[Megathread] Wildstar - Now F2P

[RoninaThorstone]

I think it will come down to how good their elder games are, and they haven't shown much of that at all. If they make a great endgame with meaningful progression that people can get into, whether it be through raids, housing, pvp, the world or whatever, I think people will pay the sub.

And they have to do a good job redoing their leveling zones in order for enough people to reach their elder games.

[Pejo]

And they have to do a good job redoing their leveling zones in order for enough people to reach their elder games.

I really want to quote this. I do agree that it is important that they do Elder Game well (see SWTOR); however, if players don't even get to Elder game, it's useless. Using Blizzard's data, we know that the majority of players quit even before top level, especially in Vanilla. This was the reason for the Cataclysm revamp. Sadly, for Carbine to succeed, they NEED to do everything right...the first time, as subscription is already a barrier for potential players.

P.S. Guest passes are an excellent idea and I'm glad they're including them.

[Fencers]

Wowza. Just catching up on all the delicious threads across the internet w/r/t payment model.

I can't think of any MMO in recent years with this strong a vocal souring.

[RoninaThorstone]

I really want to quote this. I do agree that it is important that they do Elder Game well (see SWTOR); however, if players don't even get to Elder game, it's useless. Using Blizzard's data, we know that the majority of players quit even before top level, especially in Vanilla. This was the reason for the Cataclysm revamp. Sadly, for Carbine to succeed, they NEED to do everything right...the first time, as subscription is already a barrier for potential players.

P.S. Guest passes are an excellent idea and I'm glad they're including them.

Their first attempt leaves me with very little confidence in their second attempt.

In terms of "leveling" it's one of the least engaging MMOs I've played. It's far behind swtor, lotro, gw2, nwo, or even age of conan. It feels more like Tera or [redacted] questing. Boar pelts for characters you can't bring yourself to care about.

But, they know it needs a lot of work. That's a plus.

edit: That was unfair to chocolate rift. It's over arching plot threads were pretty well done.

[Khain]

Their first attempt leaves me with very little confidence in their second attempt.

In terms of "leveling" it's one of the least engaging MMOs I've played. It's far behind swtor, lotro, gw2, nwo, or even age of conan. It feels more like Tera or [redacted] questing. Boar pelts for characters you can't bring yourself to care about.

But, they know it needs a lot of work. That's a plus.

edit: That was unfair to chocolate rift. It's over arching plot threads were pretty well done.

Because it's a game focused on endgame, how it should be, they talked a lot about this.

[Smitzelplix]

Because it's a game focused on endgame, how it should be, they talked a lot about this.

The discussion is, if the leveling experience is not very good then the endgame won't matter because people will give up on it long before they reach level cap. That's what Bardarian is talking about. Wildstar has to hook people during the leveling process or they won't bother going for endgame, so yeah they do have to focus on leveling as well.

[zito]

Because it's a game focused on endgame, how it should be, they talked a lot about this.

People judge the game before they hit end game and end game should reflect some what of the leveling process.

If they really want to focus on elder game they would just scratch leveling all together and lean more sandbox with no levels/gear treadmill for initial raids.

[Deleted]

I was very happy to read about the Wildstar business model.
I like the P2P model, since I THINK it bring better quality and keep away a lot of unwanted people. With that said I also think that they will not survive long with a P2P business model. I think you need to be really really good in order to validate a subscription fee for a larger amount of the player base.

Most likely Wildstar will change their business model along the road, most likely when their production costs has been covered and they feel that they cant provide new content unless they change something. I hope for the love of my heart that I am wrong here, and that they will become successful with their P2P model and stay strong on the market for many years to come.

I have no negative opinions about CREDD. Think it is a good thing, doubt that I will ever buy or sell one, but I see no problem with it. If some people that have trouble getting money for the subscription fee can get it this way, then I am all for it.

I still really look forward to the release, and hope that I might be choosen for beta, but since I am EU, that will not likely happen until a week or two before release.

[Deleted]

Wowza. Just catching up on all the delicious threads across the internet w/r/t payment model.

I can't think of any MMO in recent years with this strong a vocal souring.

its been pretty much what i expected.. even this small poll is interesting as its almost stayed roughly the same percentage wise from 450 votes.

http://strawpoll.me/346371

free to play - people would have complained

buy to play - people would have complained

subscription - people would have complained

freemium - people would have complained

The payment announcement lost potential players but it also gained some.. there is definetly a big market for subscription out there but imo there hasnt been anything worth paying for in a long long time.

- - - Updated - - -

People judge the game before they hit end game and end game should reflect some what of the leveling process.

If they really want to focus on elder game they would just scratch leveling all together and lean more sandbox with no levels/gear treadmill for initial raids.

no its beta.. beta testers should be making the game better. Clear examples is how carbine is re-tweaking its group exp, tagging system.

total nonsense about scratching leveling as the whole process is about making you understand core mechanics and improving your group and solo play. Why get rid of that.. seriously? why?

[syar]

And they have to do a good job redoing their leveling zones in order for enough people to reach their elder games.

I'm more concerned about combat and animations. If those feel good and the xp gain is streamlined then questing does not have to be so freaking awesome. I don't have any statistics to back this up ,but it always seemed to me that "leveling is boring" complaints are always there , in every MMO. WoW has very good quests and most of the people don't bother to read it , but if you give them dynamic events they will complain that its just wandering around cluelessly and they need goals. ( an argument I've seen from people hating on GW2)

[papajohn4]

Why are people waiting for the next one? There are a few reasons.

MMOs don't have unlimited content. Even the subscription based ones that artificially extend the content with grind to keep you paying are eventually burned through.

People like variety. Games may add more zones, abilities, etc, over the years, but they're still pretty much the same game they always were with a few extras tacked on now and then. It gets boring after a while.

Innovation. People want to see what new ideas will be brought to the table by new games, and there are some big changes being made currently to try and win the attention of gamers.


Also, if the people you are referring to in a derogatory manner are MMO Tourists, then surely you must be one of the MMO Locals. Looking down your noses at the temporary visitors without whom your game would be struggling, laughing at their attempts to learn the local customs and fit in, treating them with disdain because they wont settle down, not knowing they have roots and friends elsewhere, all the while secretly jealous of their lifestyle full of new experiences and wonder, while you go about your humdrum daily routine. Stuck in a rut. Too scared to take a risk. No way out...

thats why they have monthly sub option, for people that like variety...I don't think that you can end all the content of an MMO and get bored within a month. I also like variety, I have played all MMO games that came out but I stick to subscription games. I have pre-order Final Fantasy and I will play it and pay it until I get bored or until I want to play something else for a while.

But I don't understand why should I demand to play the games for free...Some people worked for years and spent millions to make a game. It is their right to sell it how much they want. They will go f2p only as a last resort and hope that 5% wealthy people will pay the cost for the 95% free people. You play free because someone else pay for you not because the company give it to you for free..

As for your last paragraph I will not comment at all because nothing of it is true or need an answer about.

[Deleted]

I was very happy to read about the Wildstar business model.
I like the P2P model, since I THINK it bring better quality and keep away a lot of unwanted people.

Um, have you ever played a little game called WoW perhaps? It has the worst online community of any game I've ever played.

[Arlee]

Well, I may have to avoid all Wildstar communities like the plague until the commotion dies down and returns to where it was before.

As for me, I'm glad it's subscription-only. I want to be able to play one low flat rate every month and have access to everything that they develop, regardless of whether or not I partake to the fullest. "Optional subscriptions" like what RIFT and TERA does is terrible in this matter, because even though I'm paying for a subscription, I don't suddenly get the ability to buy all the shop items with in-game gold. Instead, I'm now paying a subscription and have to pay more if I want what's on the shop.

I feel like it's worth pointing out (again) that Carbine hasn't ruled out having a cash shop. It is something they are discussing and considering. So it is quite possible you'll find yourself paying a sub and needing to pay extra to access all the content they make for the shop, just like Rift.

[syar]

Um, have you ever played a little game called WoW perhaps? It has the worst online community of any game I've ever played.

In vanilla/BC/Wotlk I was pretty satisfied with the community. ( of course idiots are always there ) The real downturn is a recent issue , at least for me it is.

[EnclosedOne]

so whats to stop the handful of skilled ah players from taking over the server ah and forcing the prices of everything to be skyhigh constantly? Currently I see nothing in place to stop this and that is the problem.

credd should have a flat gold rate so that no matter who or what is trying to monopolize the ah the normal players will still be able to buy it with in game gold without having to put in an insane amount of time. This also ensure that whoever is selling the cred will always get their monies worth.

[paralleluniverse]

The reason why I quit WoW is because Blizzard decided to allow people to buy gold with real money via the guardian cub. Now Wildstar will let people buy gold with real money via subscription credits. So I will never buy or play this game. If you thought it could get worse than microtransactions, it has.

Of course, this completely unfair system, that undeservedly rewards rich people, is not new. Allowing people to effectively buy gold for real money is in GW2. It's even in WoW. It's the hallmark of Diablo 3 via the RMAH. Turning the game into a unscrupulous profiteering opportunity instead of an actual game. Letting rich people get as much gold as they are willing to spend.

As for the people who feel they've been duped by Wildstar, well, there has been an endless of stream of fanboys defending these practices, at every incremental step or giant leap. Whether it was the RMAH in Diablo 3, the Guardian Cub in WoW, the card buying model in Hearthstone, or the gold buying in GW2. I have no sympathy for these people, it was clear that there was nowhere for the game market to go, except exponentially more greedy, more unfair, and more inequality. So suck it.

And finally to the people, who will inevitably defend this, exclaim it to be a great move, I hope you pour all your money into the game. The more the merrier. It's good to know that you're throwing your money into a game that will flop. As for the people on the other side of the equation, making money off people throwing their money into this black hole, good for you. There's nothing wrong with that, given the shambles this game will be in. Like Diablo 3, there is simply no purpose to the "game" other than to make as much real money off of it as possible. None at all.

[Vexies]

What I find most interesting is that NO game that has come out sub based has remained that way. NONE - yet here are all these supposed fans of sub based games, how its supposed to be able to provide so much content, be so much better and provide so much more reliable content for your money with out taking advantage of the customer right?...

So why are you not playing them. If you supported this model as these supposed fans want to why does only one remain?

Those of you who are fans of a sub based model are fans of paying 15 bucks a month for the right to play a game you payed 60 bucks for in most cases.. the right to play the game you ALREADY PAID FOR right?

Your ok with cash shops so you can pay again after paying for the right to see content that you have to pay again for it through cash shops yes?

They have sold you on a business model that simply does not deliver beyond what ANY other model does for any less at all.. yet people are delusional enough to believe it by calling those who actually want value for there money and actually play games that they paid for (and not having to pay again and again to play ) free loaders lol really?

There are a plethera of B2P games and F2P games that deliver solid content and for the average gamer cost FAR less for what you get out of it. If you wonder why we complain about it, its simply that many like myself are just fans of MMO's can see beyond the propaganda sub fee smoke and see that there are options out there. We want new MMO's to succeed and see the impossibly high standards that spoiled gamers place on any game that comes out, more so when a sub fee is placed on it. So why wouldnt we be upset with them making this mistake with the payment model? You will most likely just go back to your fav sub game ( there can be only one right?) the rest of us will be left with yet another could of been game, scratching our heads and why they made such a bone headed mistake.

[Holtzmann]

The reason why I quit WoW is because Blizzard decided to allow people to buy gold with real money via the guardian cub. Now Wildstar will let people buy gold with real money via subscription credits. So I will never buy or play this game. If you thought it could get worse than microtransactions, it has.

Of course, this completely unfair system, that undeservedly rewards rich people, is not new. Allowing people to effectively buy gold for real money is in GW2. It's even in WoW. It's the hallmark of Diablo 3 via the RMAH. Turning the game into a unscrupulous profiteering opportunity instead of an actual game. Letting rich people get as much gold as they are willing to spend.

As for the people who feel they've been duped by Wildstar, well, there has been an endless of stream of fanboys defending these practices, at every incremental step or giant leap. Whether it was the RMAH in Diablo 3, the Guardian Cub in WoW, the card buying model in Hearthstone, or the gold buying in GW2. I have no sympathy for these people, it was clear that there was nowhere for the game market to go, except exponentially more greedy, more unfair, and more inequality. So suck it.

And finally to the people, who will inevitably defend this, exclaim it to be a great move, I hope you pour all your money into the game. The more the merrier. It's good to know that you're throwing your money into a game that will flop. As for the people on the other side of the equation, making money off people throwing their money into this black hole, good for you. There's nothing wrong with that, given the shambles this game will be in. Like Diablo 3, there is simply no purpose to the "game" other than to make as much real money off of it as possible. None at all.

And this is something that utterly baffles me about the video gaming community: people who take umbrage on others' spending habits, then proceed to dish out insults without provocation.

I'm sorry, dude: all commercial operations (computer games included) are meant to make as much money as possible. For that, they'll sell whatever people will buy, because there's demand. Customers/players will buy whatever they feel will improve their gameplay experience. And guess what? The purpose of games is to let people have fun. Games fail not because they have real-money transactions (otherwise no game before the 2000s would have flopped), but because they fail to be fun or engaging to enough people. If for you the real-money transactions are game breakers, that's fair. Don't buy the game, enjoy the rest of your life. But getting all riled up and ranting about it while insulting the game company, the game, and the people who don't share your opinions? That's just plain dumb.

Out of curiosity: are you by any chance one of those guys who complains to the folks at the ice cream shop that the new optional hot chocolate fudge topping should be absolutely free because you're already paying for the ice cream? Do you harass people who do pay extra for the hot chocolate fudge? That's more or less what you're doing here.

People should be able to spend their money in whatever what they please. Are they frequently daft and make bad choices? Why certainly. The amount of borderline-useless junk that shopping channels sell is nothing short of astounding. But to feel insulted that a company is trying to make money in whatever way they can, and that customers are buying what they think they want, indicates a lack of grasp of basic market mechanics.

[Vexies]

understand MMO's and aren't just in it for the cash cow. The fact that they have vanilla wow devs sold me.

Really? so the possibility of a sub fee AND a cash shop doesn't concern you? I believed like you did and part of me still see's that the actual people developing the game WANT to make that game but something in their recent change in this announcement smacks of guy who they owe money to yanking the chain. I like the game. What ive experienced of it made me really like it. It has issues though but it has time. They are kitchen sinking it with options and content so they are trying but this model smacks of cash grab to me and I just don't believe the game will have a wide enough appeal to make a sub fee viable. If its not viable they are guilty of one of two things. One buying their own hype and believing their game will be so awesome it pulls in lots of steady customers ( good but optimistic ) or two need cash and need it now and are being forced into this model.

I want the game to succeed. I think it can be a great MMO if they fix what needs fixed and include what they are aiming for (which will be extremely ambitious) I just doubt whether any game can pull sub numbers enough to make a sub fee work anymore and deliver enough value for that money commitment. Hopefully for them Im wrong,

[Keren]

-non-segregated world: everyone has access to all the same content and plays in the same world. No divided community and differing content access based on payment choice.

they espacially stated that they can phase zone and contents. nobody knows if there will be some daly hub you have to buy through cash shop

-No gimmicky tactics to drive people into a cash shop

they will have a cash shop, I would bet on that

-Gold farming potential is reduced

Its not reduced, its even higher, because those can sustain themselfs thorugh playing and selling gold below officially server price through CREDD.

-Biggest reason that no one discusses, which is the strong suit of EvE: WS will be an economy driven game, gold will be an extremely valuable resource and the world will be populated even at level cap with people out there hunting for gold through various means. This to me is the single biggest combatant to the "sit in city and que" syndrome that is common in too many MMOs now.

W* can only be econemy driven if there is no endgame loot. All things in EVE are craftable and you are able to loose it. If you want the hardcore raider community you have to give them gear for defeating bosses - not crafting. I cant think of any economy system in W* that will involve the players enough to make CREDD an intelligent option. EVE has huge crafting processes that are simple not transportable into a game like W*.
Gold may be a rare ressource because they sated severly times how they want to refine goldsinks. But I can'T imagine W* will be an ecenomy-driven game with high end raiding community