[Megathread] Wildstar - Now F2P

[Kelimbror]

Maybe. Is it intentional (planned from the start)? Are they planning on over pricing it at first? Are they using hype in order to misrepresent their product? Are they making the initial sale with the promise of regular updates to the product in return for a monthly fee? What if they don't plan on following through with that promise?

Also: Have there been numerous examples of similar programs launching with a cost, but collapsing and then reviving when made free with extras?

The more games that do this, the more I'm going to believe they are in it to get 'dat paper from their fans, only to turn around and hand out the same thing for free a year later.

Though there's something I've just realized. This is NCSoft. They are hot on the heels of GW2 knocking it out of the park for them. Do you think Wildstar is being forced as a subscription to prevent it from slowing the progress GW2 has going for it? Honest question. I'm curious what people think. Otherwise I would imagine NCSoft would be pushing for the exact same scenario as GW2 to make just as much money.

[Holtzmann]

Well, so much for that thought exercise. :P

Anyway, what are those MMORPGs that have been deliberately released as P2P and then bait-and-switched into F2P as a blatant cash-grab? Without serious technical/balance/content flaws that resulted in its large initial subscription base quickly dwindling, that is.

Though there's something I've just realized. This is NCSoft. They are hot on the heels of GW2 knocking it out of the park for them. Do you think Wildstar is being forced as a subscription to prevent it from slowing the progress GW2 has going for it? Honest question. I'm curious what people think. Otherwise I would imagine NCSoft would be pushing for the exact same scenario as GW2 to make just as much money.

No idea. I have a feeling NCSoft wanted Wildstar to have the same business model as GW2 but the developers asked for a chance to go P2P since many of them came from World of Warcraft and believed in that method enough to try their luck with it. Or maybe they just disliked the thought of a cash store and are saying the option is open just to be safe.

[Edge-]

Though there's something I've just realized. This is NCSoft. They are hot on the heels of GW2 knocking it out of the park for them. Do you think Wildstar is being forced as a subscription to prevent it from slowing the progress GW2 has going for it? Honest question. I'm curious what people think. Otherwise I would imagine NCSoft would be pushing for the exact same scenario as GW2 to make just as much money.

1. I can pretty confidently say that NCsoft isn't too involved with their US studios in terms of mandating things. They let them do their own thing for the most part, and while they're going to make sure the studio isn't blowing money or creating an unsustainable game, they don't dictate business models etc.

2. I'd be really surprised. That's be like, sabotaging their new game. Kinda a bad business move.

[Valeron]

Though there's something I've just realized. This is NCSoft. They are hot on the heels of GW2 knocking it out of the park for them. Do you think Wildstar is being forced as a subscription to prevent it from slowing the progress GW2 has going for it? Honest question. I'm curious what people think. Otherwise I would imagine NCSoft would be pushing for the exact same scenario as GW2 to make just as much money.

Seems a bit too tinfoil hat theory there. Do you think there is a lot of crossover between the two games? I think the two games are made for different demographics.

[RoninaThorstone]

Well, so much for that thought exercise. :P

Anyway, what are those MMORPGs that have been deliberately released as P2P and then bait-and-switched into F2P as a blatant cash-grab? Without serious technical/balance/content flaws that resulted in its large initial subscription base quickly dwindling, that is.

Didn't you know? In an interview, one of the devs admitted that they had been thinking about switching to F2P before swtor even launched.

[Deleted]

Though there's something I've just realized. This is NCSoft. They are hot on the heels of GW2 knocking it out of the park for them. Do you think Wildstar is being forced as a subscription to prevent it from slowing the progress GW2 has going for it? Honest question. I'm curious what people think. Otherwise I would imagine NCSoft would be pushing for the exact same scenario as GW2 to make just as much money.

Im pretty sure GW2 and Wildstar will attract two different kind of players in the end(the major part of its playerbase), since they are not very alike, apart from the MMO stamp.

[Newbryn]

Also: Have there been numerous examples of similar programs launching with a cost, but collapsing and then reviving when made free with extras?

The more games that do this, the more I'm going to believe they are in it to get 'dat paper from their fans, only to turn around and hand out the same thing for free a year later.

Though there's something I've just realized. This is NCSoft. They are hot on the heels of GW2 knocking it out of the park for them. Do you think Wildstar is being forced as a subscription to prevent it from slowing the progress GW2 has going for it? Honest question. I'm curious what people think. Otherwise I would imagine NCSoft would be pushing for the exact same scenario as GW2 to make just as much money.

You bring up an interesting point, it made me think of blade and soul since we have little to no news on that game, makes me think wildstar is serving as a guinea pig to decide blade and soul's payment model.

[Skytotem]

Subs are better for people who can play all day or whenever they want.

F2P models with cosmetic items/enhancements in a cash shop are better for people who work and have less time to play but more disposable income to spend on individual little purchases.

[Razael]

Though there's something I've just realized. This is NCSoft. They are hot on the heels of GW2 knocking it out of the park for them. Do you think Wildstar is being forced as a subscription to prevent it from slowing the progress GW2 has going for it? Honest question. I'm curious what people think. Otherwise I would imagine NCSoft would be pushing for the exact same scenario as GW2 to make just as much money.

I think the games are quite diferent , don't think they atract the same crowd.

[Kelimbror]

I read everyone's posts. Here's my question to a recurring theme:

What makes people so confident that different game content styles mandate different payment models? GW2 puts out content more frequently than a subscription, so the argument that Wildstar has raiding and thereby more 'hardcore' players may be accurate, but to think that would mean more content is a fallacy.

But since so many people brought that same point up...what are you thinking when you say Wildstar will attract different players, thereby warranting a subscription? Again, content cannot be used as an argument b/c GW2 and arguably Rift which is now F2P both put out content on pace, if not better than any subscription has prior to WoW and MoP.

Edit: I realize many people think that the two playerbases won't cross, which was the main point, but I'm trying to focus on the payment model and not specifically the player base. So basically if it's a given the players will be different, why is this base somehow more acceptable as a subscription? And let's go ahead and throw it against other similarly structured games as well.

[nazrakin]

I don't see how anyone is surprised, no one actually makes big budget F2P MMORPGs. A lot of these f2p games are doing ok, far better than they did as p2p games but they still aren't making anywhere near as much as WoW. It makes perfect sense to save f2p as an audible if you can't build a successful p2p game, you pretty much have nothing to lose.

[Razael]

I'm not necessarily saying that there should be a subscription in this game, because its diferent than GW2, just that the games seem diferent in what they try to be, so after the MMO Hoppers leave, the core audience of the games, will be different enough that a game like GW2 won't feel a sting in their playerbase after a couple months.

[Golden]

Really, why does it matters, whats the sub model is? If the game is good, you will pay it no matter if P2P, B2P or F2P. If its not a good game, you won't play it. Thats it.

It matters to me because I've been burnt pretty badly by subscription models in the past. How so you say?

Well, one of the first subscription games I played was City of Heroes. It was pretty successful when it first came out. Then, months went by and all the "content updates" were on the lines of, "Added improved shading. Added better water graphics." After that, they decided to add villains to the game...which I didn't care about at all. But...I still had to pay my subscription for another 1.5 years in order to keep playing my hero.

Another example is when WoW spent 9 or so months adding Arena to the game - another feature I could care less about. But, in order to keep playing what I did like, I had to keep paying my subscription and essentially finance that feature.

In a subscription-based model, you have to keep paying the developers money in the good faith that they will eventually add features to the game that you do like and hope they are worth it. It's great for the developers, but terrible for the players, IMO.

[Deleted]

I read everyone's posts. Here's my question to a recurring theme:

What makes people so confident that different game content styles mandate different payment models? GW2 puts out content more frequently than a subscription, so the argument that Wildstar has raiding and thereby more 'hardcore' players may be accurate, but to think that would mean more content is a fallacy.

But since so many people brought that same point up...what are you thinking when you say Wildstar will attract different players, thereby warranting a subscription? Again, content cannot be used as an argument b/c GW2 and arguably Rift which is now F2P both put out content on pace, if not better than any subscription has prior to WoW and MoP.

Edit: I realize many people think that the two playerbases won't cross, which was the main point, but I'm trying to focus on the payment model and not specifically the player base. So basically if it's a given the players will be different, why is this base somehow more acceptable as a subscription? And let's go ahead and throw it against other similarly structured games as well.

I dont think anyone thinks that it mandates different payment models, thats a conclusion you came up with. You asked if they went with dfferent models to not compete with eachother, and most of us thinks that they attract a different breed of players.

And you didnt answer my question how what kind of content GW2 puts out. I might be wrong now, but i read its mainly events and such? Compared to holiday stuff in wow for example? Correct me if im wrong.

[RoninaThorstone]

And you didnt answer my question how what kind of content GW2 puts out. I might be wrong now, but i read its mainly events and such? Compared to holiday stuff in wow for example? Correct me if im wrong.

It's more like chapters in a book. There isn't really anything in WoW I would compare it too.

[Holtzmann]

Didn't you know? In an interview, one of the devs admitted that they had been thinking about switching to F2P before swtor even launched.

Nope, wasn't aware of that.

Was it a "we thought about it early on but decided to go with P2P instead", a "we thought about it and had it already scheduled" or a "F2P...? Oh, yes! We were totally ready for it! It was part of our plans, really! This is not just damage control so we don't look like a bunch of incompetent developers!" sort of situation, though?

[Deleted]

It's more like chapters in a book. There isn't really anything in WoW I would compare it too.

So it adds to the personal story of your characters pretty much?

[RoninaThorstone]

Nope, wasn't aware of that.

Was it a "we thought about it early on but decided to go with P2P instead", a "we thought about it and had it already scheduled" or a "F2P...? Oh, yes! We were totally ready for it! It was part of our plans, really! This is not just damage control so we don't look like a bunch of incompetent developers!" sort of situation, though?

It was sort of a "this was plan B".

[Holtzmann]

It was sort of a "this was plan B".

That doesn't sound too much like a cashgrab to me. Every business needs a contingency plan that doesn't just entail closing down shop.

[RoninaThorstone]

So it adds to the personal story of your characters pretty much?

Kind of. Just look up like, living story for GW2. It's sort of like a global story that changes the world chapter by chapter, so the GW2 you first started playing is slowly overwritten as the plot plays out.