Warrior PvP

[Floreon]

So you just don't play your warlock right? Good locks are sort of difficult to hit. They also take like 0 damage.

ur rong i was on my lock n i got crit for 30k by a rogue so i think that rwawrlocks need a buf

[Daieon]

ur rong i was on my lock n i got crit for 30k by a rogue so i think that rwawrlocks need a buf

Rogues are and always have been OP. We'll fix it bro

[Deleted]

So you just don't play your warlock right? Good locks are sort of difficult to hit. They also take like 0 damage.

I don't know, you tell me. 2k rating in Arena, 1800 in rBG.

I dare even say warlocks are in a bugged shape atm. I have 40.32% dmg reduction of resilience. 29.77% of Armor. 20.00% of Soul Link.

--> 100% - 40.32% - 29.77% - 20.00% = 9.91 %

So basicly only 10% of the normal dmg should be given to me. And I extremely doubt warriors crit for 80k in a reckstorm on training dummies.

---------- Post added 2011-08-20 at 12:50 PM ----------

Rogues are and always have been OP. We'll fix it bro

So you are saying warriors are fine but rogues need a nerf? Do you even play PvP on a decent difficulty?

[Quantitative]

I don't know, you tell me. 2k rating in Arena, 1800 in rBG.

I dare even say warlocks are in a bugged shape atm. I have 40.32% dmg reduction of resilience. 29.77% of Armor. 20.00% of Soul Link.

--> 100% - 40.32% - 29.77% - 20.00% = 9.91 %

So basicly only 10% of the normal dmg should be given to me. And I extremely doubt warriors crit for 80k in a reckstorm on training dummies.

---------- Post added 2011-08-20 at 12:50 PM ----------



So you are saying warriors are fine but rogues need a nerf? Do you even play PvP on a decent difficulty?

Your pvp qualifications are neither impressive nor relevant. Warriors don't hit hard compared to most meele classes right now, warlocks take far less damage than pretty much any other caster. Your problem isn't class based, its skill based. stop.

[Daieon]

Your pvp qualifications are neither impressive nor relevant. Warriors don't hit hard compared to most meele classes right now, warlocks take far less damage than pretty much any other caster. Your problem isn't class based, its skill based. stop.

Why doesn't MMO-C have a thumbs up for you Quant?

[Jpwojcik]

I don't know, you tell me. 2k rating in Arena, 1800 in rBG.

I dare even say warlocks are in a bugged shape atm. I have 40.32% dmg reduction of resilience. 29.77% of Armor. 20.00% of Soul Link.

--> 100% - 40.32% - 29.77% - 20.00% = 9.91 %

So basicly only 10% of the normal dmg should be given to me. And I extremely doubt warriors crit for 80k in a reckstorm on training dummies.[COLOR="red"]

Alright, I'm going to correct your math here. Damage reduction is calculated in two steps:
a = attack, b = damage reduction
Step1: x = a * b
Step2: y = a - x

So say you recieve a 40k unmitigated hit. It is 24k after you take resil into account, 16.8k when you calculate the armor (assuming no armor reductions are up), and around 13.4k after you take soul link into account.

[Deleted]

Your pvp qualifications are neither impressive nor relevant. Warriors don't hit hard compared to most meele classes right now, warlocks take far less damage than pretty much any other caster. Your problem isn't class based, its skill based. stop.

Other casters? You talking about boomkins, elemental shamans, shadow priests and mages? 3/4 have another very viable role while mages has tons of snares, roots and shields so I doubt mages are capable of receiving more damage than warlocks.

Skill based you say? I'll post what I posted in another thread:

"Shaman - Lock requires a lot of skill while TSG and kittycleave can faceroll anything. I have to fakecast 2 times before I can hardcast 5 seconds. Did I pull it off? Fuck yes, I did, I can finally start hardcasting now. I am so happy 'cause I outskilled them! Oh wait, never mind, I got stunned / silenced / DGed and their CD on interrupt is back up. Mind you Interrupt is off the CD, costs nothing (atleast not for rogues or DKs, dunno about wars and ferals) which means they can keep pumping dmg in me while I can try to move away from them with a 70% snare 24/7. Portal you might say? Well, sure, oh wait, DG/charge/Feral Leap/ Shadowstep is off cooldown. AH MAH GAWD U SUK, L2GLYPH SHADOWFLAME! Aight, I did that. What do you say, Oh holy Paladin? Hand of Freedom? Oh but if I fakecasted everything and the stuns and shit are on CD, you can hard cast, right? Well, yes, I in fact can! Oh but the pushbacks of my casts are making my casts longer aswell! And let's not forget about mind numbing or necrotic strike. 3.5 seconds cast on fear you say? Yep, that's right. But oh hey, atleast he is fear and he can't heal, right? Just trinket it, bro. GZ! You feared the Paladin again and your team mate is doing really nice pressure! There is a kill incomming soon! NO WAY! Bubble because fear is bullshit. Fear the DPS? Sure, why not? Berserker rage says hi. He is Lichbornes stronger brother. Father of AMS and Bladestorm. Tell your shaman to l2use his CDs to heal you. I did. And spirit link is so awesome that the warrior can reckstorm us all 3 to death at the same time.

That was the summary of a "skilled" game of TSG."

Please, tell me, Quantitative, what I can do better. As my rating isn't impressive I assume you play WLS on 2400+ rating, which I extremely doubt as the highest WLS team has 2400 rating according to AJ rankings.

I doubt you can give me a constructive post with serious data so I'll do the same with you in a TLDR version as I know Warriors aren't used to complicated things (I assume you are a warrior as you are really defensivly against this class). Here it is:

TLDR: Stop pulling out "facts" without any evidence. If you have problems with warlocks, you are the one who is having troubles with skill.

Sorry for the flaming, but it is the truth. And sometimes it hurts but it has to be said.

---------- Post added 2011-08-21 at 02:10 AM ----------

Alright, I'm going to correct your math here. Damage reduction is calculated in two steps:
a = attack, b = damage reduction
Step1: x = a * b
Step2: y = a - x

So say you recieve a 40k unmitigated hit. It is 24k after you take resil into account, 16.8k when you calculate the armor (assuming no armor reductions are up), and around 13.4k after you take soul link into account.

X = a * b --> X = 40000 *0.9009 = 36036 --> X = 36036
Y = a - X --> Y = 40000 - 36036 = 3964 --> Y = 3964

I assume Y is the DMG I receive? How did you get 13.4k as 90.09% = 90.09/100 = 0.9009?

I get hit with Bladestorm for 8k crit. That's kind of double of 3964, which is Y. X is always 36036 for me and won't change (unless I change my resilience, armor or soul link). So to know if your math is correct a should be the dmg done of 1 bladestorm tick on a training dummy with the same gear, procs, trinkets, ...
So we know:
Y = 8000.
X = 36036.
a = ?
--> y = a - x --> -a = -x - y --> -a = -36036 - 8000 = -44036 --> a = 44036.

According to your calculation the 8k bladestorm crit should crit training dummies for 44k. I don't know about you but I doubt a warrior can do 440k DPS on the trash in Baradin Hold as Arms. (10 adds in BH, 1 for every member, 6 seconds bladestorm. Which results in: (44k dmg * 10) * 6 seconds = 2.640.000 dmg / 6 sec = 440k dmg / sec (DPS) )

[Quantitative]

While I do have a warrior, he is an alt. I play both a resto sham and a disc priest. You could have armoried my name to try to at least find out what class I play. Shamans and Warlocks are two of the best classes right now, if you are having a problem with both on your team I can assure you it isn't because of warrior damage. Any good TSG won't sit a warlock all game because the pressure they will put out is absolutely horrid when compared to what they could do to your other team members. In regards to that paragraph, the only thing I got out of that is that two meele can shut down one caster. Are you playing without teammates, because it sure as hell sounds like it.

Edit: Never did I say I had problems with warlocks. In fact, the two classes I play both do fairly well against locks.

[Deleted]

While I do have a warrior, he is an alt. I play both a resto sham and a disc priest. You could have armoried my name to try to at least find out when class I play. Shamans and Warlocks are two of the best classes right now, if you are having a problem with both on your team I can assure you it isn't because of warrior damage. Any good TSG won't sit a warlock all game because the pressure they will put out is absolutely horrid when compared to what they could do to your other team members. In regards to that paragraph, the only thing I got out of that is that two meele can shut down one caster. Are you playing without teammates, because it sure as hell sounds like it.

According to my findings, and probably you agree, my warrior can't outdamage a paladins heals. If you would have read that paragraph, you would have read that I can't do anything which results in 1000 dps (can only keep on BoA as corruption gets dispelled by a "smart" paladin who notices no UA because I can't cast). While the two DPS can keep on bursting me. If I survive our healer will get OOM and there is no way for him to go drink with 2 melee on me. (Reason why he is OOM? NS + War DMG needs him to non stop cast on me.) You might not know this yet, well, you probably should if you think my rating is far from impressive, but arena isn't all about damage. Why go on the shaman and let the lock free cast (which results in a lot of DMG and CC) and might get a kill on the shaman while it is so easy to outheal 1 DPS DMG as a holy paladin while almost 0 CC go out (besides Howl which can be dispelled, berserkered or even lichborned and hex)?

[Quantitative]

So basically you have a shaman and a warrior who both can't do a thing to get anyone off of you, even with portals and fears? Zerk isn't up for every fear, lichborn isn't up for every fear, if you can't manage to put up ua at all with two meele on the other team this isn't a problem with warriors or dks, it's a problem with your team not being able to be useful. If your warrior can't help to keep at least one of them off of you for the most part, why is he even on your team? This isn't a comp or even a class being too good, this is your team not understanding how to play against a meele cleave.

[Deleted]

So basically you have a shaman and a warrior who both can't do a thing to get anyone off of you, even with portals and fears? Zerk isn't up for every fear, lichborn isn't up for every fear, if you can't manage to put up ua at all with two meele on the other team this isn't a problem with warriors or dks, it's a problem with your team not being able to be useful. If your warrior can't help to keep at least one of them off of you for the most part, why is he even on your team? This isn't a comp or even a class being too good, this is your team not understanding how to play against a meele cleave.

See "Summary of TSG gameplay" for why I can't hardcast fears. I think he is a good player (Intervene shaman when he gets scattered shot, spell reflect, sit on icetrap. Didn't even know this was possible, but I don't play a hunter and I don't have such an ability so I can't care less about that) who knows what he is doing so I doubt the warrior, me or the shaman needs to learn to play (the shaman uses hex very frequently but at 2k rating the DKs are having arena unit frames with enemy casting bars which let them use AMS. And a 8 second hex on the warrior isn't that bad because the DK can keep on going NSing which brings our shaman out of time to heal me.

[Quantitative]

I read your "summary of TSG gameplay" and the you are letting them do what they want. That's super nice that your warrior has an intervene macro, it doesn't mean he has any concept of how to peel and stop pressure. Feel free to compare the cooldown of AMS with that of hex, here is a hint, you can't ams every hex. Hell, if your shaman is any kind of good he can juke the ams then hex the warrior. How can you justify saying that ccing one of their dps for full duration isn't a big deal. A dk can't solo you, if he can that is an entire bag of new problems that you have.

[Deleted]

I read your "summary of TSG gameplay" and the you are letting them do what they want. That's super nice that your warrior has an intervene macro, it doesn't mean he has any concept of how to peel and stop pressure. Feel free to compare the cooldown of AMS with that of hex, here is a hint, you can't ams every hex. Hell, if your shaman is any kind of good he can juke the ams then hex the warrior. How can you justify saying that ccing one of their dps for full duration isn't a big deal. A dk can't solo you, if he can that is an entire bag of new problems that you have.

I am not saying the DK can solo me. I am saying that while the shaman is casting the DK stacks more NS on me. Which leads to a fallback of healing. Ofcourse Hex is better than nothing. He can Hex the War, that's for sure but if everything goes to plan and no one dies, who do you think will be OOM the fastest? The paladin or the shaman?

[Quantitative]

You don't let your shaman go oom? You know, games can end from methods other than healer mana. Hex doesn't have a super long cast time, the NS build up during one class isn't enough to end the game, if it is your shaman is bad. Everything going to plan isn't the game coming down to a mana war, its ending the game with a kill on either the warrior or paladin.

[Deleted]

You don't let your shaman go oom? You know, games can end from methods other than healer mana. Hex doesn't have a super long cast time, the NS build up during one class isn't enough to end the game, if it is your shaman is bad. Everything going to plan isn't the game coming down to a mana war, its ending the game with a kill on either the warrior or paladin.

I can't kill the paladin with the hardcasting issue and because he can LoS easily. My dots won't kill a paladin and I need the warrior to try and peel them off me. With the fact that if we get a perfect CC chain to kill someone (what X-L-S is all about), the Paladin just bubbles.

No matter what you are trying to say here, you can't deny warriors are in a very good shape and don't require a lot of skill to be succesfull. Well, tbh, you can never say a TSG or kittycleave outskilled us due to MMR being almost the same and the fact my team has to do a lot more to try and survive while meleecleaves just have to spam the same buttons over and over untill the game is over.

[Quantitative]

Your warrior can do damage while peeling and you aren't tunneling the paladin, you dot him once his teammates are allready under pressure and you hard swap him. I will deny that warriors are in great shape, there are far better meele classes right now that can do a warriors job far better than them. A lot of the skill cap to warriors was recently removed (stance dancing etc...) so yes, they don't require an incredible ammount of skill. Congrats, you have to outplay a comp that soft counters you, welcome to arenas.

[Dristereau]

Best idea is to get a trinket for some extra help, but warriors at 85 are much better than when they are levelling. You finally get a 2nd way of moving around (heroic leap), collosus smash is very nice, and improved slam/mortal strike are always welcome. For me aswell I play a worgen warr so darkflight + bladestorm = lolfest However, remember to get pvp gear or anything will beat the living daylight outta you.

[Warlesswarrior1]

Your warrior can do damage while peeling and you aren't tunneling the paladin, you dot him once his teammates are allready under pressure and you hard swap him. I will deny that warriors are in great shape, there are far better meele classes right now that can do a warriors job far better than them. A lot of the skill cap to warriors was recently removed (stance dancing etc...) so yes, they don't require an incredible ammount of skill. Congrats, you have to outplay a comp that soft counters you, welcome to arenas.

How effective are warriors at peeling with one charge in arms? Does intervene and piercing howl/hamstring with only 50% slow compete to others at 70%?

[Quantitative]

How effective are warriors at peeling with one charge in arms? Does intervene and piercing howl/hamstring with only 50% slow compete to others at 70%?

Imp hamstring, throwdown, aoe chargestun talent, intimshout, disarm, doing damage to force an opponent defensive, spell reflecting cc back at enemies. Oh geez, thats a pretty good ammount of options. In regards to howl not being good, if the lock gets some distance through porting or if the is a momentary lapse in the application of slows howl can stop the dk/warrior from getting back to the lock very well.

Edit for spelling.

[Deleted]

Your warrior can do damage while peeling and you aren't tunneling the paladin, you dot him once his teammates are allready under pressure and you hard swap him. I will deny that warriors are in great shape, there are far better meele classes right now that can do a warriors job far better than them. A lot of the skill cap to warriors was recently removed (stance dancing etc...) so yes, they don't require an incredible ammount of skill. Congrats, you have to outplay a comp that soft counters you, welcome to arenas.

Even 90% of the loss against that team was they getting outplayed by us. Imo, arena should be: the higher your skill / the better you are, the higher your rating. 2200 TSG in my eyes seems like any non-meleecleave on 1450 - 1500 rating.

That's my opinion but I think a lot of people will agree with me here.

---------- Post added 2011-08-21 at 03:26 AM ----------

Imp hamstring, throwdown, aoe chargestun talent, intimshout, disarm, doing damage to force an opponent defensive, spell reflecting cc back at enemies. Oh geez, thats a pretty good ammount of options. In regards to howl not being good, if the lock gets some distance through porting or if the is a momentary lapse in the application of slows howl can stop the dk/warrior from getting back to the lock very well.

Edit for spelling.

Charge / DG / CoI.