Feral druids... possible fix

[Reith]

1. Perhaps but ret paladins don't fall to Scare Beast and Hibernate like feral druids do.

2.Resto druid says Hi

I know for a fact you can Shapeshift to avoid Hibernate and you can Shapeshift to avoid Polymorph, so your argument doesn't hold much weight.

[Silaryn]

I know for a fact you can Shapeshift to avoid Hibernate and you can Shapeshift to avoid Polymorph, so your argument doesn't hold much weight.

1.Chain CC

Example

Cyclone > Hibernate
Scare Beast > Hibernate

2.True if your paying attention you can shapeshift out of cat to avoid it but there are times when you need to focus down something regardless of if your about to be hibernated (Killing an enemy FC at 2k health in RBGS all by himself)

[Angy]

I have been a feral druid hater for a long time. When I say long time, I mean long time, like since tbc. I get scared when they pop up with pounce

Then come 4.2, they get buffed for "scaling" reasons then comes hotfix, a trinket gets nerfed to nerf feral druids..How brilliant..

Things that are wrong about ferals are;

They don't need to sit on the target, they can actually put a 5cp rip then almost do whatever they want.

A lot of dodge. Really too much. I am a warrior and I have experienced times that my 16seconds rend, that gets refreshed by mortal strike that has 5 seconds cooldown, fell off and I spent 4 global cooldowns repeatedly just to rend the druid.

Almost the best defensive cooldown of all game. Frenzied Regeneration; If they attack you, you get healed and keep pretty much exact same hp. If they don't attack you.. Well.. You keep doing damage, pretty weak but it is damage.
Instant Cyclone, Roots, Nature's Grasp, Survival Instincts, Barkskin.

Predator's Swiftness absolutely needs an inner cooldown of 30-45 seconds. This one is not fair to any class in game. Ferals should not have an instant casting buff on them almost all the time they hit something. I am not saying it is incredibly hard to reflect an instant cyclone(Well..of course unless you are a warrior.) but even if you manage to reflect cyclones that are cast on you every 25seconds, cyclone will still eventually beat you. It makes you gain an unpreventable 6 seconds no matter what you are doing and I think everything in game that is unpreventable is very, veeeery unfair.

[Gazzok]

2. Rework cyclone. Why is this the only cc in the game that cant be cleansed? Makes no sense...

Rogues do have the ability Blind which cannot be cleansed aswell. I know it can be broken by damage, but really, if you aren't stupid you wont hit a blinded guy

[Deleted]

awww QQers....

all classes have advantages/disadvantages and its how you utilise what you have that makes you a good player, not going onto a forum and saying OMG they are overpowered!

Ive played feral druid a very long time, since Vanilla, and i actually played PVP feral druid in vanilla... before we had mangle, feral charge or cyclone. Yet i still managed to do quite well. All thats happened is theyve brought feral druid into line with almost every other class. We have 1 CC that works on everybody (cyclone) but you cant use it in feral forms. We also have roots, but thats wasted on a range player so thats a bit hit and miss really.

Bare in mind classes like paladins have they're bubble which is 6 second immunity (correct me if im wrong), and you cant do anything about that. yet i dont see a QQ about paladins being able to bubble.

Druids have a useful spell, how about you just man up, deal with it, and work out how to fight it on your own rather than just saying the class that has always been left behind in PvP has suddenly got mediocre and you cant faceroll them any more

[Togarox]

Personally I think all abilities that cause you to lose control of your character (fear, stuns, cyclone, sheep etc) should have the same diminishing returns collectivly. But who am I kidding, that would never happen because it would ruin some classes (rogues and locks for example).

[Deleted]

Double post

[Wolfdragon]

Feral druid "fix" ? Since when are they broken? Want to hear a tale of a broken mechanic? Fear/Polymorph don't share DR, that's something to talk about, this is just a waste of time.
Now in reality, you're proposing a nerf to a melee that is the cc heaviest melee in the game, and if you're sayin feral damage is way out of line when they're alone or anythin you need a braincheck or to get some more rating before you talk, in any kittycleave in most ebola cleaves hell in almost any feral combo (excluding some Junglecleaves and FMP against certain combo's) feral is BEHIND on damage, way behind, than their partner atleast, you say berserk is an easy burst macro? Recklessness+ Bladestorm against a no disarm team says hi.
Thing is you guys are all so biased about feral druids, none of the complainers play one, they just hate the fact that they got peeled by a cyclone at a crutial point, butthurt is the term I believe, nontheless it's not their fault they didn't cc the druid it's the druids fault for playing well!
For real now take a look at the EU invitational (first tournament since cata) 8 teams, 7 lock shaman teams 1 RMP, Locks and Shamans are clearly in-line with everybody else, so we're gonna qq about ferals who never even showed up on tournaments, and are only (barely) averagely represented in the gladiator cutoff for 1 season, sure there is a ton more ferals who got 2.7+ after 4.2 but they can't camp the rating, why are you so blindly chasing the feral nerf, when we aren't even by far close to what frost dk's we're in 4.1 I mean we don't have AMZ for the peel immunity, we don't have lichborne for fear immunity we don't have IBF for stun immunity hell only thing we do have is 2 rootbreaks every 2 and a half minutes and the ability to look like a level 20 druid at level 85.
Anyway, if you want to "put us in-line" with other melee, multiple floor arenas are gonna need to have their edges removed, stand on thet edge of the pillar in blades edge and I can't shred you, how's that fair? stand on the edge at dalaran sewers I can't shred you how's that fair? jump like a cheapass on every move I can't shred you, how's that fair? nope nobody sees how broken the class is they just see that some people who they envy for having higher rating rolling ferals, since feral is in a warrior/paladin combo it's immidiately deemed faceroll, however that's 1 feral combo, albeit the most effective one atm still just 1 combo. Feral is fine in junglecleaves FMP's Stealthcleaves hell we aren't OP in any scenario, it's our partners, we're just the best class to support them, i.e. Hpala healing is totally balanced with 75k WoG crits, so is warrior damage with 120% of my health in one reckstorm(160-170% with sweeping strikes (talking singletarget damage taken AoE is probably too high for your brain)). My idea, nerf resto shamans and warlocks, then we will see about ferals, since they are by far the smaller fish in the pond.

[Silaryn]

Feral druid "fix" ? Since when are they broken? Want to hear a tale of a broken mechanic? Fear/Polymorph don't share DR, that's something to talk about, this is just a waste of time.

Now in reality, you're proposing a nerf to a melee that is the cc heaviest melee in the game, and if you're sayin feral damage is way out of line when they're alone or anythin you need a braincheck or to get some more rating before you talk, in any kittycleave in most ebola cleaves hell in almost any feral combo (excluding some Junglecleaves and FMP against certain combo's) feral is BEHIND on damage, way behind, than their partner atleast, you say berserk is an easy burst macro? Recklessness+ Bladestorm against a no disarm team says hi.

Thing is you guys are all so biased about feral druids, none of the complainers play one, they just hate the fact that they got peeled by a cyclone at a crutial point, butthurt is the term I believe, nontheless it's not their fault they didn't cc the druid it's the druids fault for playing well!

For real now take a look at the EU invitational (first tournament since cata) 8 teams, 7 lock shaman teams 1 RMP, Locks and Shamans are clearly in-line with everybody else, so we're gonna qq about ferals who never even showed up on tournaments, and are only (barely) averagely represented in the gladiator cutoff for 1 season, sure there is a ton more ferals who got 2.7+ after 4.2 but they can't camp the rating, why are you so blindly chasing the feral nerf, when we aren't even by far close to what frost dk's we're in 4.1 I mean we don't have AMZ for the peel immunity, we don't have lichborne for fear immunity we don't have IBF for stun immunity hell only thing we do have is 2 rootbreaks every 2 and a half minutes and the ability to look like a level 20 druid at level 85.

Anyway, if you want to "put us in-line" with other melee, multiple floor arenas are gonna need to have their edges removed, stand on thet edge of the pillar in blades edge and I can't shred you, how's that fair? stand on the edge at dalaran sewers I can't shred you how's that fair? jump like a cheapass on every move I can't shred you, how's that fair?

nope nobody sees how broken the class is they just see that some people who they envy for having higher rating rolling ferals, since feral is in a warrior/paladin combo it's immidiately deemed faceroll, however that's 1 feral combo, albeit the most effective one atm still just 1 combo. Feral is fine in junglecleaves FMP's Stealthcleaves hell we aren't OP in any scenario, it's our partners, we're just the best class to support them, i.e. Hpala healing is totally balanced with 75k WoG crits, so is warrior damage with 120% of my health in one reckstorm(160-170% with sweeping strikes (talking singletarget damage taken AoE is probably too high for your brain)).

My idea, nerf resto shamans and warlocks, then we will see about ferals, since they are by far the smaller fish in the pond.

Fixed that massive wall of text

[Deleted]

Feral druid "fix" ? Since when are they broken?

Sure they arent broken at higher rating but between 1500-2k they are by far the most annoying and op class atm thats why you see so much more feral hate then warlock hate. Its close to completely fail playing a druid unlike a warlock or mage they are the new faceroll Dks. You might think the balance at glad rating is more important but its the millions of casual pvpers that wow needs to apeal to not the thousand glad players.

My idea, nerf resto shamans and warlocks, then we will see about ferals, since they are by far the smaller fish in the pond.

Sure but healers dont competite with dps over arena spots so you have to compare them seperately. I agree that locks are too good atm but in far from perfect play at lower ratings they are merely strong or sometimes even downright weak. If you go by numbers in 22s,33s at 1500-2200 ferals are by far the biggest fish in the pond.

---------- Post added 2011-08-11 at 05:58 PM ----------

i.e. Hpala healing is totally balanced with 75k WoG crits, so is warrior damage with 120% of my health in one reckstorm(160-170% with sweeping strikes (talking singletarget damage taken AoE

Balance healers with other healers.

A warrs reckless whirlwind is very straightforward to avoid (speed increases, dgrip him away from allies, disarm, does push back work?) Unlike cyclone which unless your healer has the druid on focus and a targetfocus dispel marco and has super reflects and prediction isnt avoidable.

Also if you complaining about losing dps when someone stand on the edges, it isnt just a feral thing rogues have it alot worse, their dps cd shadowdance relies on them doing it from behind.

[Wolfdragon]

As to the point that rogues have it worse, I'd say it's about equal, but you do acknowledge the point, only way to peel a warrior during bladestorm is disarm, while I know that quite a couple classes have disarms ( I counted 4, could be more ) there is multiple combo's that simply don't, and sadly you can't run out of bladestorm if it's properly executed, or well bladestorm maybe, Reckstorm... not likely (just because only idiots use that when they can get peeled) knockbacks don't work, neighter does DG, point proven.
Thanks for the wall of text fix btw, I tend to get carried away!

[Surfd]

Almost the best defensive cooldown of all game. Frenzied Regeneration; If they attack you, you get healed and keep pretty much exact same hp. If they don't attack you.. Well.. You keep doing damage, pretty weak but it is damage.
Instant Cyclone, Roots, Nature's Grasp, Survival Instincts, Barkskin.

So glad you qualified that with an "almost". Seeing as Frenzied Regen is pretty much garbage compared to warrior's Enraged Regeneration. It only works in bear, and it consumes our rage. We either get Damage from rage, or health from rage, unlike a warrior, who just pops ER and goes on ripping your face off. Not to mention that it is almost impossible to get a "full" frenzied regen heal off, unless someone is dumb enough to keep wailing on you while it is going.

[Frosties]

Ret paladins say hi.

and holy is even worse right now. worst healing class in PvP to be atm.

um LOLOLOL and LOLOLOL, that was pretty good all around...

Holy pali atm is just insane, takes a good bit of CC, nevermind 1v1...

[Wolfdragon]

Oh and I wouldn't comment on Cyclone, as it has a 20 yard range, healers have a 40 yard range for heals, it can be LoS'd and even dispelled by offensive magic dispells, it's far from unstoppable, if you're with in 20 yards to the druid, you're lucky that he cycloned you as a healer you're lucky he isn't smart enough to move 3-4 yards and interrupt you for a lockout.

As with any class you can see a huge difference in skill level between the 2.7 2.9 and 2.2 players it's simply not the same thing, it's not even the same game in most eyes, hell the only reason those ferals are so dominant is because that's the entry level, I mean if you start off and you aren't at that level where else would you be? sub 1500? Only reason there's so many ferals is cuz they're the current FoTM, not strenght wise, but ammount of players on the class wise, 2200 rating is achievable by ANY combo in the game, hell I even did it as feral double frost dk when frost dk's got that insane buff(I obviously did it just for fun I'm actually much higher rated( but I think how high isn't going to prove my point so I'll leave it out )).

PvP below 2400 is just chaotic, so many random combo's so many random tactics, and so many healer tunnels it's not even funny, it's sad, you just have to I guess adapt and... win. Regardless of combo.

There is this tale I know about the warrior Boetar and how he got 3k last season, he sniped RMP's as Doublesham Warr, and he played it at 3k rating thanks to it, I never heard a feral could do that in any combo, or hell that any other healer completely locks out and negates a certain class to that extent that it can't do ANYTHING if it's twice the ammount of that healer you can't cast or make anything effective(rshaman vs. mage or well any caster... Grounding and windshear x2= poly once in never and even then maybe not) it's clear we aren't the strongest, hell not even by far, the point is moot.

If you want me to analyse it for you, the reason ferals are so popular between 1500-2200 is because any other melee with the same skill level is at 2300+ rating.

Oh and, I'm sorry but Blizzard does indeed need to cater to the thousands of Gladiators as opposed to milions of "average"(even though in everybody's eyes they're below average) 1500-2200 players as opposed to PvE where the game is balanced around the average guild, in pvp it has to be balanced around the maximum of the class, because otherwise, it's going to be the same old classes at high end ( come to think of it, that might be the reason why restoshamans and locks are there in such numbers ) but you'd have diversity at the lower ratings, imo if all classes were in line, we'd have diversity everywhere, not such monotony as are lock/shaman teams at above 2700. I think arena would all round be much better and more enjoyable if there were more speccs involved fire mages ,destro/demo locks surv hunters, combat rogues, the fact that feral is strong just makes for diversity which is a big part of the fun/challenge imo I see nothing wrong with having lots of strong classes but I do see a problem when there are certain classes that absolutely dominate a bracket I think we all know who I'm talking about .

[motoucle]

I'd actually be content with a 'chase tail' emote.

Damn that would be funny

[Jackmoves]

1. Perhaps but ret paladins don't fall to Scare Beast and Hibernate like feral druids do.

2.Resto druid says Hi

Good feral's dont get caught in Scare beast and Hib though, unless it's a NS Hib or they already being in CC. As a resto druid trying to hardcast Hib or cyclone is really risky to(since it's in nature school), ferals rip you up so fast that you don't have a lot of time to fake cast either.

And on my hunter I don't think I've managed to get 1 scare beast off on a decent feral, can't even scatter shot->scare beast them because they can still switch forms when they are in scatter for some fucked up reason.

[Deleted]

So its not feral druids damage that is ridiculous.

The one ability that makes facing them a nightmare is the instant cast cyclone. My thing is I dont think thats fair at all. Considering its not a debuff that can be cleansed by anything.

So 2 things that i would think would help the pvp side of anyone facing a feral druid would be:

1. Make predatory strikes have an internal cooldown of 30 seconds. That way they cant just keep a target cycloned with instant casts while they kill the focus target.

2. Rework cyclone. Why is this the only cc in the game that cant be cleansed? Makes no sense...


Well i hope people can give constructive criticism and not troll it but i guess we will see

Make cyclone last half it's duration
Just nerf some of feral damage for pvp uses, like they fixed colussus smatch

[Yotei]

Make cyclone last half it's duration
Just nerf some of feral damage for pvp uses, like they fixed colussus smatch

I'm glad you're not on the development team. All I'm going to say, other than that's a horrible idea.

1.Chain CC

Example

Cyclone > Hibernate
Scare Beast > Hibernate

2.True if your paying attention you can shapeshift out of cat to avoid it but there are times when you need to focus down something regardless of if your about to be hibernated (Killing an enemy FC at 2k health in RBGS all by himself)

Point #1 isn't a good example at all considering you can drop form while in a CC.
Point #2 is very situational and also grasping for anything but whatever, I'd let you have that one still.

Also, about the mangle-spam comment you made earlier that any Feral who does it is terrible. If you can't manage to get behind your target then you replace Shred with Mangle until you can, which sometimes can result in mangle-spam. Using a skill that does a few thousand less or not using any skill at all is better, surely. Obviously if you can get behind the target then Shred's better but just saying.

[Deleted]

I'm glad you're not on the development team. All I'm going to say, other than that's a horrible idea.

Why, they say damage will be affected too much pve if nerfed pvp, just separate the two and win-win, no?
And cyclone, since it's undispellable they can fix other stuff if they just reduce the duration

[Yotei]

Why, they say damage will be affected too much pve if nerfed pvp, just separate the two and win-win, no?
And cyclone, since it's undispellable they can fix other stuff if they just reduce the duration

They said the damage that resulted from Unheeded Warning was too much (which was nerfed), or Beserk. Not all their damaging abilities.

Secondly, it's already 6 seconds which is already a shorter CC than quite a few other ones. Making the ability to proc an instant-cyclone have an internal cooldown would be fine but cutting it down to 3 seconds? Does that really seem like a good idea to you?..