[Megathread] Wildstar - Now F2P

[Cattleya]

Eesh, where are you even going to get 80 people online simultaneously willing to help you get your supershiny weapon powered up?

[mehow2g]

I understand that Carbine is trying to make this game hard and cater to a more hardcore crowd for endgame, but 40 man raids and now 2x40 man (80 man) raids is just ridiculous.

The hardest part about large raids isn't the raid content...it's organizing 40 people on the same schedule, to get online at the same time (which isn't always possible due to shitty ISPs sometimes), and now they want to try and make 80 people do the same thing?

There's a reason 40 man raiding died in WoW. If it was THAT effective, fun, engaging, rewarding and worthwhile Blizzard would still be doing it to keep players and make more money don't you think?

I'll wait and see how this plays out, but I'm not very optimistic about this lasting more than the first tier (or however much they've already planned for 40+ man raids).

40 man's died in WoW because Blizzard changed it it was never dead in fact it was the biggest part of the game.

[Deleted]

40 man's died in WoW because Blizzard changed it it was never dead in fact it was the biggest part of the game.

Thats not true at all, Blizzard themselves said that the vast majority of players do not even raid, its the reason they introduced LFR. Hardcore raiders committed to a 40 man raiding guild were a tiny minority, there was also a good reason why 10 man raids were more common than 25 men.

[Kelimbror]

40 man's died in WoW because Blizzard changed it it was never dead in fact it was the biggest part of the game.

erm... It was not the biggest part of the game because <1% of players even participated in it. I don't like your math...it's very inaccurate.

[Puupi]

Thats not true at all, Blizzard themselves said that the vast majority of players do not even raid, its the reason they introduced LFR. Hardcore raiders committed to a 40 man raiding guild were a tiny minority, there was also a good reason why 10 man raids were more common than 25 men.

Well I certainly wasn't a hardcore raider in vanilla. I hardly even understood what raiding was about. I played a couple of times a week and had a blast facerolling (I was a fury warrior) through MC, BWL and AQ40....

EDIT: And I wasn't the only one. There were 39 others in the raid more or less clueless than me. Everyone was having fun, nobody was hardcore. Some random sign ups on a sparkly comic sans web page and people logged in at the same time.

[Arlee]

There are several one boss encounters in WoW that are called raids (Onyxia, Sartharion, Magtherido, etc) so...I guess just don't see what you're saying here. Maybe it's more that I don't know what these other people have been saying about it. It's an encounter designed for 80 people...I'm not sure how that can be taken the wrong way after his clarification. Edit: I mean if this is just open world encounters, I'm not sure what the big deal is anyways. I've been to a Volan in Rift that had like 300 people.

Oh ok. Some other sites and articles have been making it into a much bugger deal than it is. Like Carbine has kept this whole other raid tier a secret or something. It's just a level of exaggeration. I mean I feel like the fact it's tied to getting the last imbuement on the artifact weapons done is important and people just leave it out. For me that aspect makes it different.

Eesh, where are you even going to get 80 people online simultaneously willing to help you get your supershiny weapon powered up?

I am guessing most of 40 man guilds will wait until they have at least a few people on the last step before they start working on it. I'm also guessing it's likely guilds will need to form alliances to get it done unless they have enough to run multiple 40 mans at the same time. That's a category I don't see many guild falling into.

erm... It was not the biggest part of the game because <1% of players even participated in it. I don't like your math...it's very inaccurate.

Maybe he meant biggest part as in that's what the goal for PvE was? Not everyone made it there but most wanted to get there?

(I was a fury warrior)

Yay! Fury Though I did get annoyed at the 2h Fury hipsters in Vanilla. But that rant will derail the thread so I'm just going to leave it there

[Kelimbror]

Oh ok. Some other sites and articles have been making it into a much bugger deal than it is. Like Carbine has kept this whole other raid tier a secret or something. It's just a level of exaggeration. I mean I feel like the fact it's tied to getting the last imbuement on the artifact weapons done is important and people just leave it out. For me that aspect makes it different.

Hrm..ok. I mean it is a big deal in it's uniqueness, but I guess they're making it a negative deal? It is a little disheartening to hear that they are designing content for a smaller portion of the player base than even traditional hardcore raiding attracts. Pretty much each new thing they announce screams that they are forsaking the people who will actually fund the game. So I can see it negatively from that angle, but I don't see how this one thing is the straw that broke the camel's back or anything.

Maybe he meant biggest part as in that's what the goal for PvE was? Not everyone made it there but most wanted to get there?

That would still make no sense even if it was true, which it really wasn't. Most people who played the game didn't even know what raids were. I remember standing in line for TBC midnight release and listening to convos of people and wondering how everyone was such a noob. When I said I had killed all the raid bosses and we were even raiding Naxx most people didn't even know what they were and the other half wanted to worship me on some nerd altar. It was very weird. It was even worse since I was the first in line and walked out with a CE held high above my head to squeeze out of gamestop's narrow aisles. I expected them to bow down and start chanting at any minute. It was awkward.

[Tango]

I use Bijiplates and don't have a problem with targeting personally. I believe larger mobs will get targeted by way of clicking to attack and smaller mobs are more effective with Bijiplates over their heads and not a single target. If you are a class that has direct target abilities, like the Esper, it auto selects the closest target when you use the spell.

I have my left mouse button bound to primary attack builder and my right mouse button unbound for camera movement. Bard has his bound to dodge(dash). For interacting with the world, just about everything that can be talked to, gathered, touched, etc has the 'interact' function available. I just aim and press the button and I've had no issues. I did rebind interact to 'E' and loot to 'F' though.

I interact with E, basic attack with left click, dodge with right click. My F is my stun/kick/shieldbash.
Next weekend, going to try that powerauras addon. love pa.

Thanks guys, will try it out.

[Deleted]

Good idea, thanks. I like tanking - I play a warrior tank on wow currently and I really enjoy that, which is why I was interested in the Wildstar warrior. But I really love engineers attacks, and they seem like very solid DPS.

I'm not set in stone which I want to do for sure, but I prefer tanking.

Can't say past level 20, but at least for the first two dungeons on Beta, Engineers are solid tanks. Made a massive mistake spec'ing too much into DPS, and not enough into Support however and the healer struggled until I realised I couldn't just wing it.

Used this build however and the Engineer seemed to excel, and was pretty fun aswell... reminds me a bit of a Protadin in the way it works as a tank. Not sure if it'll help you much but here you go.

http://ws-base.com/builds/view/1112-...26.427.518.537

I just amended where I missed parts by using others.

[Woakerio]

I'm interested to see how stalkers hold up as tanks in the long run, would hate to see what initially happened to death knights in WoW...
"lol dk tank" *DK has been kicked from the group*

[Acidbaron]

Guildie just digged up 4 more (large maps) what have yet to be released so i think there's a lot more content coming our way in the near future.

All Tanks do fine, Stalker has been a bit OP for a while but every class is being brought in line with each other.

[Deleted]

Can't say past level 20, but at least for the first two dungeons on Beta, Engineers are solid tanks. Made a massive mistake spec'ing too much into DPS, and not enough into Support however and the healer struggled until I realised I couldn't just wing it.

Used this build however and the Engineer seemed to excel, and was pretty fun aswell... reminds me a bit of a Protadin in the way it works as a tank. Not sure if it'll help you much but here you go.

http://ws-base.com/builds/view/1112-...26.427.518.537

I just amended where I missed parts by using others.

How can you use that build at level 20 when many of those abilities are unlocked far later?

[Arlee]

That would still make no sense even if it was true, which it really wasn't. Most people who played the game didn't even know what raids were. I remember standing in line for TBC midnight release and listening to convos of people and wondering how everyone was such a noob. When I said I had killed all the raid bosses and we were even raiding Naxx most people didn't even know what they were and the other half wanted to worship me on some nerd altar. It was very weird. It was even worse since I was the first in line and walked out with a CE held high above my head to squeeze out of gamestop's narrow aisles. I expected them to bow down and start chanting at any minute. It was awkward.

That's ridiculously disturbing lol.

[Katchii]

It is a little disheartening to hear that they are designing content for a smaller portion of the player base than even traditional hardcore raiding attracts. Pretty much each new thing they announce screams that they are forsaking the people who will actually fund the game.

This is the viewpoint I am aiming from. I can respect Carbine for wanting to have difficult end game content, but 40+ man raids do not inherently make it difficult, it just makes it a logisitical nightmare for many people and practically inaccessible for people who can't commit to a raid schedule.

They can make truly difficult encounters without requiring 40+ people, just make one raid difficulty, not 4 like WoW does.

I can't predict what will happen to the game with this design philosophy, but as I said before, I'm not optimistic about it should this huge raid mentality stick around much longer than the first tier (or however much else they've already designed with this in mind).

[beanman12345]

I really don't understand one argument against 40 man raids. I can understand 40 man's not appealing to you, and there are dozens of MMO's out currently that supply small man raids, to meet your need. I'm sure carbine did research studies, and realized from those results there is enough of a demand for 40 mans, and that they want to supply to that demand. It's really quite simple.

[Kelimbror]

there is enough of a demand for 40 mans

That would be statistically improbable given the percentages of players that have participated in ANY raid content let alone larger and harder to organize groups. So yeah, I think it's more a shot in the dark approach to organized end game that they are using to differentiate themselves from competitors which will likely be replaced in short time with a more traditional model. There's no data we've ever seen in a decade that supports what you just said.

[beanman12345]

That would be statistically improbable given the percentages of players that have participated in ANY raid content let alone larger and harder to organize groups. So yeah, I think it's more a shot in the dark approach to organized end game that they are using to differentiate themselves from competitors which will likely be replaced in short time with a more traditional model. There's no data we've ever seen in a decade that supports what you just said.

Yeah, They invested millions and millions of dollars into something they've done 0 research into, and are just shot in the dark.

[Deleted]

Yeah, They invested millions and millions of dollars into something they've done 0 research into, and are just shot in the dark.

Blizzard invested millions on wow and 40 man failed anyway, what's that supposed to mean?

[Katchii]

I'm sure carbine did research studies, and realized from those results there is enough of a demand for 40 mans, and that they want to supply to that demand. It's really quite simple.

I question the results of the survey then, honestly. It's one thing to say you would play a 40 man raid on a push button, anonymous survey it's a completely different thing to actually do it in game and plan your day around it. I also think many of the folks who may have answered positively about 40-man raids were wearing rose colored glasses and being nolstagic about their good times in AQ40, MC or BWL.

All I'm really trying to point out is that the demand they're trying to supply isn't big enough to justify making their entire end game raid progression depend on it especially as a subscription based game. The biggest MMO behemoth of all time, World of Warcraft, used to have 40 man raids and all of them were implemented before the first expansion which means they were all likely in development around the same time (so they couldn't just change the design philosophy in the middle of designing it). The first expansion removed 40-man raiding and they are looking to shrink them even more now.

If the biggest MMO of all time decided to kill the 40 man raid in favor of smaller raids, for whatever reason and they are making money hand over fist, it just makes me very skeptical about someone else trying to implement them.

[Marema]

Yeah, They invested millions and millions of dollars into something they've done 0 research into, and are just shot in the dark.

It probably is a shot in the dark considering they hope that all of the WoW players, who for some reason, still hold to the idiotic notion that 40 man raids were awesome will all start playing Wildstar.

I hope everybody who plans on raiding in Wildstar has a great computer.