If we prioritize haste and mastery over crit, what's the minimum crit rating?

[Khadjid]

It's not the extra tick you go for, it's the faster cast times and faster ticking dots you go for when getting haste. An extra tick doesn't matter.

At 30% buffed haste your UA will tick every 2.308 seconds over 16.1 seconds.
At 29.95% buffed haste your UA will tick every 2.309 seconds over 13.8 seconds.

The dots ticks roughly just as fast, but every 96.6 seconds you will save one global cooldown. Over a 8 minute fight you will have saved 5 global cooldowns, or roughly 3 shadow bolts.

Reaching a threshold where you gain an extra tick is not important, as it only gives you a few shadow bolts extra over a fight. However haste will always reduce the time between each tick and make your casts faster, which is why you want haste.

[slosh]

i fail to see the reasoning that haste is still better for afflic after an extra ua tick >.> the next haste threshold is 3476 which is impossible atm

Faster shadowbolt casts for one. Another is that your DoTs tick faster. It requires you to cast more DoTs as a result, but since they're your highest DPCT, it's a DPS increase.

So assume no haste. If I go from 15 second UA down to 14.5, over the course of a 6 minute fight you'd have 4 additional ticks of UA. I didn't get any additional ticks PER cast, but I still got additional ticks in over the course of the fight.

[Sanoku]

i fail to see the reasoning that haste is still better for afflic after an extra ua tick >.> the next haste threshold is 3476 which is impossible atm

Cuz you know.... dots ticking faster doesn't matter or anything....

[Delia]

It's not the extra tick you go for, it's the faster cast times and faster ticking dots you go for when getting haste. An extra tick doesn't matter.

At 30% buffed haste your UA will tick every 2.308 seconds over 16.1 seconds.
At 29.95% buffed haste your UA will tick every 2.309 seconds over 13.8 seconds.

The dots ticks roughly just as fast, but every 96.6 seconds you will save one global cooldown. Over a 8 minute fight you will have saved 5 global cooldowns, or roughly 3 shadow bolts.

Reaching a threshold where you gain an extra tick is not important, as it only gives you a few shadow bolts extra over a fight. However haste will always reduce the time between each tick and make your casts faster, which is why you want haste.

Thank you, its nice to see someone who understands the lack of significant importance for "haste plateaus" for affliction. Seems so many people on these forums ignorantly spew "BUT TEH PLATEAU!!" whenever talking about high haste value for affliction... it only really matters for destro people, get it into your skulls >.>

[chaley]

I would like to point out that there surely is a "minimum" amount of crit rating that you would want, because the lower you get with it the more valuable it becomes. If you had 0 crit chance, I can guarantee that SimCraft would have it higher than Intellect in scaling value. It's only low in priority because you already have typically about 20% crit in a 25 man raid, and thus you don't really need more. I used to do a shit ton of theorycrafting in the days before SimCraft, and finding the scaling values was what I did for myself back in the TBC days. I'm sure there is a "minimum" that you want to have, but nothing that you would aim for. As far as I'm aware there is no way to prevent getting crit rating on your gear, and as such you'll just get crit anyway.

[Delia]

I would like to point out that there surely is a "minimum" amount of crit rating that you would want, because the lower you get with it the more valuable it becomes. If you had 0 crit chance, I can guarantee that SimCraft would have it higher than Intellect in scaling value. It's only low in priority because you already have typically about 20% crit in a 25 man raid, and thus you don't really need more. I used to do a shit ton of theorycrafting in the days before SimCraft, and finding the scaling values was what I did for myself back in the TBC days. I'm sure there is a "minimum" that you want to have, but nothing that you would aim for. As far as I'm aware there is no way to prevent getting crit rating on your gear, and as such you'll just get crit anyway.

Very much doubt that crit would ever be valued over int no matter how low it was, as int gives both spell power and critical chance (at a lower rate than crit rating, but still high enough that it should always theoretically outweigh it) If you had 0 crit, it might outweigh some secondary stats, but you'll never have 0 crit rating, and even if you did, you still wouldn't have 0% critical chance due to outside buffs and intellect.

So the answer is: in a realistic situation, crit will always be behind haste, mastery, hit (if undercapped) and intellect for a demo lock, unless they give some new mechanic that requires us to crit (like "when X crit, Y happens" or if our spells more than doubled on a critical strike)

If you somehow had 0 intellect and 0 crit rating, you'd still have 10% crit from raid buffs (as long as you have one of the classes who provide the 5% aura), and your pet would have 20% crit due to HoG... and you'll never have 0 intellect or crit rating, so yea >.>

[Ferali]

Simcraft with no shadowbolt or fel flame a dot only situation you will get:

1.0176

0.8330

0.9593

Crit / Haste / mastery

So before you guys reply what i said is bullshit go sim it yourself without sbolt haste isnt your best stat point, in a multi dotting situation haste value is reduced.

[Penguin FTW]

How did you sim that, did you give it infinite targets to tab dot around? Did you run a normal sim, except just remove shadowbolt and fel flame as options so it was sitting there until something needed refreshing on a one target fight?

Because you still need to cast shadowbolt on multi-target fights. If you go beyond the point of maintaining stacks of shadow embrace on your multi-dot targets, that becomes AoE