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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Herecius View Post
    Now, that's quite a different matter altogether. It's very true that many laws are passed by big companies lobbying, but milk pasteurization is not one of them. Having to pasteurize the milk actually makes things more expensive for the companies, not cheaper. Why would they lobby for a law that hits their bottom line? It was the FDA that lobbied to pass the law, following studies done on pasteurization.

    Now, on the other hand, we could look at those studies, see if the results were swayed by some corporation, but again, the question is why?

    The problem of GMO seeds being patented is also very unrelated, and also a pretty serious problem. It has nothing to do with the healthyness, as you say, and everything to do with the patent. The proper thing to do in my opinion would be to pass a law making it legal for farmers who harvest their own GMO seeds to plant those seeds and sell the resulting crop. On the other hand, there is also an FDA mandated reason why GMO seeds have to be sold from a supplier to have the crop sold, that being it's really the only way to be sure that the resulting crop isn't modified in some way that could potentially be harmful to those who consume it.

    There's a lot of layers to this issue, but none of it has to do with a massive government conspiracy against Rawsome foods.
    There's a lot of debate about that, raw milk is good for you, but it can't be sold the same way pasterized can, shelf life is short etc, I don't know everything about the raw milk issue, but from what I gathered raw milk is very good, but it has to be fresh and purchased locally, but pasterization kills alot of good bacteria too, so to me it should be a personal choice not a governmental choice. I am quessing the choices made on pasterizing milk had more in mind the business side, mass producing and the safest, but if precautions are taken, raw milk can be better, just has to be baught at more of a local level, not supermarkets.

    I don't think its a conspiracy like that, but all it takes is a few people to pass a law and people will simply do their job, without question.

    I just think people should get involved more in their choices, and not assume every law and regulation passed is done for the good of the people. The GMO stuff scares me, cause GMO products don't have to be labeled as GMO, I personally don't trust GMO products, I'm sure some of it is fine, but to me millions of years of humans, animals eating natural, over a company trying to turn a profit


    The way I see it, a company has to answer to stockholders, by making more profit each year, if you follow this pattern, eventually the product will suffer, if the consumer base doesn't grow, then a company has to cut into the quality, make things cheaper, faster, might involve using drugs on cattle etc, to me its more the nature of business that's the real issue.
    Last edited by Zadiell; 2011-08-06 at 07:08 PM.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePalidius View Post
    this is the post i most agree with! defend the liberty and freedom of choice for all or it perishes! it is not fair to expect freedom for you but not for others, even if their lifestyle choices are odd in your opinion, unsafe in your opinion, or whatever.

    i love freedom above any other choice.
    There is a difference between freedom and anarchy.

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  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePalidius View Post
    this is the post i most agree with! defend the liberty and freedom of choice for all or it perishes! it is not fair to expect freedom for you but not for others, even if their lifestyle choices are odd in your opinion, unsafe in your opinion, or whatever.

    i love freedom above any other choice.
    Well, I want the freedom to put poison in food and sell it to anyone I want and call it sugar. It's my freedom to do so, so you can't tell me no.

    Sometimes you have to give up a little bit of PUBLIC freedom (ie, selling raw food WITHOUT A PERMIT or any indications that it's safe) to ensure that individuals don't get hurt.




    EDIT: Again, you CAN purchase and eat raw food. You need a permit to SELL said food, however. These people have no evidence of having a permit or meeting ANY standards of safe food.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Almighty1 View Post
    I dont think you know what you are talking about. There is a reason why these regulations exist. Massive production of food creates a lot of room for contamination which has led to deaths and these regulations exist to prevent that. Organic farming is perfectly legal if it follows proper procedures to maintain integrity of their products. These regulations exist for our protection weather you like it or not, if you dont understand that then you are just plain ignorant.
    A mere warning label is capable of protecting someone from their own ignorance, A federal ban of the product itself is a limitation on my right to choose what I consume.

    Alcohol and Tobacco are perfect examples A grotesque picture of a cancerous lung on the side of my cigarette pack will inform me of the risk but it is still my choice to smoke them.

    But of course people will always get what they desire regardless of the laws meant to stop them from doing so because their is plenty of people out their who have lost faith in their governments ability to lead much less make a single intelligent decision or they simply don't care about the repercussions.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Zadiell View Post
    There's a lot of debate about that, raw milk is good for you, but it can't be sold the same way pasterized can, shelf life is short etc, I don't know everything about the raw milk issue, but from what I gathered raw milk is very good, but it has to be fresh and purchased locally, but pasterization kills alot of good bacteria too, so to me it should be a personal choice not a governmental choice. I am quessing the choices made on pasterizing milk had more in mind the business side, mass producing and the safest, but if precautions are taken, raw milk can be better, just has to be baught at more of a local level, not supermarkets.

    I don't think its a conspiracy like that, but all it takes is a few people to pass a law and people will simply do their job, without question.

    I just think people should get involved more in their choices, and not assume every law and regulation passed is done for the good of the people. The GMO stuff scares me, cause GMO products don't have to be labeled as GMO, I personally don't trust GMO products, I'm sure some of it is fine, but to me millions of years of humans, animals eating natural, over a company trying to turn a profit
    Raw milk definitely can be good for people. There's no disputing that. Homogenized and pasteurized milk can be good as well, of course. For raw milk to be effectively sold, literally every batch from every cow would have to be stringently tested before being placed on shelves, though. The cost of doing such a thing would be great, and I would admire any company capable of turning a profit from that for sure.

    Opinions are always fine - I don't necessarily agree with you about GMO products, for example, but I certainly respect your opinion on them - but being misinformed and willfully ignorant never sit well with me. I'm not saying you're misinformed or anything, of course! I enjoy having actual discourse about this kind of thing, I'm just stating that I don't like when a lot of smart facts are blatantly ignored.

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  6. #126
    Brewmaster Rhaide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePalidius View Post
    just read this article, kind of disturbing. thoughts?

    Rawsome Foods owner, Victoria Bloch was released from jail in LA County last night, but only under the condition that she completely give up her First Amendment rights and refrain from talking to anyone about the case. NaturalNews has confirmed this gag order was placed on Victoria and is also going to be placed on James Stewart and Sharon Palmer as a condition of their release (they are reportedly making bail today and may be home by this evening).

    This gag order is, of course, an effort by the California court system to try to quell the rising tidal wave of public outrage against the armed government raids against a raw dairy farm and private buyer’s club — a raid that many people who witnessed it described, in their own words, as “government terrorism” against the People.

    First, the government attempts to take away their right to engage in commerce and enter private contracts. Then, the government vandalizes this buying club, steals their cash, destroys their entire product inventory and steals the computers from the store. The owners (and conspiring farmers) are arrested at gunpoint and taken to jail without even being read their rights. And finally, to top it off, they are slapped with a gag order which prohibits them having their First Amendment rights so that they might tell their side of the story.

    This is a total assault on freedom by the government.

    NaturalNews has learned that under this gag order, these raw milk advocates are prevented from:

    • Speaking to any member of the press.
    • Tweeting or blogging about the raid.
    • Posting anything on Facebook or websites.
    • Sending emails about the case.
    • Communicating in any way, verbally or non-verbally about the government raids conducted against them.

    Join the online revolt against government-sponsored terrorism of American farmers

    Meanwhile, public outrage is rapidly spreading. A viral Tweet campaign has been launched that has people tweeting #rawesome and#farmageddon across the web (http://www.naturalnews.com/033243_ra...ial_media.html), and a new video has just been posted by Sarah Brown that interviewed several people who witnessed the raid. Watch this video to see government terrorists stealing computers and business files from Rawesome Foods:
    http://naturalnews.tv/v.asp?v=C3E893...B97B579F08F7F5

    or see it on YouTube at:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzlrSCqTBBE
    Is it really that surprising in California? The state where liberals have allowed government to become so large and powerful that it sometimes persecutes people? That is the reason why small government is better. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.
    "When you do things right, people won't be sure you have done anything at all."

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  7. #127
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    I came just to post on the biochemistry being thrown around in this forum. The idea of cooking removing all nutrients from food is complete and utter bunk. I'm currently in Med school and did an honours biochem degree. I actually studied this stuff in detail. That's flat out WRONG. Stop reposting garbage like that. To boot, pasteurization has next to ZERO effect on nutritional value, while reducing the threat of infection by orders of magnitude. I'll admit it affects TASTE, but that's simply not enough.


    As a Canadian citizen I can't comment on American laws or policies, but when the biochemistry being thrown around is such quackery that I come out of lurker status to comment, there's a problem.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Vanyali View Post
    Well, I want the freedom to put poison in food and sell it to anyone I want and call it sugar. It's my freedom to do so, so you can't tell me no.

    Sometimes you have to give up a little bit of PUBLIC freedom (ie, selling raw food WITHOUT A PERMIT or any indications that it's safe) to ensure that individuals don't get hurt.




    EDIT: Again, you CAN purchase and eat raw food. You need a permit to SELL said food, however. These people have no evidence of having a permit or meeting ANY standards of safe food.
    Someone already puts poison in your food, Do you think all those ingredients that you can't pronounce are good for your body ?
    Do you think Corn syrup as a suitable replacement for sugar.
    Do you think your body likes Red dye #2.
    Do you think water bottled inside plastic that has been sitting inside a hot warehouse for month's is actually good for your health ?

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by skrump View Post
    A mere warning label is capable of protecting someone from their own ignorance, A federal ban of the product itself is a limitation on my right to choose what I consume.

    Alcohol and Tobacco are perfect examples A grotesque picture of a cancerous lung on the side of my cigarette pack will inform me of the risk but it is still my choice to smoke them.

    But of course people will always get what they desire regardless of the laws meant to stop them from doing so because their is plenty of people out their who have lost faith in their governments ability to lead much less make a single intelligent decision or they simply don't care about the repercussions.
    People still try to sue despite warning labels.

    You can still buy whatever type of food you want. You can eat whatever kind you want. You just can't SELL It unregulated.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by skrump View Post
    Someone already puts poison in your food, Do you think all those ingredients that you can't pronounce are good for your body ?
    Do you think Corn syrup as a suitable replacement for sugar.
    Do you think your body likes Red dye #2.
    Do you think water bottled inside plastic that has been sitting inside a hot warehouse for month's is actually good for your health ?
    I think the assumption that all of these things are bad for my health is just as erroneous. They are neutral for my health. My health does not give a damn because they are harmless. They neither help nor hurt. Calling them poison is a scare tactic and an alarmist strategy that is just as silly as yelling and screaming that somebody is a terrorist.

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  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Zadiell View Post
    I just think people should get involved more in their choices, and not assume every law and regulation passed is done for the good of the people. The GMO stuff scares me, cause GMO products don't have to be labeled as GMO, I personally don't trust GMO products, I'm sure some of it is fine, but to me millions of years of humans, animals eating natural, over a company trying to turn a profit


    The way I see it, a company has to answer to stockholders, by making more profit each year, if you follow this pattern, eventually the product will suffer, if the consumer base doesn't grow, then a company has to cut into the quality, make things cheaper, faster, might involve using drugs on cattle etc, to me its more the nature of business that's the real issue.
    I honestly don't think there's a problem with "GMOs" After all, do you have any idea what corn used to look like before the thousand-year-long domestication process? Genetically modified organism sounds scary, but it's really not any different from selective breeding; you know, the thing that made your terrier look different from your great dane. GMOs might also be the solution (along with better ditribution) to world hunger. It allows the produce to grow in an area and flourish where it used to be inhospitable. The corn still needs sunlight and water whether it's organic or genetically altered. You're not feeding one with laser beams instead of a water can.

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by skrump View Post
    A mere warning label is capable of protecting someone from their own ignorance, A federal ban of the product itself is a limitation on my right to choose what I consume.

    Alcohol and Tobacco are perfect examples A grotesque picture of a cancerous lung on the side of my cigarette pack will inform me of the risk but it is still my choice to smoke them.

    But of course people will always get what they desire regardless of the laws meant to stop them from doing so because their is plenty of people out their who have lost faith in their governments ability to lead much less make a single intelligent decision or they simply don't care about the repercussions.
    pretty much this, if you really analyze the law, you only need a few basic laws. do not steal, kill, or physically injure anybody. you cannot legislate morality. but we can most likely agree that those three things are bad to do to somebody. prison is obviously not a deterrence for smoking crack, a crack head needs his crack. but the illegality of crack dosent make me not smoke crack. me not wanting to become a crackhead prevents me from smoking crack. its personal choice, if said crackhead, steals, kills, or physically injures anybody they should be punished but thats it. and if you think about all these industrial regulations on food, or medicine, ect. the business owners, and doctors who dont provide quality product, or care will be eliminated by healthy competition and good old fashioned honest investigative reporting. and if they are guilty of any of the three due to their lack in quality they should be punished. the regulations limit choice, but still do not guarantee the security they claim to provide.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Vanyali View Post
    Exactly my point

    We chose to say "yeah, we trust you FDA. decide what's good for us".

    The general populace, as I said before, has no idea of what's what when it comes to food and food preparation, myself included.
    Slightly off the topic, but I work with regulatory intelligence, and by chance came across this a while ago.
    Sometimes ignorance IS bliss ... http://www.fda.gov/food/guidancecomp...6174.htm#intro

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by skrump View Post
    Someone already puts poison in your food, Do you think all those ingredients that you can't pronounce are good for your body ?
    Do you think Corn syrup as a suitable replacement for sugar.
    Do you think your body likes Red dye #2.
    Do you think water bottled inside plastic that has been sitting inside a hot warehouse for month's is actually good for your health ?

    I'm talking rat poison, buddy. I'm gonna substitute that for sugar because it's my freedom to do so, and to not tell you, and the government can't limit me because that's going against my freedom to sell whatever i want.

    See how ridiculous that is? As well as unfair to ANYONE that buys my product not knowing that it's a death trap.


    Corn syrup won't kill you like e coli will.
    Red dye won't kill you like food poisoning can.

    As for bottled water, I CHOSE not to drink that because I hate the way plastic makes water taste. But there's no active poison ingredient in it, which puts it in an entirely different category.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by skrump View Post
    Someone already puts poison in your food, Do you think all those ingredients that you can't pronounce are good for your body ?
    Do you think Corn syrup as a suitable replacement for sugar.
    Do you think your body likes Red dye #2.
    Do you think water bottled inside plastic that has been sitting inside a hot warehouse for month's is actually good for your health ?
    Before I believe you and that guy with the wooly hat, I'd rather trust the hundreds of scientists who have spent years being educated in their respective fields and then spent even more years analysing all those products you mentioned on their effects on the human body.

    Might just be me, though. Perhaps you would be interested in this Arsenic-sandwich? Scientists say it's dangerous, but me and my buddy ate them and we're totally fine. They're actually really healthy, I managed to lift about 20% more weight last time I hit the gym than I ever managed before! Awesome, right?
    It's astonishing how confused people get when a sentence does not end as they potato.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Eightace View Post
    Wow, that is harsh if true. try that in Europe and you will have mass riots on your hands, is this down to that Patriot act you guys have?

    Try to explain it in laymans terms please, i am not too familiar with your justice system.
    I wish we'd riot more. Make a point that it is OUR government and OUR nation, not the elite and wealthy.

    I suspect what happened is that they provider here was breaking the law, got a letter saying cease and desist, made a threat in retaliation, and got raided.

    I am an economist who is also an investor (trade forex, stocks, invested deeply in longterm crap, bacon strips, blah blah, i do my work and know my shit). I will tell you that there is no such thing as action without dollars. What I mean is, ask who is making dollars on this?

    So the police raid these people. Who has the influence to make that happen, and who stands to gain from it? I heard dairy federation, so lets play on that. Scenario: dairy federation sees increasing popularity of competition. Dairy federation sends lawyers to do douche bag lawyer stuff. Douche bag lawyers win, police raid with hostility. Dairy federation successfully protects profits.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Bergtau View Post
    Some vitamins can be rendered unusable by the cooking process, but overall, it is far healthier to eat the majority of foods cooked. The only foods you might want to eat raw are things like fruits because of how easily destroyed vitamin C is.

    And yes, eating shit raw your whole life can help you build a resistance to the bacteria contained in those foods, but you're still more likely to die doing that than eating cooked food. Say one guy eats raw food and the other eats cooked food. A 20% chance to die 5 or 10 times is a worse rate of survival than a 50% chance to die one time.
    its kinda of ironic when you think about it, the more we try to not eat harmful things. we loose a tolerance to it, and become weaker to things, and more reliant on medicine. I think you can eat almost everything raw, except maybe meat, but alot of why meat is bad to me is force feeding them things they don't naturally eat so they grow bigger, like making cows eat corn which they never naturally would of done, and has to change their biology to a degree, and might weaken their tolerance to disease aswell.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Voij View Post
    Might just be me, though. Perhaps you would be interested in this Arsenic-sandwich? Scientists say it's dangerous, but me and my buddy ate them and we're totally fine. They're actually really healthy, I managed to lift about 20% more weight last time I hit the gym than I ever managed before! Awesome, right?
    Sounds legit, I'll take 10.

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  19. #139
    Epic! Duravian's Avatar
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    bunch of hippies claiming the corporations and the government are corrupt and evil. next thread.
    "The Thread Ender" - No seriously, whenever I enter a thread, people stop talking. Wtf guys, is it something I said?
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  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by skrump View Post
    A mere warning label is capable of protecting someone from their own ignorance, A federal ban of the product itself is a limitation on my right to choose what I consume.
    It's not about your right to consume, it's about what you are not allowed to sell to other people without a permit.

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