop a raid at all. theres plenty of ppl like me that take an underexperienced toon with them as long as there is mainexperience. and if you are undergeared, some wol parses do wonders. (pre)pot, pull your weight youre usually #1 dps in any fight anyways.

    tldr:
    pugs =farmraids
    Guildruns = Progression raids

  13. #53
    Bloodsail Admiral Ethes's Avatar
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    Why do people think that healing/tanking/dpsing is alltogether so different?

    Sure, if you play a dps character the things you have to be doing are slightly different from a healing or a tank role. But you can expect from someone who cleared heroic modes that they know how to play their character well enough to also fulfill a healing or tank role. It's not like they never did that before, they just didn't do that specific fight. I would bring someone with hc mode achievements on his main or a full clear pre-nerf to BWD or BoT 100-times over someone who didn't, even if they haven't healed or tanked a specific fight before.

    And about the part "I don't want to explain tactics" if you don't want to, don't pug! You will 9 out of 10 times ending up explaining bossfights.

    But I have to admit, some pugs are wonderfully good, managed to 1shot Cho'gall the other day. I was pleasantly suprised!

  14. #54
    Moderator Wilderness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMac84 View Post
    Q: How am I suppose to earn the achievement if no group will take me because I already dont have the achievement?

    Comment: It makes no sense to me. I understand people want to see if you know what you are doing or whatever, which is fine... how about look at past achievements?
    The problem with your question is that you seem to be assuming that a PUG looking for people in trade is there to help you get the achievement or the experience on bosses. There is absolutely nothing wrong with people who want to try and make a run go smoother by requiring that people have seen and done the fights before. It is their right to want to raid in that situation. Now, obviously that isn't the case for all groups, and I'm sure you can find PUGs that won't ask for an achievement or who will let you in based on just your gear/enchants/etc.

    On the subject of account-wide achievements I do think that's a good thing because it shows you've done the fight. Just like guild achievements they could easily put the character(s) that you've done it on so when you link it someone can see it wasn't on the toon you are on. Then they ask if you've healed Chim before and you say no, I've only dps'd. But I know how to spread out, I know how to stack up for feuds, I know there are tank swaps for breaks, I know that everyone needs to be above 10k, I know that 2 slimes go out at a time (on 10s), I know we have to heal up before we push into P2 and that I can't heal anyone in P2. Sure, it may take an attempt or two to get used to what heals I need to do the job, but that's way ahead of where someone who hasn't done the fight before will be.
    Raids & Dungeons Mod | <Despotism> 14/14H (10-man); 14/14H (25-man); 2 Days/Week US-Greymane <> Recruiting for Mythic

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Ethes View Post
    Why do people think that healing/tanking/dpsing is alltogether so different?

    Sure, if you play a dps character the things you have to be doing are slightly different from a healing or a tank role. But you can expect from someone who cleared heroic modes that they know how to play their character well enough to also fulfill a healing or tank role. It's not like they never did that before, they just didn't do that specific fight. I would bring someone with hc mode achievements on his main or a full clear pre-nerf to BWD or BoT 100-times over someone who didn't, even if they haven't healed or tanked a specific fight before.

    And about the part "I don't want to explain tactics" if you don't want to, don't pug! You will 9 out of 10 times ending up explaining bossfights.

    But I have to admit, some pugs are wonderfully good, managed to 1shot Cho'gall the other day. I was pleasantly suprised!
    Just because you know how to heal doesn't mean you know how to heal baleroc. Just because you know how to tank doesn't mean you know how to tank alysrazor. Different fights are different, and you still have to learn how the mechanics are handled for each respective role.

    I would say the only role that can really cross into the others with relative ease is healing, because generally you see and understand everything that is going on when you are responsible for keeping the raid alive.

  16. #56
    I did 5/13 HM last tier on my main, yet trying to run an alt through pug raids is apparently impossible despite the fact that both my two level 85 characters are melee DPS, Death Knight main and a Paladin alt. The reason is because every asshat running the raid thinks that achievement = skill or that people know what they are doing.
    Last edited by Rennadrel; 2011-08-05 at 12:05 PM.

  17. #57
    Brewmaster Csunforgiven's Avatar
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    Come to Dawnbringer sometime, I'm constantly pugging raids. I don't ask for achievements anymore, simply because its not hard ​to teach someone a fight. They'll learn, and if they can't, replace them.

  18. #58
    Q: Before going into a Raid, why do I have to show you the achievement that I previously completed it?

    Q: How am I suppose to earn the achievement if no group will take me because I already dont have the achievement?
    A: Because the guy that goes through the immensly aggravating trouble to organize a raid wants you to

    A: Not the raid leader's problem.

    I don't know where you got the impression from that trade raids are a kind of service to get people who can't commit to a raiding guild into raid content.

  19. #59
    The one cheev I'm lacking from last tier is ToFW (I was absent on my guild's only Al'akir kill after successfully killing Conclave).

    I know the fight itself, have 367 (equipped) iLvl - and I cannot get into some of those runs that are looking for achievements (the rest, on my server, tend to take too long to fill and never happen)...

    I mean, seriously?

    I realize that *some* system needs to be in place (I've organized ICC achievement runs in my time and ended up doing a mix of Q&A and armory browsing), but the defacto belief that not having the achievement = having-downs is just ludicrous. More so believing that having an achievement means you don't have downs :P


    I've even seen a DK with 190 iLvl gear trying to organize a HM ICC run...

    190.

    We ran that shit in 240/250 on Normal, and he was demanding Kingslayers until I linked my Bane, got an invite, pulled him up on armory and told both /ra AND trade what his gear level was... and that was 190 WITH marrowgar's choker AND at least one mail drop from ICC!
    Last edited by Spleen; 2011-08-05 at 01:25 PM.
    Just another bad mage playing his class badly...
    Worst Mage EVAR!

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Glomp View Post
    One of the things that makes me laugh, is the person asking if you have the achi, doesn't have it themselves.
    i call these people out in trade. good luck getting that raid together now.

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