Should The US/AU/UK armies pull out of Afgan already?

[Romire]

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8282837



This isnt a misleading title or anything, but reather a serious question, Do you think they should just pull out of Afgan already? They caught and killed Osama already, whats the point of being there still?

The respective goverments should just pull em out and send em home, cause enough life has been lost if that part of the woodworks, its insane!

[namelessone]

Apparently afghans don't think so, since they have recently started a huge vote of some kind to plead to US troops to extend their mission. Apparently Afghan government realizes that once allies are gone - their days will be numbered.

[Deleted]

Bin laden was never the reason for being there, but yes, they should pull out. This is coming from a British army officer.

[ptwonline]

Bin laden was never the reason for being there, but yes, they should pull out. This is coming from a British army officer.

Um, Bin Laden was the reason the coalition forces went there. The Taliban sheltered Bin Laden and gave Al Qaeda a base of operations to train and plan. After 9/11 they initially refused to give him up, and so western govt's recognized that the Taliban would always be a potential problem so they set out with the goal of

1. Catching Bin Laden
2. Destroying Al Qaeda's base of operations
3. Removing the Taliban from power not only so that they couldn't support terrorism in the future, but because they were so harsh and cruel on their own people. America in particular led by neo-conservative philosophy about active nation building was eager for this.

The coalition has not been very successful overall, and they definitely want out. However, just pulling out now would pretty much guarantee that all of the effort for the last decade in trying to wipe out the Taliban and give Afghanistan a democratic, unified gov't would have been a total waste. So forces are staying there to try to help the fledging gov't, army, and police create a stable state that Afghans can police and enforce on their own.

IMO, it's not going to work. The country simply is not ready for it. It is still too tribal, too regional. There is too much poverty to make men afraid to lose their livelihoods, and since they have so little to lose they have little to fight for until someone gives them a reason (like the Taliban).

[Deleted]

Um, Bin Laden was the reason the coalition forces went there. The Taliban sheltered Bin Laden and gave Al Qaeda a base of operations to train and plan. After 9/11 they initially refused to give him up, and so western govt's recognized that the Taliban would always be a potential problem so they set out with the goal of

1. Catching Bin Laden
2. Destroying Al Qaeda's base of operations
3. Removing the Taliban from power not only so that they couldn't support terrorism in the future, but because they were so harsh and cruel on their own people. America in particular led by neo-conservative philosophy about active nation building was eager for this.

The coalition has not been very successful overall, and they definitely want out. However, just pulling out now would pretty much guarantee that all of the effort for the last decade in trying to wipe out the Taliban and give Afghanistan a democratic, unified gov't would have been a total waste. So forces are staying there to try to help the fledging gov't, army, and police create a stable state that Afghans can police and enforce on their own.

IMO, it's not going to work. The country simply is not ready for it. It is still too tribal, too regional. There is too much poverty to make men afraid to lose their livelihoods, and since they have so little to lose they have little to fight for until someone gives them a reason (like the Taliban).

Nobody really believes that, especially when many people thought he was in Pakistan at the time.

[Rend Blackhand]

yes they should pull out, Afghanistan ain't gonna get better regardless so lets save the coalition nations some money on the war.

[Deleted]

yes they should pull out, Afghanistan ain't gonna get better regardless so lets save the coalition nations some money on the war.

As someone wisely stated before, Afghanistan is too tribal, it would take generations before they were ready to become a real democracy.

[Poodles]

As someone wisely stated before, Afghanistan is too tribal, it would take generations before they were ready to become a real democracy.

...and you only piss them off by trying to force your way of life on them. It's always been a lose/lose situation.

[Vaelkyri]

Um, Bin Laden was the reason the coalition forces went there. The Taliban sheltered Bin Laden and gave Al Qaeda a base of operations to train and plan. After 9/11 they initially refused to give him up, and so western govt's recognized that the Taliban would always be a potential problem so they set out with the goal of

1. Catching Bin Laden
2. Destroying Al Qaeda's base of operations
3. Removing the Taliban from power not only so that they couldn't support terrorism in the future, but because they were so harsh and cruel on their own people. America in particular led by neo-conservative philosophy about active nation building was eager for this.

The coalition has not been very successful overall, and they definitely want out. However, just pulling out now would pretty much guarantee that all of the effort for the last decade in trying to wipe out the Taliban and give Afghanistan a democratic, unified gov't would have been a total waste. So forces are staying there to try to help the fledging gov't, army, and police create a stable state that Afghans can police and enforce on their own.

IMO, it's not going to work. The country simply is not ready for it. It is still too tribal, too regional. There is too much poverty to make men afraid to lose their livelihoods, and since they have so little to lose they have little to fight for until someone gives them a reason (like the Taliban).

At the risk of not contributing much.. lol.. just lol.

Had that been the TRUE goal, all the forces would have been under UN juridiction, instead of DIRECTLY OPPOSED to orders from the UN.

1. Catching Bin Laden, - sending an army to catch one man? All that does is make the job harder.
2. Destroying Al Queda's BOO, - sending an army to crush a cell structured guerilla network, that prior to the invasion was at best a lose collection of extremists? All that did was forge those groups together and send them underground all over the world.
3. See UN, and if the US was so keen to save people from cruelty and opression, why did they refuse over and over again to deploy into Darfur where much much much worse was taking place?

Was little more than an election stunt playing upon peoples call for vengance, serving as a gateway to US operations in the region.

[Felya]

As someone wisely stated before, Afghanistan is too tribal, it would take generations before they were ready to become a real democracy.

Yep, both Russia and US tried before...Should not have been there 30 years go and should not be there now. But, I personally don't understand the concept of protecting Americans by putting the brave ones in the line of fire. Can we also protect Americans who happen to be soldiers and bring them out of danger?

[Deleted]

Yep, both Russia and US tried before...Should not have been there 30 years go and should not be there now. But, I personally don't understand the concept of protecting Americans by putting the brave ones in the line of fire. Can we also protect Americans who happen to be soldiers and bring them out of danger?

Don't forget your British allies, i did 2 tours out there. Wherever the US goes, the UK has to go along to make sure you do not get up to too much mischief!

[Felya]

IMO, it's not going to work. The country simply is not ready for it. It is still too tribal, too regional. There is too much poverty to make men afraid to lose their livelihoods, and since they have so little to lose they have little to fight for until someone gives them a reason (like the Taliban).

They have plenty of reasons. Poverty simply removes the access to resources to act on the reasons. By putting our soldiers there, we are creating plenty of access to the resource of American lives.

---------- Post added 2011-08-08 at 02:34 PM ----------

Don't forget your British allies, i did 2 tours out there. Wherever the US goes, the UK has to go along to make sure you do not get up to too much mischief!

Sorry, I don't mean to devalue or ignore the troops od coalition of the willing. I just use the biggest name involved to represent everyone. It would be easier to say UN, but you covered why I can't. So would coalition of the willing, but due to the quagmires, it's hard to type it without it seeming like a joke. I apologize for my laziness, but when I say American troops, I mean all troops involved without typing each country that is.

[Deleted]

in my opinion, no they should not pull out, don't get me wrong I don't want our boys over there at all. However if they were to pull out now, even a phased withdrawal over a period of time then it will descend back into the state it was before we went there, if not worse. The only real option now is to stay there until there is a stable self determining government which the people have all the rights that they deserve.

Withdrawal now would in no doubt be the worst possible thing, not only for the afghan people, but for the world as a whole, it would I have no doubt return to a state where terrorist organizations would have free reign to recruit, train, and mount attacks on targets around the world. I honestly don't see us being able to safely withdraw from the region for a long time.

[Sooba]

in my opinion, no they should not pull out, don't get me wrong I don't want our boys over there at all. However if they were to pull out now, even a phased withdrawal over a period of time then it will descend back into the state it was before we went there, if not worse. The only real option now is to stay there until there is a stable self determining government which the people have all the rights that they deserve.

Withdrawal now would in no doubt be the worst possible thing, not only for the afghan people, but for the world as a whole, it would I have no doubt return to a state where terrorist organizations would have free reign to recruit, train, and mount attacks on targets around the world. I honestly don't see us being able to safely withdraw from the region for a long time.

As was stated before (and you ignored) a self-sustaining government simply isn't going to happen. Get them out. And the Canadians, Dutch, French and Japanese too. Thank God we didn't go into the unjustified quagmire of Iraq.

[Elementium]

Don't forget your British allies, i did 2 tours out there. Wherever the US goes, the UK has to go along to make sure you do not get up to too much mischief!

*childs voice* AWWWWWWWWWW, MAN!

But yeah, I tend to think SOME goals were to get bin laden and try to do some of the things listed above.. While understanding that oil is a factor, not just through conspiracy theories but rather knowing that Bush has oil connections and Cheney does aswell.

I don't know what conflict this is in context too but I remember a interview on the daily show with an airforce general who had a meeting with some washington guys about how to get into a country and he said one guy actually suggested shooting down one of our own planes to create a conflict. It's never good to underestimate how evil people can be.

OT, Yeah we should leave. These guys tried to wait till the last minute to get these things done so they look good and now the economy is still crashing, we need to start saving and the military is a good place to start.

[Deleted]

Sorry, I don't mean to devalue or ignore the troops od coalition of the willing. I just use the biggest name involved to represent everyone. It would be easier to say UN, but you covered why I can't. So would coalition of the willing, but due to the quagmires, it's hard to type it without it seeming like a joke. I apologize for my laziness, but when I say American troops, I mean all troops involved without typing each country that is.

Would be simpler just to say NATO or ISAF.

[Deleted]

I think people should mind their own business more. It is one big hypocritical world we live in.

[Deleted]

Would be simpler just to say NATO or ISAF.

It's not a NATO job though, they just got involved after pressure from the US/UK.

[Deleted]

It's not a NATO job though, they just got involved after pressure from the US/UK.

Article V of NATO was invoked so, whether legitimately or not, it is a NATO job.

[Deleted]

As was stated before (and you ignored) a self-sustaining government simply isn't going to happen. Get them out. And the Canadians, Dutch, French and Japanese too. Thank God we didn't go into the unjustified quagmire of Iraq.

Actually I did read it, and I stated my opinion. I have no doubts that at this present moment in time Afghanistan is in no way going to be able to sustain its own government and is unlikely to for generations to come, however at this moment in time, whilst there is a lot of trouble in the country it is harder for terroirist orginisastions to take over, and train there fanatics to attack targets the world over. Suddenly with drawing from the country would be like putting a giant notice board up saying "welcome to Afghanistan to the north we train Al-Qaeda, in the south we have training camps for Taliban, in the east we train our suicide bombers, and in the west is where we have target practice"

do not be under any illusion the withdrawal of all troops from Afghanistan is something I would dearly love to see, however I am a realist and you can pretty much be assured that within a couple of months of there being no allied forces being over there what little control the afghan people current have would be taken away from them via corruption, fear, and intimidation of groups like the Taliban who would then freely allow and prospect from terrorist training. Anyone who belives any differently really needs to open there eyes a little to see that whilst we are over there the country is getting better and better on a daily basis.

Sure there is going to be resistance, but you can pretty much be assured that the people that resisting change are the ones who would like to see the country go back to being a 3rd world hell hole where they can live like kings whilst the general population around them struggle to make ends meet on a day to day basis.