[Megathread] Wildstar - Now F2P

[Griffeth]

Why is it that every new game thread on here has people complaining about features, yet if those same features were left out they would be complaining because they dont have them...

I am looking forward to Wildstar gameplay to see if it is worth playing.

[Redblade]

Actually no, go ahead. I'd like to see this Butterfly effect of lower level gear in motion. Is it as beautiful and tragic as I'm imagining it to be?

How about...no, I hold no interest in attracting more non constructive bashing like you can see above here, just as I said in my previous post.

[Sj]

The back-and-forth needs to stop, it's not even relevant to the discussion of the game.

[Monarken]

Wearing gear that has green letters saying LFR quality is not prestige. Heck purple gear is not even prestige anymore since it's so fucking common. What is usually prestige is the titles/mounts/herioc gear/achievements that comes from them. Which is not from LFR. Meaning it's a personal problem not a game problem.

OFC it is a personal problem. I was stating MY opinion, which i believe there are many who shares with me. Having played since Vanilla i remember the awesome days of grinding Beaststalker on my hunter thinking i was the shit, looking up to the people in giantstalker/dragonstalker. I miss that feel, call it nostalgia if you want, but i think there are alot of people who agrees with my thought process.

My thought process is basically that effort=reward, and that you/me are not entitled to any reward, be it gear, the experience of seeing the raid, achivements or the likes without investing a moderate ammount of time in said "thing". I want the snowflake feels, i want the elitist stuff, thats why i think wildstar will be right in my alley.

Please dont spout this "OH BUT U DONT GET HEROIC ACHIVEMENTS !!! OMG ROFL" shit at me, its the FEEL that im after, and that is, FOR Me, lost in wow.

[Deleted]

Why is it that every new game thread on here has people complaining about features, yet if those same features were left out they would be complaining because they dont have them...
.

its a forum where discussions take place.. some people like certain features, some dont.. regardless of your personal opinion on a something its rather enjoyable to have an open discussion on it and find out how other gamers feel.

[Frigiddeath]

The whole LFR debate has been played out a thousand times and will never go anywhere. It does have some negatives to me but more because it is cross server than because it actually exist. LFR and LFD make it easier to just kind of ignore the greater world and community on your server as you never really have to talk to anyone in WoW to get anything done. This can lead to even a full server feeling kind of dead. The old days it could easily take 45 minutes to an hour to set up a pug dungeon run and who knows if it was going to even be able to accomplish anything. This pretty much forced players to develop closer nit groups of player circles to be able to get even dungeon done. While painful for people who really don't like socializing; it forced you to meet other players.

I know probably a lot of people on this board have friends they have met over WoW that helped make the game more fun to play. LFR and LFD can kill the basic sense of community in the game as you are just meeting players for 20 minutes and then never seeing them again. However, a lot of devs feel this is worth it as people complaining they can't actually play the game because it takes to long to find groups (especially for lower level content) can lead to a lot more people quitting.

If I remember right the Wildstar devs are contemplating locking LFD to your server in the beginning to help foster the sense of community in the beginning. This could be a nice compromise if people know they are playing with people from their server and actually begin forming circles because of it making the LFD tool slowly irrelevant to them. I am not going to even get into the whole LFR ruining normal raiding because it lowers it prestige as that is mostly more psychological than anything. Some people do feel that way and it does lower their personal enjoyment. Other feel like not being able to see every piece of content ruins their personal experience. It is not something easy to deal with in any game but we will see if the Wildstar team can do any better at it than the WoW team. Probably not but you never know.

[Kelimbror]

If I remember right the Wildstar devs are contemplating locking LFD to your server in the beginning to help foster the sense of community in the beginning.

No, it's a choice that will be available always, since community has nothing to do with the existence of an LFD. We've been over this discussion hundreds of times too, but at the end of the day most people who say they prefer no LFD or same server LFD actually say that for reasons relating to building community.

If 'community' is so fragile that having a convenience feature in automated group forming destroys it, then it's either a) not important or b) doesn't exist outside of fabricated or arbitrary game systems. In fact, lots of RP people talking in Wildstar forums have admitted to as much. Those are the real people who care about community and they are fine with an LFD, but did request to have a same server option.

If you care about convenience more than community, then you don't care about community. What most people mean when they say 'community' is they want authority to punish people who misbehave...which again, we've been over I believe in this very thread already.

[ZeroWashu]

Are people in the beta allowed to say how the combat feels like? Is it Vinductus or NWN, is it GW2, or is it WoW?

This is what most concerns me. WOW's visceral combat model is what keeps me coming back. Seeing the parries, dodges, blocks, and more, just makes me feel as if the characters are fighting each other rather than the shadow boxing so prevalent in GW2 and NWN. If this game ends up being a shadow boxing combat style it will lose my interest fast.

[RoninaThorstone]

This is what most concerns me. WOW's visceral combat model is what keeps me coming back. Seeing the parries, dodges, blocks, and more, just makes me feel as if the characters are fighting each other rather than the shadow boxing so prevalent in GW2 and NWN. If this game ends up being a shadow boxing combat style it will lose my interest fast.

You may be disappointed.
You know, maybe. Who knows.

[Kelimbror]

This is what most concerns me. WOW's visceral combat model is what keeps me coming back. Seeing the parries, dodges, blocks, and more, just makes me feel as if the characters are fighting each other rather than the shadow boxing so prevalent in GW2 and NWN. If this game ends up being a shadow boxing combat style it will lose my interest fast.

Umm...what? Not to be rude, but I don't think visceral means what you think it does. Maybe you meant visual? Idk.

Regardless, there's nothing amazing about WoW's combat. You stand there and mash buttons...there's really no more to it than that. I love the game and enjoy playing it, but to think that the combat is inherently more enjoyable by some special attribute it has is faulty logic.

Now it is fluid, in that you push a button and things immediately happen, but most of that is due to the fact that not much is happening. You push a button, a bar counts down, and colors fly out of your fingers. It's not like your character has momentum, or opportunity cost, or really anything.

[Griffeth]

No, it's a choice that will be available always, since community has nothing to do with the existence of an LFD. We've been over this discussion hundreds of times too, but at the end of the day most people who say they prefer no LFD or same server LFD actually say that for reasons relating to building community.

If 'community' is so fragile that having a convenience feature in automated group forming destroys it, then it's either a) not important or b) doesn't exist outside of fabricated or arbitrary game systems. In fact, lots of RP people talking in Wildstar forums have admitted to as much. Those are the real people who care about community and they are fine with an LFD, but did request to have a same server option.

If you care about convenience more than community, then you don't care about community. What most people mean when they say 'community' is they want authority to punish people who misbehave...which again, we've been over I believe in this very thread already.

The one thing I have noticed with cross server LFD tools is that it brings out the jerk in people for the most part. Taking items that they dont need for any other reason other than they simply can, or doing things to attempt to ruin the experience of other players simply because there is nothing stopping them nor any way that someone from another server can punish or help stop them is one of the better arguments for a same-server LFD tool.

[zito]

Please dont spout this "OH BUT U DONT GET HEROIC ACHIVEMENTS !!! OMG ROFL" shit at me, its the FEEL that im after, and that is, FOR Me, lost in wow

Basically you are saying LFR doesn't make you feel like your famous. Which it never intended to do (it's for people who want easy mode or don't have time to raid with a guild). Your problem isn't a LFR problem, it's a personal one that you are blaming LFR on.

If you feel like you aren't getting prestige or obviously noted enough for completed heroic mode (The rare mounts, titles, achievements and tier skin colors), that's a heroic mode problem.

[Kelimbror]

The one thing I have noticed with cross server LFD tools is that it brings out the jerk in people for the most part. Taking items that they dont need for any other reason other than they simply can, or doing things to attempt to ruin the experience of other players simply because there is nothing stopping them nor any way that someone from another server can punish or help stop them is one of the better arguments for a same-server LFD tool.

Acually it's not. We talked about this before, there were no mass repercussions in WoW like people think there were. People didn't maintain thousands of lines long blacklists that every player checked up when forming groups, or entering dungeons. It's a false sense of power that you can somehow prevent someone from being a d-bag.

At the end of the day, there's only so much parenting and discipline the game can be responsible for without sacrificing the quality of the game. Most MMOs have the tools available to prevent the common occurences, but you are never going to be able to eliminate them without eliminating the rest of the people participating in the game. ie, single player games.

Edit:

In fact, I've actually had less destructive experiences since WoW has implemented LFR than I've ever had. People are there for a purpose and tend to accomplish that in the best way possible. Serious offenders can be removed by group consensus and you can carry on with your business. Nothing more is needed, because both the things that happen and their suggest solutions are embellishments.

But your views do prove my point that it is about punishing the bad, bad man instead of growing a community. Most people just mask that honest opinion by saying it doesn't let them have a good community, which is not mutually exclusive.

[heltvild]

Blizzard just called and wanted their WoW thread back.


Please post constructively. --Sj

[Griffeth]

I guess coming from some smaller games in the past where community mattered outside of the RPers as you say, punishing the bad man or removing the people that are intentionally ruining the experience for other players from the higher tier groups/guilds had some relevance, but for the mass market MMO/MP Game I guess this really doesn't matter.

I guess we will just have to wait and see how the LFD and LFR tools impact this game

[Kelimbror]

I guess we will just have to wait and see how the LFD and LFR tools impact this game

Well Wildstar is taking a pretty solid approach in that content is exclusionary. If you want to raid, there is no LFR in this game. Dungeons will be available for cross server (for those who care about convenience) and same server (for those who care about community) in order to please both parties. While I feel that the same server people are going to find themselves highly disappointed in the long run, it at least will be a pool composed of people who honestly care about it instead of forcing that choice on everyone.

There's a lot of interesting discussion on how to promote good behavior and reduce toxicity in games, primarily published in the mainstream with regards to LoL. It's interesting to read all of that stuff, because that is one community that was overly abusive on a large scale. There are lots of secondary systems that can be added to games to support good behavior and reducing negative experiences, but at the end of the day everyone is a paying customer(even in F2P games, since those conditions are established by the developer). Unless they are directly violating the TOS/EULA they are just as entitled to be a dbag as you are to be a Mother Teresa. Sad reality, but it's true.

[Monarken]

Basically you are saying LFR doesn't make you feel like your famous. Which it never intended to do (it's for people who want easy mode or don't have time to raid with a guild). Your problem isn't a LFR problem, it's a personal one that you are blaming LFR on.

If you feel like you aren't getting prestige or obviously noted enough for completed heroic mode (The rare mounts, titles, achievements and tier skin colors), that's a heroic mode problem.

Nice, way to focus on ONE paragraph in my text, instead of the whole.

I am not BLAMING LFR for anything, i am simply stating that LFR is one of the reasons I Feel as I feel. Try to comprehend what you read, instead of nit picking lines that you clearly despise.

[wombinator04]

Unless dungeons in Wildstar mean something(cosmetic does not count) when your max level, there's no reason to not have a LFD. In WoW before LFD you still dealt with the retards you deal with in LFD now, so to me the community doesn't get any worse because of LFD.
I heard that the game will down level you to the level of a dungeon or w/e so there's still some challenge.

[RohanV]

WS ~> How many different versions of these bosses can you kill over time?
.. (A new, more/less difficult one every week, and/or in different environments & w/ extra adds)

You know, this is the one thing that I don't think is a good idea. If you master a boss, it's time to move on and learn the next boss. I think the "different modes" will end up forcing Carbine to make the bosses much easier, because you only have one week to learn the boss before it changes on you.

It might be fun for the very top end which blitzes through all the bosses very fast. But I think it will cause real problems for slower guild that wipe on bosses for a couple weeks before beating them.

[Redblade]

You know, this is the one thing that I don't think is a good idea. If you master a boss, it's time to move on and learn the next boss. I think the "different modes" will end up forcing Carbine to make the bosses much easier, because you only have one week to learn the boss before it changes on you.

It might be fun for the very top end which blitzes through all the bosses very fast. But I think it will cause real problems for slower guild that wipe on bosses for a couple weeks before beating them.

It all depends on the reward system to be fair.