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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrianth View Post
    I don't think expecting the "leaders" in web dev tutorials to post accurate information is being picky. Especially when a lot of the errors are major.
    Can I have what you're smoking? "Leaders" in web dev tutorials? How long have you been on the internet? Everyone's got a PhD in whatever they damn well want here apparently. Any such claim has and will be ridiculous.

    And no, not a lot of them are major. Or at least it's hard to see how there are a lot of them when w3fools.com suck at prioritizing.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkenvalley View Post
    Can I have what you're smoking? "Leaders" in web dev tutorials? How long have you been on the internet? Everyone's got a PhD in whatever they damn well want here apparently. Any such claim has and will be ridiculous.

    And no, not a lot of them are major. Or at least it's hard to see how there are a lot of them when w3fools.com suck at prioritizing.
    Do you support teaching deprecated tags? Misleading or false information? Tables for layout purposes? w3schools teaches all of those.

    Also, the use of quotation marks in terms of irony.
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  3. #23
    I picked up on the irony. Though usually you'd pull that sort of silly shit if they were actually claiming to be grand. So which is it?
    Though more importantly, my point was that taking any such claims as any form of fact is extremely silly.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkenvalley View Post
    I picked up on the irony. Though usually you'd pull that sort of silly shit if they were actually claiming to be grand. So which is it?
    Though more importantly, my point was that taking any such claims as any form of fact is extremely silly.
    From their about page:
    W3Schools is the largest and most popular web developers resource in the world.
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  5. #25
    i've been a professional developer for 15 years and basically you have to come to terms with what scale you're going to "design."

    First of all, one of the main issues with web design is that you can go from one person doing everything all the way up to corporate levels where you have a team of dozens of people each doing a specific task.

    Are you more interested in graphics? Become an illustrator, typographer, or photographer.
    Are you more interested in planning? Become a user experience specialist, information architect, or communications planner.
    Are you more interested in coding? Become a front-end, back-end, or system admin.

    Now you want to become "all of those people at once" that will put you at a naturally smaller scale of development. Fine. In that case I would recommend learning how to design for CMSes. Drupal, Joomla, Wordpress(to a smaller degree) and how to integrate all that fun new web technology into it.


    If you're really just a graphic designer looking to make art on the web, partner with someone who's a coder. Don't pretend that there's an easy way to make good designs come alive on websites without knowing scripting/coding. Look at the websites you enjoy. Look at how blizzard hires. Sure, it's great when a designer knows what's realistic for a developer to implement, but most of the times the designer has no idea what is possible given current technology. They know how to make things pretty, not functional.

    This is because to sell crappy BA and Associates degrees they've expanded the term "design" to the point that it's meaningless. At some point you have to come to terms with yourself and figure out if you're an artist or a coder. Designer is NOT merely both. Most of the top end design colleges have you planning and creating requirement documents. Not drawing pictures or choosing fonts. In so many mediocre schools, design is just "science of art" which is bullshit and it ends up with these programs flooding the market and giving rise to crowdsourcing and elance "logo for $50" or "website for $50."

    ---------- Post added 2011-08-08 at 05:18 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrianth View Post
    No professional web developer/designer uses dreamweaver. If you insist on using dreamweaver stay away from the WYSIWYG editor and stick to the code editor.
    That's bullshit.

    There are plenty of midlevel inhouse design teams using dreamweaver / contribute as it is cheaper to buy a dozen or so copies of dw/cont and implement it than it is to overhaul a website to implement a modern CMS.

    Really, if you can't pick up any new software someone gives you immediately, don't bother. Dreamweaver is extremely easy and at worst is a glorified text editor.

    I learned in simpletext, when DW was finally robust it was one of the only WYSIWYG viewers. It was also the first to synchronize with server-side languages allowing you to view various implementations locally (php, coldfusion, etc).

    Now, as a developer, you're not developing "web pages" anymore anyway, so even notepad++ or whatever is useless, since there are development environments out there for every application you can think of. Anyone "manually coding" is working at such a small scale that it doesn't really matter what you do it in. But any larger firm will have an environment you are required to work within...

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrianth View Post
    --SNIP--
    Now you're being obnoxious.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by frott View Post
    Are you more interested in graphics? Become an illustrator, typographer, or photographer.
    Are you more interested in planning? Become a user experience specialist, information architect, or communications planner.
    Are you more interested in coding? Become a front-end, back-end, or system admin.


    Now you want to become "all of those people at once" that will put you at a naturally smaller scale of development. Fine. In that case I would recommend learning how to design for CMSes. Drupal, Joomla, Wordpress(to a smaller degree) and how to integrate all that fun new web technology into it.
    You just described all of my 3 categories of intresst. Those 3 are kinda precisely the things I would like to do. But what you're saying is that It would be wiser to concentrate on 1 of those "categories" instead of all 3 at once?

    Quote Originally Posted by frott View Post
    If you're really just a graphic designer looking to make art on the web, partner with someone who's a coder. Don't pretend that there's an easy way to make good designs come alive on websites without knowing scripting/coding. Look at the websites you enjoy. Look at how blizzard hires. Sure, it's great when a designer knows what's realistic for a developer to implement, but most of the times the designer has no idea what is possible given current technology.
    They know how to make things pretty, not functional.
    Well I would like to grasp both pretty and functional, (that's me thinking further down the road)
    I actually have a genius coder friend which I might start working with.

    Quote Originally Posted by frott View Post
    This is because to sell crappy BA and Associates degrees they've expanded the term "design" to the point that it's meaningless. At some point you have to come to terms with yourself and figure out if you're an artist or a coder. Designer is NOT merely both.
    I would like to think there's a possibility for both but you're saying that there is no such thing?


  8. #28
    frott, you seem to be under the illusion you can only be one thing at a time?

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by tunnland View Post
    I would like to think there's a possibility for both but you're saying that there is no such thing?
    Don't worry, there is. lol Most freelancers design and code their own work.

    If you frequent reddit, they have a pretty great webdesign subreddit you may want to check out. Even if you don't frequent reddit I suggest you take a peak and ask some questions there. You're bound to find much more answers on a site dedicated to web design then you would a site dedicated to WoW.
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