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  1. #1

    Post What ever happened to MMORPG ?

    Is it just me or has wow slowly drifted away from strategy and starting to feel more and more like a hack and slash instead of a RPG? To me seems like vanilla and BC had far more strategy and less spammy hack/slash style gaming. This shifted in wotlk and is even more prevalent now.

  2. #2
    The Insane Rivin's Avatar
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    MMO = massively multiplayer online. RPG = role-playing game. Nowhere in there does it mention strategy. Hack-and-slash MMO games (which WoW is arguably not) are just as much MMORPGs as strategy-based MMO games.

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    Stood in the Fire Omgnumbers's Avatar
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    o-O I find this hard to fap too...

  4. #4
    Think your thinking of RTS....maybe? Only thing with stretegy...

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    Herald of the Titans
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    M = Massive. You can have large groups in both pve and pvp, 25 man raids and 40v40 battlegrounds. I find that is very massive.
    M = Multiplayer. Yep, WoW is a multiplayer game in you can group interact with other people.
    O = Online. An internet connection is required to play
    RP = Role-Playing. You can fill the role of a healer, tank, or damage dealer in WoW.
    G = Game. It's a video game a form of entertainment.

    Sounds like it's an MMORPG to me.

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    The Lightbringer Zethras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vertex705 View Post
    M = Massive. You can have large groups in both pve and pvp, 25 man raids and 40v40 battlegrounds. I find that is very massive.
    M = Multiplayer. Yep, WoW is a multiplayer game in you can group interact with other people.
    O = Online. An internet connection is required to play
    RP = Role-Playing. You can fill the role of a healer, tank, or damage dealer in WoW.
    G = Game. It's a video game a form of entertainment.

    Sounds like it's an MMORPG to me.
    Pretty much this.

    Warcraft 1, 2 and 3 were RTS games.
    Walking with a friend in the dark is better than walking alone in the light.
    So I chose the path of the Ebon Blade, and not a day passes where i've regretted it.
    I am eternal, I am unyielding, I am UNDYING.
    I am Zethras, and my blood will be the end of you.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by SeabeastRivin View Post
    MMO = massively multiplayer online. RPG = role-playing game. Nowhere in there does it mention strategy. Hack-and-slash MMO games (which WoW is arguably not) are just as much MMORPGs as strategy-based MMO games.
    We'll traditionally RPG games like final fantasy have been known for their strategy. One could also argue that the role playing is also declining in wow. As the classes continually get more homogenized you start bringing roles closer and closer together until eventually there is only one role for all classes.

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    High Overlord Einarr's Avatar
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    I miss having strategies in world of warcraft, nowadays it's just burst and burst and burst

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    The Lightbringer Zethras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandmoth12 View Post
    We'll traditionally RPG games like final fantasy have been known for their strategy. One could also argue that the role playing is also declining in wow. As the classes continually get more homogenized you start roles until eventually there is only one role for all classes.
    Final Fantasy doesn't have strategy in it...

    1 - Run forward
    2 - Encounter Monsters
    3 - Kill Monsters
    4 - Loot Gil
    5 - Watch sappy cinematics
    6 - Repeat

    As for classes becoming homogenized, they still retain their individuality through their playstyles.
    For example, A rogue who has only ever played a rogue would probably have no idea how a shaman works, because they're fundamentally different classes.
    Walking with a friend in the dark is better than walking alone in the light.
    So I chose the path of the Ebon Blade, and not a day passes where i've regretted it.
    I am eternal, I am unyielding, I am UNDYING.
    I am Zethras, and my blood will be the end of you.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by sandmoth12 View Post
    We'll traditionally RPG games like final fantasy have been known for their strategy. One could also argue that the role playing is also declining in wow. As the classes continually get more homogenized you start bringing roles closer and closer together until eventually there is only one role for all classes.
    ... and FFXI was an MMORPG which was almost exactly the same as WoW. Role playing will never decline in WoW as long as the roles DPS/Tank/Healer exist.

  11. #11
    The Insane Rivin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandmoth12 View Post
    We'll traditionally RPG games like final fantasy have been known for their strategy. One could also argue that the role playing is also declining in wow. As the classes continually get more homogenized you start bringing roles closer and closer together until eventually there is only one role for all classes.
    1. Final Fantasy is a different type of RPG. Even the individual games can vary a lot between each other.
    2. There's just as much strategy in WoW as there is in Final Fantasy, if not more.
    3. Bringing logical fallacies like slippery slope into your argument doesn't help it any.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by malevolant View Post
    ... and FFXI was an MMORPG which was almost exactly the same as WoW. Role playing will never decline in WoW as long as the roles DPS/Tank/Healer exist.
    Instead of staying separate though those roles are starting to blur together. Rogues getting healing spells, hunters getting stealth, mages getting bloodlust, ret paladins getting an interrupt. It seems every class is steadly getting everything. Every expansion classes are losing their uniqueness. There needs to be powerful class/spec defining abilities that stay for that class/spec only. Or else it's just an FPS.
    Last edited by sandmoth12; 2011-08-06 at 06:52 AM.

  13. #13
    The Lightbringer Zethras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandmoth12 View Post
    Instead of staying separate though those roles are starting to blur together. Rogues getting healing spells, hunters getting stealth, mages getting bloodlust, ret paladins getting an interrupt. It seems every class is steadly getting everything.
    Blizzard didn't want raids to bring a class specifically for their buff/ability, they want people to bring the player.
    Walking with a friend in the dark is better than walking alone in the light.
    So I chose the path of the Ebon Blade, and not a day passes where i've regretted it.
    I am eternal, I am unyielding, I am UNDYING.
    I am Zethras, and my blood will be the end of you.

  14. #14
    The Insane Rivin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandmoth12 View Post
    Instead of staying separate though those roles are starting to blur together. Rogues getting healing spells, hunters getting stealth, mages getting bloodlust, ret paladins getting an interrupt. It seems every class is steadly getting everything.
    You know, instead of just naming random spells, maybe you should explain how those lines are blurring? Unless you think rogues can heal raids, or mages can tank, or something. Giving classes much-needed utility doesn't change their roles or make roles less required. If anything, Cataclysm has forced roles further into place.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by SeabeastRivin View Post
    You know, instead of just naming random spells, maybe you should explain how those lines are blurring? Unless you think rogues can heal raids, or mages can tank, or something. Giving classes much-needed utility doesn't change their roles or make roles less required. If anything, Cataclysm has forced roles further into place.
    It certainly kills the feeling of uniqueness for the class. What is the point of rolling class X when class Y has most of class X major abilities also? People want to much these days. No one will accept their class may have a weakness. They simply want more and more abilities to cover up/fix their weakness instead of accept it.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Einarr View Post
    I miss having strategies in world of warcraft, nowadays it's just burst and burst and burst
    ...wat? O.o

    I feel that I am allowed to assume you have not raided or have not completed any dungeons. Tell me how many things don't require strategy.

  17. #17
    Personally I believe the classes are to close together. I believe creating larger gaps in between classes will create a semi balance. How you ask? We'll as classes are further separated in uniqueness it tends to have the effect of each class having counters. I don't like solid hard counters. But soft to moderate counters are fine and make the game fun and challenging for both sides. So if every class/spec counters at 1 one other class/spec then you have a decent semi balance.

    This is why I liked vanilla and BC more. Yeah I had counters to my class but I also countered other classes so it made it fair in the end.

  18. #18
    The Insane Rivin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandmoth12 View Post
    It certainly kills the feeling of uniqueness for the class. What is the point of rolling class X when class Y has most of class X major abilities also? People want to much these days. No one will accept their class may have a weakness. They simply want more and more abilities to cover up/fix their weakness instead of accept it.
    I've played all ten classes a decent amount. The classes are still unique. They still feel unique. They just suffer from fewer problems and provide more for their groups than before. Rogues can heal? Yeah, but they sacrifice a chunk of damage to do so, and it's still different from the other melee's self-heals. Mages have Bloodlust? Sure, so do hunters, but that's because shaman shouldn't get into groups just because of one ability. Paladins getting an interrupt? Interrupts are very important in Cataclysm, so spreading them around--especially to melee, who need such excuses to get into groups--was also important.

    And you still have yet to clarify how role lines are being blurred.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by SeabeastRivin View Post
    I've played all ten classes a decent amount. The classes are still unique. They still feel unique. They just suffer from fewer problems and provide more for their groups than before. Rogues can heal? Yeah, but they sacrifice a chunk of damage to do so, and it's still different from the other melee's self-heals. Mages have Bloodlust? Sure, so do hunters, but that's because shaman shouldn't get into groups just because of one ability. Paladins getting an interrupt? Interrupts are very important in Cataclysm, so spreading them around--especially to melee, who need such excuses to get into groups--was also important.

    And you still have yet to clarify how role lines are being blurred.
    Maybe not roles but class/spec uniqueness is being blurred.

  20. #20
    Vanilla and BC had strategy? Where?

    Plus, RPG means Role Playing Game, not Real Time Strategy. Guild Wars 2 could potentially be the first MMO to surpass WoW exactly because of its hack 'n slash style of gameplay. Nobody really likes %, RNG and procs...

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