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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Taistee View Post
    This topic interests me. I'm starting to raid seriously again on my priest, and I run with about 2900 spirit with fully procced DMC:T (my other trinket is the regular Eye from Alysrazor, so no extra regen from that). While I dont find myself running into any mana issues, I'm kind of wary as to how much spirit I can stand to drop if I alter my playstyle. Currently, I kind of just spam greater if the damage isn't on 4 or more people in the same group and spread bubbles around when I know they will be taking damage, regardless of rapture. This seems to net me a decent 10-13k HPS depending on the fight. but I can't help but feel that I could be getting more from the amount of mana I spend and dropping spirit doesn't help me feel better about it.
    it's all about maximising your hpm without letting people die.
    a large portion of that is knowing the fights (understatement alert)

    if a person takes 99% of their health in 1 hit most sane people will land some pretty high hps spells on them to top them (shield + fheal for example). however if they aren't going to take damage for the next 30sec then you can probably afford to take your time.

    being a good healer is all about knowing the fights (and the people you play with to an extent). predicting the incoming damage is important for every healer, not just disc.
    as is working with your other healers. do you need to top those people up or does that rdruid probably have it covered?

    spend time learning how much each of your spells heal for, how much they cost and how they interact. Is 3x PoH on a group with 3 people injured more effective that 3x gheal?

    that combined with smart CD timing and knowing your gear (do you have more mp5 than needed for a fight? can you spare some mana on shielding more people? etc)

    it all adds up.
    practise, and logical thinking will get you 99% of the way.
    Redsparowe#2548 <Crayola Inc>, Lightbringer EU

  2. #22
    As a smite disc priest I go with mastery reforging at the moment but do not reforge away spirit. I'm sitting at 2095 spirit, 15.07% crit, 10.14% haste and 14.83 mastery, the spirit gives me 2414mp5 IC before buffs. After buffs, flasks, food etc I sit at ~136k mana, 3kish mp5 (3.4k with 2pc T12), 21%+ crit (Higher if i get FM), 15%+ haste (higher if i get DI).

    to be honest we are only 3/7 in FL normals and every progression fight I have mana to spare and on Beth healing the downstairs tank/raid sit ~14-15k hps comfortably. Intelligent use of Rapture, Archangel, old VP trinket, Shadowfiend, Power Infusion and concentration pots really help out any mana issues that may arise.

    The problem I have with super spirit stacking is you can lose a fair chunk of throughput on wasted mana at the end of a fight.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redsparrow View Post
    it's all about maximising your hpm without letting people die.
    a large portion of that is knowing the fights (understatement alert)

    if a person takes 99% of their health in 1 hit most sane people will land some pretty high hps spells on them to top them (shield + fheal for example). however if they aren't going to take damage for the next 30sec then you can probably afford to take your time.

    being a good healer is all about knowing the fights (and the people you play with to an extent). predicting the incoming damage is important for every healer, not just disc.
    as is working with your other healers. do you need to top those people up or does that rdruid probably have it covered?

    spend time learning how much each of your spells heal for, how much they cost and how they interact. Is 3x PoH on a group with 3 people injured more effective that 3x gheal?

    that combined with smart CD timing and knowing your gear (do you have more mp5 than needed for a fight? can you spare some mana on shielding more people? etc)

    it all adds up.
    practise, and logical thinking will get you 99% of the way.
    While I agree with maxing HPM while not letting people die, I'd like to maximise my HPS too, because what is 50k mana worth at the end of the encounter when I could have used it during it to make it less stressful on the other heals? What it really boils down to for me I guess is learning the encounters and timing my CD's, and the only encounter I really pay attention on for timing is Alysrazor, but that's just to make the druids tranq in p4 heal for less than it already does. ^_^

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Redsparrow View Post
    True but only because mp5 from spirit increases as intellect increases. (so increasing item level will increase mp5 even if your spirit remains constant).
    Although this is definitely true, it's misunderstood. the amount by which mp5 rises per 100 points of int is pretty negligible.
    The more accurate explanation would be this: int-based mana returns become self supporting as int rises, so you don't need as much spirit. Mainly rapture and SF, but AA figures in here too.

    Some math to justify:
    R=C*(squarerootof[I])*S

    dR/dI = C*S/(2*sqrt[I])
    dR/dS = C*sqrt[I]

    So, regen gained by stacking int or spirit, if you have 5800 int, 2200 spirit:
    dR/dI = C*14.4 [C is a multiplier that depends on clvl. doesn't matter for this illustration]
    dR/dS = C*76.6

    [dR/dS]/[dR/dI] = 5.3

    what does it mean? At current gear levels, 1 point of spirit grants 5 times more static regen than 1 point of int. This disparity grows as you stack int. That is, the higher your int, the less regen that next point of int will grant you.

    Higher int relieves the need for spirit because of int-based mana return procs. Shadowfiend, Rapture, AA (even though a case can be made for AA being a net manaloss, it still factors in). Since Holy priests don't get nearly as many of these, they still need to whore spirit .
    Last edited by zakaluka; 2011-08-06 at 05:52 PM.

  5. #25
    @zak.
    totally right.

    I was avoiding any int based regen other than it's effect on spirit and going with a simple more/less.

    but really the point is: more int is never bad.
    Redsparowe#2548 <Crayola Inc>, Lightbringer EU

  6. #26
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    Just noticed this thread thought i should post aswell

    Non AA spec
    25 man guild 6/7

    Running with 1895 / 2495 DC:T non buffed (2100 mastery, 1000 crit, 553 haste)
    132k Mana Raid buffed.

    All i can say rapture is awesome

  7. #27
    I have 2,6k spirit at the moment but I'm thinking about reforging nearly everything I can to crit or maybe mastery.
    On the German forums I've seen this discussion as well. And it turned out that even with a mere 1k spirit you should have no mana problems at all in Firelands (10hc/25hc) if you time your Rapture right.
    I used to think "I need every bit of spirit I can get" as well but it seems that everyone who tries getting away from that stat just increases throughput by a lot - and still have more than enough mana. I'll try using 1,75k at first and then go down periodically until I'm at the perfect balance between throughput and regen.

  8. #28
    High Overlord Lundmark's Avatar
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    10man - Raid healer(with Dru and Shaman)
    Hastebuild non AA
    1/2 Veiled Shadows

    18.5% HST
    14.52% CRT
    10.66 MST(26%)

    Combat regen unbuff: 2796 or 3070(dmc)
    123K manapool unbuffed

    For HPS i rely on my haste :>
    On this level of regen i cast PoH even though my grps is topped off... just to stack some Aegis for fun(trying to beat my druid co-healer when he can Tranq-cheat)
    I also noticing that I cast Flash Heal alot more then before... just to snipe some heals

    More regen is never bad... cut one healer or pull the load of a lesser geared backup-healer for some fights.
    We usualy only have one set of gear for starters and that gona cover for all bosses, and all kind of scenarios(save that aggrowhore of a dps when they "tanking" for a while - Have a fun and succeful fight anyways).
    Until i get to some HC modes I use my extra regen to mess with the other healers on the meter :P
    Last edited by Lundmark; 2011-08-10 at 11:02 AM.

  9. #29
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    After a boatload of hc Rhyolith attempts, I've decided that I can stand to lose a bunch of spirit, but I'd like to wait until I have 2pc t12. ~2k seems like enough, though I may need more for the more heal heavy heroic modes.

  10. #30
    High Overlord Whicker's Avatar
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    2100 spirit with doll and eye, i use tsunami or rep trinket for mana intensive fights (baleroc, Rag, domo)

    If you have an addon and time Rapture perfectly you could go as low as 1800 with a decent sized mana pool (over 130k buffed). Everyone under 1800spi arent healing enough or have like 160k mana...

  11. #31
    I'm not doing Hardmodes yet (our team is still learning Rag) so take my numbers with a grain of salt. I might regret lacking spirit later.

    Right now I currently have 2316 spirit unbuffed, but that is with Fiery Quintessence so I guess I'm sub 2k if/when I replace that trinket with a throughput one.

    As others have said, how much spirit disc can do without is all about being smart with our cooldowns and mana returns.
    I'm a blood elf and also an engineer. That gives me access to Arcane Torrent every 2 minutes and 480 Int every minute. With Power Torrent and Fiery Quintessence I also have have 2 huge int-boosts available. Making to sure to proc Rapture and Arcane Torrent in line with any or all of these int boosts is how I get through fights.
    With a Rapture timer and Power Auras showing me when my Gloves, Trinket, Power Torrent and Arcane Torrent are up, I don't normally miss anything.

    Rapture with Power Torrent and Fiery Quintessence currently returns over 11k mana, which is nice.

    Like I said though, once I get to hardmodes I'll be able to speak about how good/bad low spirit is.

  12. #32
    We're 5/7 hm 10m atm and I usually run around 1800 spirit + FoM / Tsunami (= ~2600ish spirit), which actually feels like way too much for most fights. Spirit is simply not a good regen stat for disc; it only gives you around 0.7 mp5 per point, which works out to around 50 mana over the course of a 6 minute fight. To put that in perspective, dumping the entire passive 400 spirit from tsunami only costs you about 20k mana over the entire fight, which is pretty trivial considering rapture alone should get you 200k+ mana in the same time frame (and replenishment/fiend should get you close to another 100k).

  13. #33
    Banned Frenikk's Avatar
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    Recently made my alt priest my main and currently on 1/7 FL heroic (10s). Rolling with 2.3k spirit without either of my trinkets up and I'm finding it way too much, finishing fights with plenty mana left and I feel I'm constantly casting, so hopefully I'll be dropping some and increasing my haste/crit when I get more gear.

  14. #34
    6/7 10m HC

    Unbuffed:

    2656 spirit
    2868 combat regen
    6859 intellect
    19.02 mastery
    14.79% crit
    5.44% haste

    Running with hc Fall of Mortality and Shard of Woe, non AA spec - only AA on domo.

    With these specs I'm always begging for innervates and on the verge on oom on most HC fights - Love it
    Last edited by Line; 2011-08-08 at 03:42 PM.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Reakash View Post
    I got rid of all excess spirit on my paladin for Firelands and regemmed pure intellect. I have 3250 OOC (Out Of Combat) regen unbuffed and nearly 3K in combat I believe (Need to look again). I have no issues healing and don't ever go OOM except for intensive fights.
    Disc != paladin...

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Line View Post
    2656 spirit

    With these specs I'm always begging for innervates and on the verge on oom on most HC fights - Love it
    Then you're obviously not managing your mana cooldowns very well (except for Baleroc, I can understand having mana issues there) I'd say.

    I just reforged and lost 1000 spirit and guess what. I can't even feel ANY kind of difference regarding my mana.
    If you're effictively timing Rapture well you can get through without problems even with less than 1000 spirit I think. I just went for crit and you can really feel the difference. It's much better in my opinion.
    Last edited by Zelos; 2011-08-08 at 08:21 PM.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos View Post
    Then you're obviously not managing your mana cooldowns very well (except for Baleroc, I can understand having mana issues there) I'd say.

    I just reforged and lost 1000 spirit and guess what. I can't even feel ANY kind of difference regarding my mana.
    If you're effictively timing Rapture well you can get through without problems even with less than 1000 spirit I think. I just went for crit and you can really feel the difference. It's much better in my opinion.
    I might have exaggerated a bit ;p But I'm always pushing it as much as possible. Less that 1000 spirit is completely unrealistic in most HC fights though imo, unless your running AA. I'm certain there are ways I can improve my gameplay, but with my playstyle oom is always just around the corner

    I've always gone by the motto that any mana thats left after the boss is dead is a waste

  18. #38
    Im currently at 2639 as a human. I think it just about the right amount.

  19. #39
    The Patient Madam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos View Post
    Then you're obviously not managing your mana cooldowns very well (except for Baleroc, I can understand having mana issues there) I'd say.

    Or, Line is just leaning on PW:S spam, he is stacking mastery and 5% haste, yeah, you need your spirit for that play style.

    What many Disc Priests are finding out is with less focus on PW:S, you can drop a ton of Spirit for more throughput, creating a much more balanced healer, not just shield spammer.

  20. #40

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