Shadow - PvE Silence build?

[Kelesti]

So, I've been playing around as Shadow lately, but the problem when you play a healer full-time is you see a piece of utility and you just have to have it in your DPS spec. Or maybe that's just me, and I'm on crack. I don't know, this could be the case.

Generally, Shadow Priests don't pick up Silence because it costs three talent points, and we only really have two to play with after our DPS increasing talents are all fleshed out. But if someone with severe OCD like me needed to get it for their 10-man, 5's, soloing old world, whatever reason.... Where would the best place for that third talent point come from? One that would have the least impact in PvE, that is.

Am I right in thinking I should be dropping down to 1/2 Masochism to fill this out, or is there somewhere that's better, and I'm just potentially an idiot? Well, the idiot thing may be true either way, but still!


Oh yeah, inb4 "get someone else to interrupt for you" responses.

[Deleted]

----...................

[Kelesti]

A PvE build running without Archangel? Not feasible. Something more like this:
http://www.wowhead.com/talent#bcroZZGrGdMkRd0fo ?

Unless of course, someone can point out a "ur doin it rong"?

[Omnomnoms]

A PvE build running without Archangel? Not feasible.
http://www.wowhead.com/talent#bcroZZGrGdMkRd0fo ?

Glad you noticed/realized that. Personally this is the spec I would use if you MUST have silence and want to still have good DPS.

http://www.wowhead.com/talent#bcroZZGMGdMkrd0fo

Notes: Yes I know you don't have Veiled Shadows. So you might be slightly desperate for mana and will have a minor DPS loss by not being able to Fiend as much on fights. Also you're lacking Psychic Horror, but I'm assuming you do not need it and require only the silence effect.
This spec also leaves you with 1 more point to put where you'd like. You can take 1/2 Veiled Shadows, 1/3 Inner Sanctum for magic damage, or even grab the Psychic Horror while you're at it.

I'm assuming you don't need help/advice with which glyphs to take (they will be the same) but if you find yourself with mana problems and can time it right, the Glyph of Dispersion CAN (<-- notice the CAN) be sub'd out for the Glyph of Shadow Word: Death.

Just my opinion.

[MushroomBomb]

I think something like this would be the closest thing. The last point would be (in my opinion) between one point in Masochism or Psychic Horror (I imagine one point in Masochism would be more of a mana gain than the last poing in Mental Agility.

EDIT: Upon further thought, I think the spec mentioned in the post above me is probably better. I chose Veiled Shadows over Masochism simply because I didn't consider the amount of raid damage you'll often be hit by in raids. I imagine the net mana gain of Masochism is on average larger than what you'd get with an extra Shadowfiend (which is what Veiled Shadows amounts to on most fights).

But I can give you a slight bit of background for why I don't use Silence in my super-casual non-raiding non-seriously-PvPing build: for 5's, soloing and general PvP, I find that Psychic Horror works for most enemies as a silence. However, that doesn't account for boss abilities needing interruption in most 5's, and certainly not for 10-mans. But you sound like you can't live without it, and I think the above build shouldn't lose any significant damage in return for a bit of utility.

[Omnomnoms]

I think something like this would be the closest thing. The last point would be (in my opinion) between one point in Masochism or Psychic Horror (I imagine one point in Masochism would be more of a mana gain than the last poing in Mental Agility.

But I can give you a slight bit of background for why I don't use Silence in my super-casual non-raiding non-seriously-PvPing build: for 5's, soloing and general PvP, I find that Psychic Horror works for most enemies as a silence. However, that doesn't account for boss abilities needing interruption in most 5's, and certainly not for 10-mans. But you sound like you can't live without it, and I think the above build shouldn't lose any significant damage in return for a bit of utility.

I would also agree to this Build. Basically the choice is between Masochism and Veiled Shadows, both of which give you mana return and only 1 of them giving you a slight DPS increase. I chose Masochism simply because I have no problem with mana, tons of fights in Firelands and old content have AoE pulses which will give you that 10% mana back with each tick.

In the end I think it is just a personal choice Kelesti.

Edited for spelling x.x

[MushroomBomb]

In the end I think it is just a personal choice Kelesti.

I think this is the ultimate answer to your thread. As long as you gain all the big damage upgrades (which is basically everything that ups your total damage done apart from Veiled Shadows, as far as I'm aware/can see), it's entirely up to you. I guess that, ideally, you'd want a build where you're at the very end of your mana pool at each and every fight while still having used every single piece of damage available to you. ANd I guess we can dream about that, but for now it's more or less a choice.

/high-five

[UunaPriest]

This has bothered me a lot, Psychic Horror has almost no use in PvE (at least in Firelands) everything on which it might be useful (such as adds on Ragnaros) is immune!!!!

And silence takes too many points to be viable in such a raid setting. I really wish blizzard would swap the locations of silence and psychic horror in the shadow tree.

[Arlee]

I haven't looked at the other links so sorry if someone else posted something similar. This is the spec I used for Cho'gal in the last tier because our group definitely had trouble with getting rid of the MC and stuff. Other places I moved the points about from always seemed to affect my dps more than this one (though it could have also been due to other factors as well). The thing about taking the point from Masochism is that if you need to use to regen your mana, you prob wouldn't want to drop the point.

The other thing is... well in the current Tier there really doesn't seem to be any real need to be able to silence or fear (more often). The only thing I can think of is on Aly if you are on the ground and need to interrupt the druids. On the flip side... sw: d usage on bosses < 25% health is kind of spotty too because that is also when the most raid damage is going out (on most of the firelands bosses) so losing the point in Masochism would be less of a big deal.

[Skygoneblue]

I'm not sure if the relative value of Improved Mind Blast changed with the 12% buff in 4.2, but after reading the SP thread on Elitist Jerks, I was led to understand that being able to MB 1.5 sec more often really doesn't add that much damage unless you luckily proc several orbs in that timeframe (unlikely).

Try this out. I would find it hard to believe you'd notice much difference.

http://www.wowhead.com/talent#bcGoZZGrMdMkrdzfo

[Arlee]

The buff to MB did make a good bit of a difference, also it had been tweaked before then as well and it was important to cast as much as you could already. Also at higher gear levels it get more and more likely to proc those orbs faster because you can get more MF ticks and sw ticks in that time. Not to mention once you get the T12 4pc casting more MB will be even better.

[Skygoneblue]

Oh cool, good to know. I guess in the (unlikely) event that you don't proc another orb before MB comes off of cooldown, and you're casting it every 6.5 seconds, that at least gives you a little wiggle room with the 15 second duration of Empowered Shadows.

[Xorz]

I'd probably go with the spec Arlee linked above if you really want Silence. I just don't see the need to get Silence in PvE, even while raiding 10 mans, since there's either not much to interrupt or there are other people with an interrupt on a much lower cd than our 45 sec.

[Deleted]

A PvE build running without Archangel? Not feasible. Something more like this:
http://www.wowhead.com/talent#bcroZZGrGdMkRd0fo ?

Unless of course, someone can point out a "ur doin it rong"?

Woops yeah, been a while since i played shadow lol, gonna edit my post to limit confusing

[Kelesti]

Seeing as Arlee's build, my build, and MushroomBomb's original suggestion are identical, I'm glad to know I was on the right track.

That said, I don't see why anyone would give up Veiled Shadows for Masochism. Having more mana that you can't do anything with (Masochism) versus another Shadowfiend for an actual damage increase, it plays into itself pretty well.

[Deleted]

I wouldn't discard 2/2 masochism so easily. I'll be speaking from t11 PoV, since I have not raided in t12, so feel free to disregard my opinion if things have changed a lot. Just because you -end- the fight with full/high mana does not mean the masochism was not useful. The most obvious example would be H Maloriak, where my mana was going up and down like a damn rollercoaster, from full to sub-20% at the end of black phase back to full before start of the next one. I would end the fight with high mana, but that's only due to damage of the last phase - not lack of mana usage. With only 1/2 masochism I'd either be oom halfway through the oozes or I'd have to cut down on multidotting, both of which hit the dps in the groin.I imagine any fight with an intense aoe/multidot phase would be similar.

[Arlee]

@Caine the main reason I disregard Masochism in T12 is that it's sorta hard to really run out of mana, even when multi-dotting, that I don't often find myself running low on mana and the times I do it always seems to line up with when Archangel is coming off CD. Also like I said previously... usage of sw: d at all is pretty limited due to the way raid damage seems to go out (often it is the burn phase the end of the boss fight where the most damage goes out). The last reason I would prefer veiled shadows over masochism is using the shadowfiend every CD will yield more damage than using sw: D throughout the fight. So a shorter CD on the fiend is my preference there

[Abandon]

I wouldn't discard 2/2 masochism so easily. I'll be speaking from t11 PoV, since I have not raided in t12, so feel free to disregard my opinion if things have changed a lot. Just because you -end- the fight with full/high mana does not mean the masochism was not useful. The most obvious example would be H Maloriak, where my mana was going up and down like a damn rollercoaster, from full to sub-20% at the end of black phase back to full before start of the next one. I would end the fight with high mana, but that's only due to damage of the last phase - not lack of mana usage. With only 1/2 masochism I'd either be oom halfway through the oozes or I'd have to cut down on multidotting, both of which hit the dps in the groin.I imagine any fight with an intense aoe/multidot phase would be similar.

Once you gain the 2 piece tier 12 bonus, you have a far, far higher uptime on Shadowfiend because of Sin and Punishment which would help alleviate some of the mana concerns.

[Purpleisbetter]

DPS wise u can actually sacrifice points out of Shadowy Apparition, guess it's less harm. If u go by solo farming, remember that u would need extra mana for some extra f.heals while tanking an old boss or sth; so my choice is to keep masochism.

[Alenoria]

this is my shadow spec:

http://www.wowhead.com/talent#bcrkZZ...d0fo:kMRRMb0zV

i don't use masochism cause i don't have any mana problems with 2 piece t12..... 2min 45sec cd on fiend (at the most) + archangel + spirit tap glyph is all the mana i could ever need.... even in between pulls using dispersion.

before the 2pt12 i had that one point in innerfire as masochism.....