[Megathread] Wildstar - Now F2P

[RoninaThorstone]

did you actually read what i wrote? i adressed the issue of having several instances per zone (in wow) in detail. as did Kelimbror.

I stopped after you said something as silly as that :P

I'll go back and read it when I get the chance.

[Sy]

We don't need to make a campfire and sing cumbaya to work together

/disappointedface

I stopped after you said something as silly as that :P

I'll go back and read it when I get the chance.

i feel so loved..... >.<

[RoninaThorstone]

I have like 5 second so I will quickly try to do this:

What does it matter if people disappear at boarders? That's barely a problem compared to the issues many servers or cross server present.
Wildstar doesn't have 10 years of server identity so that's not an issue for them.
A global economy tends to be harder to manipulate than server economies. This is a mixed bag but might be a net plus.

bbiab, wife aggro

[Deleted]

1) i didn't say it was the games "responsibility". but technically, nothing is. it's a game. but devs will obviously always try to make the experience as fun and entertaining as possible for as many people as possible.

2) as i already said, it's not just an issue of what i and 'my friends' decide, as that isn't a single, closed circle. i want to play with some people that the friend i mentioned doesn't know, he wants to play with some people that i don't know, and in both directions many of these people that only one of us knows of course also have other people they want to play with that neither of us knows. makes sense?

3) whether i stay in touch over another program (which we do already) or not really doesn't matter for the game. i want to play together with these people.

4) none, which i adressed in a post last page. gw2 was supposed to provide the possibility for it, but the devs didn't manage to make it work as they had said they would. but if wildstar only satisfies requirements that other games already do, then why the hell would i play wildstar at all? why would anyone play a new game, if the old/current ones still had everything they wanted?^^.

I'll address Point the Fourth, son of points two and three, descendant of point one, from my own point of view.

I suppose, because I'm a few dispositions when it comes when it comes to MuhMoRPuhGuhs.

One, that the next "Big" MMO will always be better than WoW, and that I'm always hoping, in a slight masochistic manner, to prove myself wrong and that as usual, it will dissapear after a few months.

Two? I'm a slave to hype, and my friends have a real tendency to feed that hype with fattening, gluttonous hope that see's me dive headlong into a new game without knowing about it fully, no matter how much a particular MMO meets my simple gamer needs.

And three, and I suppose most importantly. No matter how great a game is, people like new things. New things are shiny, polished. They smell of bubble-wrap and that "New Release" smell when you open the plastic wrapping. No matter how devoted you are to a game, (Literally, devoted. People practise online games like they might a job or religion.) something new always fishooks you and drags you along to have a taste, however brief. (Such as my twenty minute playtime of GW2. Best forty pounds I ever spent.). I suppose, thats the biggest thing. People flock to new things, no matter how good your current one may work or suit your needs!

I wonder if Arlees dog-house has a paw controlled time-console...

[Razael]

I think they publicly said that it now is shared rather than tag based.

Yes. Tagging one mob and leaving it will only give ya a lousy amount of XP. Need to actually contribute properly to the kill.

[Sy]

What does it matter if people disappear at boarders? That's barely a problem compared to the issues many servers or cross server present.
Wildstar doesn't have 10 years of server identity so that's not an issue for them.

that's true, the visual thing is only very minor. but i do remember people complaining about in regards to phasing nonetheless (and not only related to having people in their own party disappear while trying to do a quest).

A global economy tends to be harder to manipulate than server economies. This is a mixed bag but might be a net plus.

the manipulation thing would be a plus, but the gw2 economy (the ah-like trading post is crossrealm) has the problem that it is pretty much impossible to use something like crafting to make any money, as the difference between mats and crafted item are practically non-existant. often the 5% cut of the system would be more than that difference.

bbiab, wife aggro

run for your life! D:

I'll address Point the Fourth, son of points two and three, descendant of point one, from my own point of view.

i didn't even know he had that title! :O
i hope i didn't come across as disrespectful ._.

One, that the next "Big" MMO will always be better than WoW, and that I'm always hoping, in a slight masochistic manner, to prove myself wrong and that as usual, it will dissapear after a few months.

Two? I'm a slave to hype, and my friends have a real tendency to feed that hype with fattening, gluttonous hope that see's me dive headlong into a new game without knowing about it fully, no matter how much a particular MMO meets my simple gamer needs.

And three, and I suppose most importantly. No matter how great a game is, people like new things. New things are shiny, polished. They smell of bubble-wrap and that "New Release" smell when you open the plastic wrapping. No matter how devoted you are to a game, (Literally, devoted. People practise online games like they might a job or religion.) something new always fishooks you and drags you along to have a taste, however brief. (Such as my twenty minute playtime of GW2. Best forty pounds I ever spent.). I suppose, thats the biggest thing. People flock to new things, no matter how good your current one may work or suit your needs!

true enough. "new" is definitely a big advertising word all by itself and i'm sure there are many people that are like you in regards to new games in general and mmos in particular. but still gaming does actually evolve over time. it's not always just the same thing in new paint -- it often is, too often i would say, but even small actually new things are picked up by the next games to improve their own, or take that small nice thing a step further.

also, while just shouting "look, new!" may be great to hype a game and get people interested initially, it's not enough to keep them playing for months (which every mmo aims to achieve) if there aren't enough things that are actually better than in -- or ar least different from -- the other mmos.

I wonder if Arlees dog-house has a paw controlled time-console...

maybe it's cookie controlled?

Yes. Tagging one mob and leaving it will only give ya a lousy amount of XP. Need to actually contribute properly to the kill.

i think by "tag based" he meant "only the one who tags it first gets xp and loot, regardless of who actually contributes to the kill and to what degree" like it is the case in wow & co :P

[RoninaThorstone]

the manipulation thing would be a plus, but the gw2 economy (the ah-like trading post is crossrealm) has the problem that it is pretty much impossible to use something like crafting to make any money, as the difference between mats and crafted item are practically non-existant. often the 5% cut of the system would be more than that difference.

In GW2 there's a power cap and no gear decay which results in a dead economy (this is why firefall has durability). Also, GW2 doesn't force you to specialize and become interdependent on one another so you can easily craft whatever you want by yourself devaluing not only the choice of professions but of the work crafters do themselves (this is why firefall is implementing specialization).

As wildstar is going to have vertical progression, the problems of a truncated power curve won't be there.

[Razael]

i think by "tag based" he meant "only the one who tags it first gets xp and loot, regardless of who actually contributes to the kill and to what degree" like it is the case in wow & co :P

Oh. I thought he meant the new tagging style WoW uses on quest mob bosses and timeless isle, where if you put something as trivial as a dot on the mob you'll get full credit and loot. Thats not how Wildstar shared tagging works, its more like GW2.

[Deleted]

true enough. "new" is definitely a big advertising word all by itself and i'm sure there are many people that are like you in regards to new games in general and mmos in particular. but still gaming does actually evolve over time. it's not always just the same thing in new paint -- it often is, too often i would say, but even small actually new things are picked up by the next games to improve their own, or take that small nice thing a step further.

also, while just shouting "look, new!" may be great to hype a game and get people interested initially, it's not enough to keep them playing for months (which every mmo aims to achieve) if there aren't enough things that are actually better than in -- or ar least different from -- the other mmos.

Naturally. It's only right, and indeed, smart! That new MMOs take what makes the others work so well and graft them on to their own product. What's worrying is that most games end up as what most of the online playerbase call "Wow Clones." while I'd be more inclined to call these particular similarities...Well, similarities, I suppose!

I just hope, and pray, that Wildstar (Such a bloody colourful game!) doesn't find itself afflicted with that stigma. I genuinely hope (As I did with Aion, Rift, SW:ToR) that it will finally, after all these years, present me with an alternative to WoW.

I suppose in response to your actual 4th point, "Why leave when another game is perfect.". I suppose it's because even perfection can become boring and fancy a change of scenery. That's my reasoning, anyway.

maybe it's cookie controlled?

Maybe. I'm not entirely sure about the effect of cookies on Time-Space travel.

[Keren]

As far as I can relalte to the wish for big servers. I kind if miss it to see the same people at the same time from day to day.. If the servers are to big its very harsh to build good communities, to get informations about new recruits etc.. It just feels like these things all sink into anonymity and the focus shrinks down to your own guild. I have some awesome memories of BC WoW about random radiing group that starts a guild or SWTOR to a really harsh PVE-Raider commitment born of races trough raids. But these things came only because the number of people where that small that you wanted to know the other. You saw them week after week at the citys or even random queues.

After WoW merged Servers and in GW 2 that feeling was lost due to the shear amount of people. I could have been transfered on a complete different server with my guild and wouldn't had even recognised that..


c ya, King needs to let people die and I want to read about that

[Sy]

In GW2 there's a power cap and no gear decay which results in a dead economy (this is why firefall has durability). Also, GW2 doesn't force you to specialize and become interdependent on one another so you can easily craft whatever you want by yourself devaluing not only the choice of professions but of the work crafters do themselves (this is why firefall is implementing specialization).

As wildstar is going to have vertical progression, the problems of a truncated power curve won't be there.

gw2 does have gear durability. but you're right, the effects of a shared economy might be less severe in other games, wow specifically. still i think it's a problem simply because of the huge competition, which means that price fluctuations of any description pretty much don't happen.

Oh. I thought he meant the new tagging style WoW uses on quest mob bosses and timeless isle, where if you put something as trivial as a dot on the mob you'll get full credit and loot. Thats not how Wildstar shared tagging works, its more like GW2.

i think you don't get full xp or loot when just tagging in gw2, even if it's not linear like "10% damage done only gets 10% xp". not entirely sure though.

Naturally. It's only right, and indeed, smart! That new MMOs take what makes the others work so well and graft them on to their own product. What's worrying is that most games end up as what most of the online playerbase call "Wow Clones." while I'd be more inclined to call these particular similarities...Well, similarities, I suppose!

i find the term "wow clone" quite silly and rarely have it seen used with good arguments to back it up. swtor did straight up copy many things though, like how some very specific abilities work.

I just hope, and pray, that Wildstar (Such a bloody colourful game!) doesn't find itself afflicted with that stigma. I genuinely hope (As I did with Aion, Rift, SW:ToR) that it will finally, after all these years, present me with an alternative to WoW.

or so you say. yet the game that shares most certainly the least similarities with wow, gw2, seemed to bore you immediately :P
could be coincidence, of course. but it is an unfortunate fact that making too many, too big changes to what has worked in other games (even if the changes sound promising) comes with a risk that does not seem to profitable in most cases.

I suppose in response to your actual 4th point, "Why leave when another game is perfect.". I suppose it's because even perfection can become boring and fancy a change of scenery. That's my reasoning, anyway.

indeed and i agree. but in order to experience that change of scenery, changes have to be made, new additions have to be added, even if only on a small scale or limited to certain aspects.
but i never actually meant to say that there is no reason to play a new game like wildstar, but rather that the argument "other games don't have it, so there's no reason for new games to have it either" doesn't work.

Maybe. I'm not entirely sure about the effect of cookies on Time-Space travel.

neither am i, to be perfectly honest, but i'm sure said effects would be delicious.

[RoninaThorstone]

gw2 does have gear durability. but you're right, the effects of a shared economy might be less severe in other games, wow specifically. still i think it's a problem simply because of the huge competition, which means that price fluctuations of any description pretty much don't happen.

I don't mean that kind of durability :X

I mean gear in firefall can only be repaired so much before it is permanently broken, meaning that you have to constantly replace your gear through the market or crafting. As crafting becomes specialized, you will have to use the market for whatever parts you are unable to craft yourself (or pay a fee every time you want to re specialize like in GW2).

But like I said, Wildstar will never have to worry about implementing a horizontal gear treadmill as they are going for an ever growing vertical progression.

*Three years later. "Why does this trinket have 12,000 moxie on it?"

[Razael]

i think you don't get full xp or loot when just tagging in gw2, even if it's not linear like "10% damage done only gets 10% xp". not entirely sure though.

You are correct.

[Deleted]

indeed and i agree. but in order to experience that change of scenery, changes have to be made, new additions have to be added, even if only on a small scale or limited to certain aspects.
but i never actually meant to say that there is no reason to play a new game like wildstar, but rather that the argument "other games don't have it, so there's no reason for new games to have it either" doesn't work

Good point. It's why I find myself confused. I want a change in scenery, but too drastic a change and I go crawling back on all eight limbs to the dark pit that is WoW. I suppose I look for similarities. Similarities allow me and I'd wager a few other gamers to slip into a new enviroment with greater ease, just as long as it's not the same room with different wallpaper.

[Deleted]

One thing I thought of was when reading about the mob tagging thingy was grouping. I know you will get some kind of currency by playing in groups with which you can buy housing stuff, but how is xp distributed in groups?
In WoW(which is like the only MMO I've really gotten into) grouping up severely reduce the xp you get from mobs and make some quests very tedious to do(find x amount of y mostly).
Do we have any information on how they handle this? Will we get 50% xp if we are 2 players in a group or will it be more/less? Will quest experience be halved as well, say if you have to kill 10 Pumera if you are alone as each Pumera gives 10% of the quest, do you need to kill 20 if you are in a group of 2? 50 if you are 5?

I am 95% sure to play Mordesh Redactineer, not sure if I'm going with a male to represent myself or a female. Strangely enough, my main/first character is almost always male while 9/10 of my alts are female... I wonder why that is...

[zito]

I am 95% sure to play Mordesh Redactineer, not sure if I'm going with a male to represent myself or a female. Strangely enough, my main/first character is almost always male while 9/10 of my alts are female... I wonder why that is...

Because in general, female characters get a lot more development and appeal over males.

[Sy]

so about the stalker ama:

generally their stealth, combo and mobility mechanics sound very interesting to me, and seem to be going into the direction i was hoping for (although maybe not quite far enough).

they adressed some concerns about stalker tanking and they do sound a lot of fun to play, but i remain unconvinced in regards to balancing.
maybe i'm just being paranoid, but the questions about raid main tanks and effective health seem to have been dodged rather than answered properly; a single 25+ second cooldown (in addition to comparable abilities of the other classes) will not be enough to keep a boss positioned well with high damage telegraphs that have to be avoided going off at second-intervals; and "but it's more fun!" is no solution to balancing the issue of aiming heals at high mobility tanks.

I don't mean that kind of durability :X

alright, but weren't we talking about how the server changes would (or wouldn't) work for wow? which does use the same durability system as gw2, and changing it to the one of firefall wouldn't work due to how content and loot is designed.

*Three years later. "Why does this trinket have 12,000 moxie on it?"

is moxie the mainstat of slinger and warrior?^^

You are correct.

\o/

Good point. It's why I find myself confused. I want a change in scenery, but too drastic a change and I go crawling back on all eight limbs to the dark pit that is WoW. I suppose I look for similarities. Similarities allow me and I'd wager a few other gamers to slip into a new enviroment with greater ease, just as long as it's not the same room with different wallpaper.

aye, similarities are important to most players, whether they realize it or not. striking the balance between "familiar" and "new" is mainly what makes designing mmos so incredibly tricky and often risky.

One thing I thought of was when reading about the mob tagging thingy was grouping.

i can only guess here, but usually parties do get increased total experience earned (even in wow, i think). just not to the point where it's straight up better to level exclusively in big groups. think two people in a party getting 70% (i don't know actual numbers) each when compared to going solo, making up for the fact that they will kill enemies a lot faster.
i imagine completing quests could work in a similar way, as wildstar uses a system that fulfills a percentage of a quest's objective (like gw2) rather than absolute numbers (like wow). with rewards being unaffected by grouping.

I am 95% sure to play Mordesh Redactineer, not sure if I'm going with a male to represent myself or a female. Strangely enough, my main/first character is almost always male while 9/10 of my alts are female... I wonder why that is...

because you prefer the looks of females, but want to identify yourself stronger with your main character, making it like your personal avatar in the game world?

Because in general, female characters get a lot more development and appeal over males.

what do you mean by "development and appeal"?
if you mean basically developement attention and time, that would not explain why he seems to pick a male first, then several females :P

[RoninaThorstone]

alright, but weren't we talking about how the server changes would (or wouldn't) work for wow? which does use the same durability system as gw2, and changing it to the one of firefall wouldn't work due to how content and loot is designed.

So, I am on my phone so I can't snip 80% of your post but I am responding to the section directed at me.
You moved the convo to Gw2 economy being a bit fail because of it being global but I was pointing out the two aspects that I think make it meh. I pointed out that you need a gear decay system in a horizontal progression / truncated power curve like in firefall. At which point you thought I was talking about the gold sink durability rather than the item sink kind.

edit: Back to my laptop.
This started out more by using WoW as an example of what they COULD do with their server tech. Not what they SHOULD do. Wildstar doesn't have the same problems as WoW would with server and character name identity. The phasing stuff is really a non issue and so the question became about economies. I disagreed with using GW2 as an example because they have a demand problem because of the issues I outlined like no gear decay or specialization.

[Ceale]

is moxie the mainstat of slinger and warrior?^^

SS main stat is finesse.

[Deleted]

What if Wildstar were to launch with the model similar to Gw2 where you don't tag things. If you run by and someone is killing something you need so you help and you both get credit for the kill and loots. That would put it right with the philosophy that you aren't competing with other players and would make the megaserver concept work better.

Thats exactly how it works in Wildstar now. This was one of the systems they reworked over the Beta downtime between CBT3 and Winter beta.

- - - Updated - - -

is moxie the mainstat of slinger and warrior?^^

Neither. Its the main stat for Esper. Slinger uses Finesse and Warrior uses Brutality.