1. #4781
    I believe wildstar and wow will be top MMO in future just like Dota vs LOL COD vs BF etc..

  2. #4782
    Quote Originally Posted by nooty View Post
    I believe wildstar and wow will be top MMO in future just like Dota vs LOL COD vs BF etc..
    would be kinda funny if that's the case because both have a kind of animated, jovial, art style. I'v heard so many mmo players say they don't like games with such art style because they consider them too "childish".

  3. #4783
    Quote Originally Posted by athlonmax View Post
    In my local gaming community(Malaysians), there's a little interest at all for Wildstar. I've made a thread similar to this and there was like 2-3 odd persons that shown interest for it.Others would be like " oh another wow clone MMO/combat looks stiff and slow etc etc".

    There's been more post on Ragnarok online 2/Dragon prophet compared to Wildstar lawl, it's hard to get a decent discussion of this game with my fellow Malaysians other than forum like this around the web.
    I know that feel, it's exactly the same in my country. Noone I told about the game seemed interested.

    Oh well, they will learn once it's closer to release.

  4. #4784
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redblade View Post
    Think the commercialization of beta has a lot to do with it as well, it's no longer something that the rare few get in to but instead something you can pay to have access to. Even more so with the concept of 'open beta'. So I do think they have them selfs to blame a bit (game dev/publishers as a general group, not NC specifically).
    Yes...it has definitely created a shift in the gaming culture in regards to betas. While the specifics you mentioned aren't happening in this game, they are happening in others.

    I think there are many factors that lead to this sort of behavior regarding betas.

    1) Betas by nature are exclusive, but now they are exclusively rubbed in everyone's face. Just the notion that No Beta Club exists means that companies have successfully established betas akin to an elite society of gamers.

    2) Recent developer failures, especially in the realm of MMOs, but reinforced by consoles pulling 'gotchas' with crap games that *looked* really, really awesome in pictures and videos.

    3) Monetization of youtube, especially revolving around gaming culture.

    Those three things right there are more than enough to create this horrible disconnect and lack of ethics plaguing our gaming journalism and fan bases. (regarding this issue)
    BAD WOLF

  5. #4785
    The funny thing is... on the whole despite the commercialization of betas and the larger betas on a whole... it hasn't resulted in games that are more complete and working better. And I think it has to do with now people just play the beta and complain if there is something they don't like instead of filing out bug reports and specifically testing things to see what it takes to break it. It used to be if you were in beta and you weren't doing these things you were kicked out. Now people look at beta as a way to test out a game :/

  6. #4786
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arlee View Post
    Now people look at beta as a way to test out a game :/
    Yes...seems that way. Probably why Wildstar took the elitist approach to who has been invited to arkships, who was in CBT1, etc. I don't really like it, because I'm afraid these people (who often have almost no experience playing MMOs or any games well)
    will affect the outcome too much...like...you know...SWTOR did.

    I understand the necessity for having people that will actually tell you what is broken, but it does seem like the players who would be more helpful in creating a successful game cba to do that anymore. They'd rather jump in, find the first game to compare it to, then write it off and go back to their game of choice. At least 50% in the time this results in someone checking to see if this is going to topple WoW, then immediately seeing that a closed beta doesn't have feature x,y,z from WoW and they dismiss it to failure and won't support the game.

    The thing that amazes me is how those people then turn to active, vocal dissenters against the games they still have no knowledge of. That's probably the worst result of all of this.
    BAD WOLF

  7. #4787
    I am Murloc! SirRobin's Avatar
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    I think the dumbing down of testers has more to do with the "mainstreaming" of the niche. As the market grew from hundreds of thousands to tens of millions? Well you ended up with more and more folks who are, well, mainstream. As in folks used to being spoon fed to the point of actually preferring things that way. Expecting commitment from them is like expecting honesty from a politician. Its just not the way most of them are "hardwired," so to speak.

    Since dreams of those WoW millions is how studios are getting the cash to make this new crop of MMO's in the first place? Well, its pretty much a given that they'll adjust their expectations accordingly.

  8. #4788
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Yes...seems that way. Probably why Wildstar took the elitist approach to who has been invited to arkships, who was in CBT1, etc. I don't really like it, because I'm afraid these people (who often have almost no experience playing MMOs or any games well)
    will affect the outcome too much...like...you know...SWTOR did.

    I understand the necessity for having people that will actually tell you what is broken, but it does seem like the players who would be more helpful in creating a successful game cba to do that anymore. They'd rather jump in, find the first game to compare it to, then write it off and go back to their game of choice. At least 50% in the time this results in someone checking to see if this is going to topple WoW, then immediately seeing that a closed beta doesn't have feature x,y,z from WoW and they dismiss it to failure and won't support the game.

    The thing that amazes me is how those people then turn to active, vocal dissenters against the games they still have no knowledge of. That's probably the worst result of all of this.
    I agree with this. I have found that a large portion of the testers have little to no experience when it comes to MMOs as a whole. I saw that with SWTOR. I was accepted into beta kind of late, but even then, I saw tons of things in chat (off the starter planet, mind you) asking "How do I choose an AC?" and other things.

    I wish those chosen were at least understanding of what tends to go wrong with an MMO as well as what they can do to find other bugs. Like Arlee stated, it seems that people just use Betas as a trial now to decide if they want to buy the game or not.

  9. #4789
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    How do you pre-qualify your beta testers though?

    I don't disagree with the sentiments being expressed here and the concerns echo mine that were made only too clear in the last, quite recent beta test I may have participated in.

    There's no MMO qualification, time spent playing means nothing, MMO (s) played means nothing - it's actually more about the person and their ability to provide reasoned/considered feedback. In fact it would be entirely sensible to have at least some beta participants who have little to no experience - not everyone who decides to play Wildstar will be a 7 year WoW veteran for example.

    I can see it's a very real challenge for the game companies; they need critical mass to test systems, drive interest etc but that desire it at odd for the requirement to have those people be able to genuinely useful at providing feedback/input.

    You only need to look at these forums to get a handle of the issue the "signal to noise" ratios is very poor and this forum is in theory the more focused, experienced, invested side of the MMO community.
    This one girl...

  10. #4790
    So I was wrong about E3. It looks like they will be there at the Alienware booth.

  11. #4791
    I don't know if there is a way to pre-qualify testers though unless games were going to give some sort of problem solving test or something (or keep a list of people who were valuable in previous beta tests). But one thing they could do is check on what kind of feedback the person is providing and if it isn't good/useful kicking them out of beta. Though it would also increase the number of "I was a beta tester and this game SUCKS!!!" sort of posts :/ They definitely would have top scale back the size of beta tests too, which I don't think that is likely to happen at all.

  12. #4792
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by v6Max View Post
    not everyone who decides to play Wildstar will be a 7 year WoW veteran for example.
    No, but do you know how many people total have played World of Warcraft in some capacity? last time I saw the number it was something like 25 million people. Can't even imagine how many people total have played MMOs in general. It's probably a staggering amount.

    The problem is that initial fan bases of new MMOs tend to be peope who have never played them before. I honestly don't know how they find out about them, or get into them, but they do. These people who have no experience with these games find out about them before me, someone who has played MMOs almost a decade. Maybe because I'm so busy already playing MMOs? Idk.

    We saw this happen in SWTOR, but that was because of the IP. I tried to keep it bottled up, but I came across so many people playing SWTOR who completely infuriated me by their lack of experience. I wasn't mad AT them, but it made the game unenjoyable many times...especially in the raid setting. I drank a lot while raiding in SWTOR and it generally made me enjoy my guild's slow mentality. They were great people, but they were noobs.

    I think the biggest problem is that these people still think they know everything and letting these people give feedback or contribute in such a major way during the games development is...awful

    Yes, they need new players to possibly get a new niche of people, but the majority of their players will be from other MMOs and already have a firm grasp on what they like and do not like. Even the people testing games to give reviews, from their gameplay videos, you can tell they have either a) never really played an MMO or b) are horrible at it.
    BAD WOLF

  13. #4793

  14. #4794
    sweet. i cant wait.

  15. #4795
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirRobin View Post
    Bout damn time!
    Transcript please. I'm assuming open beta?
    BAD WOLF

  16. #4796
    I am Murloc! SirRobin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Transcript please. I'm assuming open beta?
    I was figuring they were just going to do what I've been saying they should, and stream some Closed Beta gameplay. I just hope its at least 720, and that some smart fellow gets it on youtube very quickly.

  17. #4797
    The Patient Yowser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Transcript please. I'm assuming open beta?
    Q : "As of now are there any plans to do livestreams to let those interested & not in beta gain some more insight into the game?"

    A : "We are actually preparing all our live stream equipment now. Hope to be streaming soon!"

  18. #4798
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirRobin View Post
    I was figuring they were just going to do what I've been saying they should, and stream some Closed Beta gameplay. I just hope its at least 720, and that some smart fellow gets it on youtube very quickly.
    ah ok...I think people are going to be pleasantly surprised.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yowser View Post
    *snip*
    TY!
    BAD WOLF

  19. #4799
    High Overlord Boramir's Avatar
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    @Kittyvicious

    With all these subtle hints your dropping I can't help but think that someone you may or may not know, may or may not be involved in some way, shape or form with a certain soon-to-be-released mmo's beta. But... I guess we will never know...

  20. #4800
    @Kitty



    If I give you puppy dog eyes long enough you will tell me all the things you may or may not know

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