1. #2061
    I think patch notes are super interesting. With careful reading you can understand how the game is designed.

    Playing the game is not too important if you have the mechanical information. Play is irreverent. Not that these patch notes give enough of that kind of information, mind you. However, they do reveal some interesting design ideas and potential gameplay systems.

  2. #2062
    Immortal SirRobin's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Counciltucky
    Posts
    7,145
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    In the very statement you posted they say they want to remove them from beta. I'm sure they need to identify the source first which they will need to handle through legal channels in order to prosecute via the NDA. I'm sure whatever site it originated on may be able to help with that. If it was reddit, I'm sure they will provide an IP to help narrow their search down for beta participants.
    The leak site, this time, is betacake. Of course there are a couple of leaker sites out there. Or at least there used to be. Been a while since I cared enough to follow them. Betacake has been a leaker for a while and I was actually surprised to see it linked to in reddit. Thought it had folded along with so many other sites in the aftermath of TOR's collapse. As far as I can recall, I don't think betacake has ever given up a source and it was a major leak site during TOR. Memory may be a little fuzzy but even EA tried to kill it. Made it move once or twice but even EA couldn't keep it down.

    Not condoning the behavior, just being realistic. If EA couldn't even keep the site down then I doubt Carbine or NCSoft have much of a chance. Carbine's best chance is for the leaker to screw up and give themselves away in a pic or vid.
    Sir Robin, the Not-Quite-So-Brave-As-Sir-Lancelot.
    Who had nearly fought the Dragon of Angnor.
    Who had almost stood up to the vicious Chicken of Bristol.
    And who had personally wet himself, at the Battle of Badon Hill.

  3. #2063
    A lot of warrior abilities seem well worn in the genre. Looks like some Warcraft-like copyage in things like Revenge, Shockwave, Charge, Thunderclap, Weapon Throw, etc.

  4. #2064
    Immortal SirRobin's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Counciltucky
    Posts
    7,145
    Devs are running a Q&A on the patch notes.

    http://wildstar-central.com/index.ph...a-thread.2474/

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy Gaffney
    Hi, as many of you know, we had a leak of our beta patch notes a few days ago and some feedback on how forum feedback, etc. Beta's going well, so that doesn't particularly suck for us, honestly.

    But it doesn't seem fair to the sites (like Wildstar Central) that are being good guys and keeping discussions on NDA-breaking material off their forums to lose traffic to sites that aren't as ethical.
    So what we'll do in general is to focus our devs to post preferentially on the sites that help enforce our NDA.
    So, here's our patch notes released officially without NDA. We won't always respond to leaks in this fashion. In fact, we don't like leaks and will be using our particular set of skills to make life a nightmare for leakers like that.

    Having said all that, in return for having enforced the NDA here, enjoy and I'll make an effort to drop by this thread over the next few days and respond to questions coming from the notes (not everything, we gotta keep some stuff secret )

    http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/ne...atch_notes.php

    (folks from other forums sites who see this and are enforcing the NDA, let me or our community know (well our community guys probably already know) and I'll make an effort to add you to the list of places we drop by and give info to/give some exclusives out in the future. And thanks, by the way.)


    ---------- Post added 2013-04-15 at 11:37 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    A lot of warrior abilities seem well worn in the genre. Looks like some Warcraft-like copyage in things like Revenge, Shockwave, Charge, Thunderclap, Weapon Throw, etc.
    I noticed that too. Was nice to see Arlee's Circles brought up too. Now following the WoW stamp for warriors might be a good thing or bad thing. Still way to early I think, and too many unknowns, for me to call it.
    Sir Robin, the Not-Quite-So-Brave-As-Sir-Lancelot.
    Who had nearly fought the Dragon of Angnor.
    Who had almost stood up to the vicious Chicken of Bristol.
    And who had personally wet himself, at the Battle of Badon Hill.

  5. #2065
    I noticed that too. Was nice to see Arlee's Circles brought up too. Now following the WoW stamp for warriors might be a good thing or bad thing. Still way to early I think, and too many unknowns, for me to call it.
    Back when I played WoW [not too into that game], warriors were pretty alright. Simple, but not... erm, un-enjoyable.

    I sorta didn't like SWTOR's variant of Prot/Fury Warrior in Space. Though I have no real objection to the contextualizing that archetypal warrior gameplay in a sci-fi setting per se.

    Can't say I don't enjoy a good Heroic Leap dunking. Simple pleasures and all that.

  6. #2066
    Scarab Lord Loaf Lord's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Rue d'Auseil
    Posts
    4,565
    Can only swing a sword so many ways. :P They have an arm cannon too I believe, so that could be interesting. I also keep seeing them pull out a spinning, holographic saw blade from their wrist. And yeah, there's something cathartic about leaping and charging around the battlefield with reckless abandon. The inner beast must feed.
    Last edited by Loaf Lord; 2013-04-16 at 05:07 AM.

  7. #2067
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    I might not go spellslinger, In no way do I want a wow mage class that just does it threw his gun.
    actually that sounds that something I would enjoy

  8. #2068
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    I think patch notes are super interesting. With careful reading you can understand how the game is designed.

    Playing the game is not too important if you have the mechanical information. Play is irreverent. Not that these patch notes give enough of that kind of information, mind you. However, they do reveal some interesting design ideas and potential gameplay systems.
    And this is what seperates the smart players from the casuals. I want to play a game not learn how its designed.

  9. #2069
    The Unstoppable Force Puupi's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    23,390
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    And this is what seperates the smart players from the casuals. I want to play a game not learn how its designed.
    Beta is not a free demo. Betas are especially meant for those so-called "smart" players who care about the design. They test stuff properly and give reasonable feedback due to understanding the design. The casual players who just want to play should just wait for the finished game to launch and enjoy it then.
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i've said i'd like to have one of those bad dragon dildos shaped like a horse, because the shape is nicer than human.
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i was talking about horse cock again, told him to look at your sig.

  10. #2070
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    A lot of warrior abilities seem well worn in the genre. Looks like some Warcraft-like copyage in things like Revenge, Shockwave, Charge, Thunderclap, Weapon Throw, etc.
    exactly what i want my warrior to be like.. happy at this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Murphlord View Post
    They have an arm cannon too I believe
    so warriors could end up like guts from beserk? yes please!
    Last edited by mmoccc0b2dd691; 2013-04-16 at 11:59 AM.

  11. #2071
    Herald of the Titans Nirawen's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Wales
    Posts
    2,852
    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    Beta is not a free demo. Betas are especially meant for those so-called "smart" players who care about the design. They test stuff properly and give reasonable feedback due to understanding the design. The casual players who just want to play should just wait for the finished game to launch and enjoy it then.
    This is why I always prefer to see beta forms with a 'Why do you want to test our game' field that requires actually writing something. You can ignore it when you get to load tests etc but it should definitely be used for actual testing and QA. A lot of studios recently seem to have forgotten how beneficial it is to manage who you let in even on a small scale, sure it takes resources but well worth it in the long run. Not a comment on Carbine Studios but just in general.

  12. #2072
    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    Beta is not a free demo. Betas are especially meant for those so-called "smart" players who care about the design. They test stuff properly and give reasonable feedback due to understanding the design. The casual players who just want to play should just wait for the finished game to launch and enjoy it then.
    Giving feed back on a game your playing is fine. However those patch notes they released to the public who cant play their game right now does nothing. We cant give feedback because we dont have access to the beta. Those notes are useless to us. Information on how the game plays and feels is more important to someone who cant play the game then patch notes.

  13. #2073
    Quote Originally Posted by muchtoohigh View Post
    Wildstar does not have normal and heroic mode raids, check again.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-14 at 07:21 PM ----------



    The problem with your little chart is that in month 4 of old-school wow, you would get a new raid not keep on the same one. For example, they released Black Temple before anyone had even completed Tempest Keep in BC. There was not a 3 month wait as you claim. Those ridiculous gaps in content only came after Blizz went to ez-mode raiding and people facerolled it in a couple weeks and Blizz was left with their pants down and no time to get the next tier ready.
    Your argument makes zero sense. The amount of raid content that Blizzard churns out depends on staffing and human resources. The fact that BT came out before TK was a combination of 2 flukes that will never again be repeated: (1) Vanilla was out for FOUR years allowing Blizzard to build up a large backlog of TBC content, (2) TBC was released with not 1 but 2 raid tiers (3 if you count Hyjal), because of the massive backlog they had built up over the 4 years of Classic WoW. Expansions now come out every 2 years, so this will never happen again, not because of the raid model they've chosen, but because of the numbers of humans they've hired.

    Of course, none of this is relevant. It's a diversion from the fact that regardless of the amount of difficulty levels there are you raid the same tier until the next tier comes out. Thus, there is no feeling of having to do it all over again. You always do it all over again, every week, additional difficulty doesn't change the fact that guilds raid each week. The amount of times you do the boss is the same if they had 1 difficulty or 2. The number of times you do it is the number of weeks to the next tier.

    It seems that Wildstar has Heroic mode dungeons, although not for raids. But this is a missed opportunity to make the game harder and more flexible, without changing the number of times you kill bosses (which is determined by the number of weeks to the next tier). Virtually every game has multiple difficulties. So why is it so controversial in MMOs? Well, actually it's not, WoW players don't complain about it.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-16 at 01:14 PM ----------

    I also hear that Wildstar will had leaderboards for raids. So how are they going to work for 20 man raids?

    Will 40 man raiders faceroll them in their 40 man gear, blowing 20 man guilds out of the water? Or will there simply not be any 20 man guilds? After all, why go to all the effort to make and recruit and maintain a 20 man guild in the first place, when you're going to be blocked from a large part of the raid content?
    Last edited by paralleluniverse; 2013-04-16 at 01:32 PM.

  14. #2074
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    Giving feed back on a game your playing is fine. However those patch notes they released to the public who cant play their game right now does nothing. We cant give feedback because we dont have access to the beta. Those notes are useless to us. Information on how the game plays and feels is more important to someone who cant play the game then patch notes.
    You sound like someone who not only has never played a beta but never seen a game being developed outside of closed alpha.

    Patch notes contain a lot more information than just the content and design of a game. They reveal more detailed development schedule, developer priorities, depth of interaction with beta testers, any sudden changes in design direction, sometimes infrastructure issues, stability of design aspects that may interest players preparing for the game and modding community (if game supports it), inform the broader platform players and critic community and form a basis for Q&A of developers, etc.

  15. #2075
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Exclusion as a point of design was my talking point. Not how raids come to that exclusivity. Which can include difficulty, yes. Or maybe not!

    Though that still is of no bearing to my original post.

    To wit~
    Perhaps the idea of having 10 and 20 man only guilds for raiding is lowly. Perhaps there should simply be, raiding guilds. Not guilds that happen to raid when the reset happens by course.

    Rift has separate and unique 10 and 20 man raids. With each instance being a discrete zone. Some have hard modes as well, yes.

    Accessible raiding is counter to the idea of raiding in itself as a point of design. The entire premise is built on exclusion.




    Yes, it is okay. And there have been raids like that in the past! Like 250 man raids which required hundreds of repeat kills. And even some raids which required nearly an entire server population over 500 persons. Where the challenge itself was mostly the logistics.

    It is not important how difficult a raid environment is [which you insisted on interjecting in your reply to me], but that raiding itself as a point of design is counter to accessibility.

    The fact one can't raid for whatever reason from attunement, logistics, one time events, faction control or difficulty is the entire point of a raid by design. That is the impetuses to raising a raid; to overcome an otherwise impractical task. A raiding guild, not 10 or 20 people who show up on Tuesdays.

    There is no "trivializing" 20 and 40 man content here. That is not even being discussed by me. So if you want to continue with such an imaginary argument in mind that is your own business.
    I've think you've gone off the deep end:
    It is not important how difficult a raid environment is [which you insisted on interjecting in your reply to me], but that raiding itself as a point of design is counter to accessibility.
    It doesn't matter how hard the raid is?

    Well, yes it does. If the raid is made inaccessible and exclusive by artificial gimmicks like number of players and isn't actually hard then it is not fun. And people won't enjoy them. They will not be impressed by rankings and world firsts. And they will find their challenge in better and harder PvE games... like WoW.

    People don't watch the Olympics because the logistics of organizing a Olympics team is hard, they watch because winning is actually hard.

    This is obvious. That this even needs to be said is absurd.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-16 at 01:28 PM ----------

    Leaked patch notes:
    Group Finder has been added! You can use the Group Finder to flag yourself for PvP, as well as to queue for Dungeons, PvP, and Adventures. In this phase of Beta, you can queue for the following content (at the appropriate levels):
    Dungeon: Stormtalon (Level 17-22)
    PvP: 3v3 Arenas (Level 22)

    Source: http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/ne...atch_notes.php
    WoW haters must be fuming.
    Last edited by paralleluniverse; 2013-04-16 at 01:36 PM.

  16. #2076
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by paralleluniverse View Post
    Your argument makes zero sense. The amount of raid content that Blizzard churns out depends on staffing and human resources. The fact that BT came out before TK was a combination of 2 flukes that will never again be repeated: (1) Vanilla was out for FOUR years allowing Blizzard to build up a large backlog of TBC content, (2) TBC was released with not 1 but 2 raid tiers (3 if you count Hyjal), because of the massive backlog they had built up over the 4 years of Classic WoW. Expansions now come out every 2 years, so this will never happen again, not because of the raid model they've chosen, but because of the numbers of humans they've hired.
    what are you talking about vanilla WoW was released late 04 / early 05.. the burning crusade was released jan 07. Thats just over 2 years.. i have no idea where youre getting 4 years from. The time for an expansion to arrive has ALWAYS been roughly 2 years.

    Quote Originally Posted by paralleluniverse View Post
    It seems that Wildstar has Heroic mode dungeons, although not for raids. But this is a missed opportunity to make the game harder and more flexible, without changing the number of times you kill bosses (which is determined by the number of weeks to the next tier). Virtually every game has multiple difficulties. So why is it so controversial in MMOs? Well, actually it's not, WoW players don't complain about it.
    doing something different isnt a missed opportunity its an opportunity gained imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by paralleluniverse View Post
    I also hear that Wildstar will had leaderboards for raids. So how are they going to work for 20 man raids?

    Will 40 man raiders faceroll them in their 40 man gear, blowing 20 man guilds out of the water? Or will there simply not be any 20 man guilds? After all, why go to all the effort to make and recruit and maintain a 20 man guild in the first place, when you're going to be blocked from a large part of the raid content?
    maybe leaderboards take into account the quality of gear you use.. maybe 20 man raids offer the same gear as 40 man raids just at an "easier" difficulty.. we dont know yet but its a great idea regardless of how it turns out.

    Quote Originally Posted by paralleluniverse View Post
    WoW haters must be fuming.
    why would people be fuming lol ?

  17. #2077
    Stood in the Fire Loyrl's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    438
    ^ Not all "wow haters" hate the dungen finder if that is what you're getting at.

    Anyways I was thinking a TimeWarp would be pretty cool for raids. Would be limited to an hour each week where you could speed up time in the raid and practice on bosses at a faster rate, no trash just the bosses. Could speed up or slow down, skip phases and just practice. Would be pretty neat imo, I always hated those long easy phases where everyone knows what to do, and then BAM get rocked by the next phase so fast that you have to watch a video on what happened.
    GemStoneIII (Mud) (ongoing) > SubSpace/Continuum > EQ1-Kunark-PoP > aRO > FFXI > WoW > Rift > WoW > FFXIV > SWToR > Tera > GW2 > Wushu > ESO > W* > EQ1p99 > WoW > ???
    FFXIVARR Profile
    D3 Profile

  18. #2078
    Quote Originally Posted by Insanoflex View Post
    what are you talking about vanilla WoW was released late 04 / early 05.. the burning crusade was released jan 07. Thats just over 2 years.. i have no idea where youre getting 4 years from. The time for an expansion to arrive has ALWAYS been roughly 2 years.



    doing something different isnt a missed opportunity its an opportunity gained imo.



    maybe leaderboards take into account the quality of gear you use.. maybe 20 man raids offer the same gear as 40 man raids just at an "easier" difficulty.. we dont know yet but its a great idea regardless of how it turns out.



    why would people be fuming lol ?
    Nov 04 to Jan 07. Hmm, yes. It seems my counting was wrong. But the point remains that Classic to TBC was the longest period without an expansion, and they had made enough content to release with 2 and a half raid tiers.

    LFG destroyed WoW. Haven't you heard?
    Last edited by paralleluniverse; 2013-04-16 at 02:06 PM.

  19. #2079
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    Giving feed back on a game your playing is fine. However those patch notes they released to the public who cant play their game right now does nothing. We cant give feedback because we dont have access to the beta. Those notes are useless to us. Information on how the game plays and feels is more important to someone who cant play the game then patch notes.
    I definitely understand this point of view. For many people patch notes for something you have never played before can be difficult to grasb what is important in the patch notes when you have no real context. Things like "x ability's damage has been reduced by 5%" mean nothing unless you know how exactly that ability works and what the damage was like prior to the change.

    Basically what they did was they officially leaked what was unofficially leaked earlier. Since it was patch notes that were I would say it's unlikely that the last two races are live on the beta yet and neither are the last two classes. I mean if someone is going to leak something and they had the option of those things and patchnotes... it seems like a silly choice to leak patch notes

  20. #2080
    Any confirmation if LFG will be cross-server or sever-specific(or indeed how this works across the 'Demon' system them detailed previously)? Would be interesting to know.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-16 at 03:02 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by paralleluniverse View Post
    Nov 04 to Jan 07. If you count in continuous time, that's 3 years and 3 months.
    Eh? Isn't that 2 years and 3 months? Am I losing my mind?
    Last edited by Dagzter; 2013-04-16 at 02:00 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •