[Megathread] Wildstar - Now F2P

[Sharuko]

Is there a critical difference between the two in terms of how they play out? Both require thought and planning in terms of how your characters are controlled and a deep understanding of that movement.

We are talking about movement and controls. It is pretty much not even comparable.

[Edge-]

We are talking about movement and controls. It is pretty much not even comparable.

We are talking about how a player reacts to a certain type of movement in a game; instant vs. delayed. While both types are absolutely different, there is no reason why one is capable of being used in competitive play while they other isn't.

[Zephyr Storm]

Apples and oranges, why are we comparing a click to move game against a WASD game? Especially when it comes to movement.

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No actually it is slower. In most MMOs or even FPS games or literally any game you can move just as fast strafing as you could while moving forward. In GW2, while strafing you are moving just as slow as you are while backpeddling.

I am not hardcore anything, but that made the game unplayable. It is that big of a deal.

I want to see you stand up, and strafe sideways at the same speed that you do while running straight forward.........can't do it? My oh my, what a surprise!

Yes I get that it's a video game....but seriously people. Learn how to play the game or quit. Obviously, you chose the quit option.

And no, it does not make games unplayable. Annoying for maybe a small niche audience, but definitely NOT unplayable. That's just you exaggerating to an extreme degree. All the GOOD players adapt to the mechanics. *cough*

[Sharuko]

I want to see you stand up, and strafe sideways at the same speed that you do while running straight forward.........can't do it? My oh my, what a surprise!

Yes I get that it's a video game....but seriously people. Learn how to play the game or quit. Obviously, you chose the quit option.

Yeah when I start shooting fireballs out of my hands, I will try that. Again, when people are used to certain controls and movement for years across pretty much every game that uses WASD you should try and stick to it or make it better. Not make it worst.

There is nothing "learn to play" about it. It was probably enacted because the AI in GW2 is pretty stupid and they didn't want you to circle strafe kite every mob in the game, even though you can do it now even with movement restrictions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FR8gDg0wuDs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqN7F0Z95GY

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And no, it does not make games unplayable. Annoying for maybe a small niche audience, but definitely NOT unplayable. That's just you exaggerating to an extreme degree. All the GOOD players adapt to the mechanics. *cough*

Good players don't play games with bad mechanics, they move on to other games. It is not exaggerating, movement and controls for a game like an MMO is extremely important, probably one of the most important aspects. (Top 3 imo)

[Zephyr Storm]

Good players don't play games with bad mechanics, they move on to other games. It is not exaggerating, movement and controls for a game like an MMO is extremely important, probably one of the most important aspects. (Top 3 imo)

I didn't say movement wasn't important. It most definitely is. I'm just saying I think you are making it sound way worse than it actually was/is. Your personal opinion maybe, but exaggerated greatly.

[Sharuko]

I didn't say movement wasn't important. It most definitely is. I'm just saying I think you are making it sound way worse than it actually was/is. Your personal opinion maybe, but exaggerated greatly.

This discussion is not about opinion. You said it "seems slower but it is not", but it actually is slower. Strafing makes you run about half as slow as moving forward. When in most games, you move at 100%. So it isn't "seems slower" it is "slower".

Your opinion on this is that it is not a big deal. My opinion is that it is game breaking. That I am not going to argue about.

[Maconi]

I don't like the movement in Wildstar and I'm not a PvPer, so there's that?

There's also a huge lack of impact in combat that just makes the game feel lacking/numb (I'm sure that's been said a dozen times already). I would say it seems "unfinished" but then people would throw the beta word around as if that's something that will change by launch (it's much more than just sound effects, it's the entire design).

I was originally pretty hyped for Wildstar since GW2 was a let-down (for me and everyone I know at least). However I'm not so sure anymore. ESO isn't even worth mentioning. Even Black Desert doesn't look that great now (beta vids on Steparu's channel don't seem to live up to the hype, it at least looks like it has potential though). *sigh*

[Deleted]

Not to mention that someone saying they don't like F2P MMOs means they accept payment models as categories and thus logically create the stipulation you criticized on their own accord. There's nothing inherently different in F2P MMOs other than the payment model, which serves to ironically highlight the exact point that there is no such thing as a genre of F2P MMOs, thereby falling under this criticism again. In short, it's silly to say something like 'I don't like F2P MMOs' or 'F2P MMOs aren't good', etc.

How? F2P games mostly have a horrible cash shop, from useless to pay to win. Though the common trait in F2P games is lack of updates and content. They just throw pure grind at you in the actual content updates you do get, which are bare minimum. F2P MMOS are different to P2P MMOs, hell even B2P MMOs are different to P2P MMOs. You get what you pay for, is the saying.

In other news, I have a group of friends who are all in the beta and they are enjoying their experience, we usually all get into beta but this time i wasn't able to get a key for this game

The end of the day, opinions are like assholes, everyone has one especially Kelimbror!, however since all you can say is "I can't explain why", then perhaps it's best you say nothing at all.

[Sharuko]

F2P MMOS are different to P2P MMOs,

Off course they are, they are designed completely differently. Not to mention, the budgets of F2P MMOs will be significantly smaller. We are lucky right now because most of these F2P games were designed to be subscription. To say the only difference is payment model is pretty naive.

[avarcis]

Oh ok...so you actually were making up bullshit that I said anything about GW2 movement, then have moved the goal posts to rant off about me when a moderator has already warned you and others from doing so. In other words, same useless bullshit posting. Ok. When the NDA is lifted I'll show you tons of pages of other players complaining about movement(in Wildstar, obviously) on top of a developer admitting it was a problem. So carry on personally attacking people for their opinions. It only makes you look silly.

PS- stop putting words in my mouth. No one seriously criticizing Wildstar is saying that it sucks. It's a good game. No more, no less.

Lol sure. Criticize the game based on some arguable point, ignore any attempts to discuss it with you, plainly ignore the question someone asks you, attack the poster instead. Do you ever change your routine?

And again, I'm cool with you not liking the game. But honestly, do you even try to be useful to the conversation?

[Trix]

My main issue with the game is that the world doesn't feel alive and I will never visit these zones again once I am above the level cap.

One levelling route for each faction as well is upsetting.

Combat is nice and fluid at least.

[avarcis]

We are talking about how a player reacts to a certain type of movement in a game; instant vs. delayed. While both types are absolutely different, there is no reason why one is capable of being used in competitive play while they other isn't.

You are totally right Edge, but I think all of it is a little bigger that just movement. Indeed, the pvp crowd can get used to a bit of sliding in pvp and play around it, still all being perfectly competitive (it's an even playing field after all). The problem is in how the sliding is perceived. In other words, it's not about a character being slow to turn or strafe, or whatever, it is about it FEELING like the char is slow to turn and a lot of people might find that annoying.

[Keren]

The unfortunate thing is, keeping players playing long enough to become good at the game, and keeping enough of them playing to initiate an active and competitive scene (no MMO has been able to do this except WoW).

Thats why GW 1 had a greater and more structured pvp community, while wow struggled to get attention to its pvp. Beside that, wow needed about 3-4 years to achieve its high level pvp acceptability

[Zephyr Storm]

My main issue with the game is that the world doesn't feel alive and I will never visit these zones again once I am above the level cap.

One levelling route for each faction as well is upsetting.

Combat is nice and fluid at least.

Say hello to almost every MMO ever.

Hell, even GW2, the game that toted it would have a living, breathing world, has to FORCE players to go back to older zones by putting their content patches in those zones. If it wasn't for the shitty LS updates making everyone farm the next set of achievement points in an earlier zone, they'd never get revisited in that game either.

The day we see a developer make a game that can truly be considered a "living world" and makes you WANT to go everywhere, again and again.....that will be the next step in the evolution of MMOs.

And leveling in most MMOs has always been that way for the most part. It's cool seeing the leveling paths once or twice, but after that, making alts becomes a huge grind and chore because you've already seen and done everything from lvl 1 to max. Once again, even GW2 suffered from this, even though it offered multiple "leveling paths" in its world. You're eventually going to see it all, and then it just becomes a boring repeat on the next alt you make. Unless, once again, a developer can make a true "living world" that changes every time you level through it. But I've got a feeling we're a long way from anything like that .

[Kryos]

We are talking about how a player reacts to a certain type of movement in a game; instant vs. delayed. While both types are absolutely different, there is no reason why one is capable of being used in competitive play while they other isn't.

He is using the wrong word. Direct control feels better and reflects your personal reflexes. Any delay/inputlag takes away from that immersion and takes away from the fun. You can do competive play controlling Navy destroyers that need several minutes to turn, but if you play a person you want it to react to your input without a delay.

[Sharuko]

The day we see a developer make a game that can truly be considered a "living world" and makes you WANT to go everywhere, again and again.....that will be the next step in the evolution of MMOs.

I agree, I wish an MMO made a world like Skyrim. Where the world was still going on around you, while you did your actions. Or even like GTA, when you are playing, the world is actually functioning and not static. ESO does this mildly but not to the level of Skyrim.

I believe EQN is promising that level of AI, but we will see if they can deliver.

[Gaidax]

I would say it seems "unfinished" but then people would throw the beta word around as if that's something that will change by launch (it's much more than just sound effects, it's the entire design).

This is so true, I already seen in at WAR and SWTOR. There were issues, big ones really, but people were like "but it's betaaah!!" 2 months before launch. They were expecting some magic launch patch. It never happened.

[Simulacrum]

Thats why GW 1 had a greater and more structured pvp community, while wow struggled to get attention to its pvp. Beside that, wow needed about 3-4 years to achieve its high level pvp acceptability

WoW struggled to get attention to its pvp, and it took 3-4 years for it to reach "high levels of pvp acceptability"? Your memory is a lot different from mine... before cross-realm BGs, it was impossible to go to any realm forum without constant conversations about and high interest in pvp, be it in the game world or in the pvp instances. Even in TBC, almost every friend I had was asking me to join one arena team or another, and there was constant pvp going on in all the best farming locations, and everybody and their mother was making pvp videos.

These days, however... everything is so 'streamlined' and 'balanced' that I can't get myself to care about it anymore, and it doesn't seem like very many else are either, except to grind it as a source of gear.

[Kelimbror]

How? F2P games mostly have a horrible cash shop, from useless to pay to win. Though the common trait in F2P games is lack of updates and content. They just throw pure grind at you in the actual content updates you do get, which are bare minimum

Ignoring the rest of your garbage, what I have quoted implies a complete lack of experience or understanding of current F2P games. I haven't played one that even fits into your model. If you feel a F2P game has a useless cash shop....then...great! You will be able to enjoy that game at no cost to yourself. Meanwhile, there will be thousands of people willing to spend their money as they see fit on fancy outfits and disco ponies. Do your research. PS- personal bias isn't research.

[RoninaThorstone]

I like how the only person who has said anything along these lines is you.

I too enjoy this.