1. #7721
    I am not sure if mmo tourists care more about a game being B2P or F2P than the average consumer. The people that go from MMO to MMO are stuck in a hype cycle and its' really the hype that they want to play rather than the game. It would be nicer if that hype cost them less, but even the cost question becomes a part of the cycle. One month its F2P is the future, next month is Subs are the only honest way,and then the next month is all subs are a scam because everything is F2P anyways.

    Basically, for the mmo vagabond to have a solid philosophy and view on what an MMO should cost would require a level of reason that they just don't care to have.

  2. #7722
    Quote Originally Posted by papajohn4 View Post
    But if there is a plethora of "High Quality" free games why everyone waiting for the next "high quality" game and also want it to be f2p? I used the word MMO Tourists before and for good reason...There are many people who jump from MMO to MMO to play for few months and thats why they want them free..although I don't know how good this is for the company..sure, a low quality MMO can win money from the 2-3 month tourists, but a high quality MMO will make you stay there and devote time and effort to it and make friends, join guilds, e.t.c.



    Excellent point..
    more like MMO Terrorists amirite.

    There are plenty of things to make you not want to play a game (bad gameplay, buggy, etc), and if a payment model is one of them good for all of you. Don't play it then. But don't expect to convert people who have been paying subs for a long time (Starting with UO for me) into believing your Farmville style payment model is best for a AAA game.

  3. #7723
    Quote Originally Posted by waddlez View Post
    Farmville style payment model is best for a AAA game.
    It's not Farmville style. That's they Zynga model, a model which gates play by limiting the amount of activities you can do within a given time period, and then forcing you to either wait till your "activity points" recharge (slowly), or pay to get more of them.

    The Zynga version of the F2P model used in countless social/mobile games is lightyears different from the model used in major Western MMO's.

  4. #7724
    Quote Originally Posted by papajohn4 View Post
    But if there is a plethora of "High Quality" free games why everyone waiting for the next "high quality" game and also want it to be f2p? I used the word MMO Tourists before and for good reason...There are many people who jump from MMO to MMO to play for few months and thats why they want them free..although I don't know how good this is for the company..sure, a low quality MMO can win money from the 2-3 month tourists, but a high quality MMO will make you stay there and devote time and effort to it and make friends, join guilds, e.t.c.
    Why are people waiting for the next one? There are a few reasons.

    MMOs don't have unlimited content. Even the subscription based ones that artificially extend the content with grind to keep you paying are eventually burned through.

    People like variety. Games may add more zones, abilities, etc, over the years, but they're still pretty much the same game they always were with a few extras tacked on now and then. It gets boring after a while.

    Innovation. People want to see what new ideas will be brought to the table by new games, and there are some big changes being made currently to try and win the attention of gamers.


    Also, if the people you are referring to in a derogatory manner are MMO Tourists, then surely you must be one of the MMO Locals. Looking down your noses at the temporary visitors without whom your game would be struggling, laughing at their attempts to learn the local customs and fit in, treating them with disdain because they wont settle down, not knowing they have roots and friends elsewhere, all the while secretly jealous of their lifestyle full of new experiences and wonder, while you go about your humdrum daily routine. Stuck in a rut. Too scared to take a risk. No way out...

  5. #7725
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    It's not Farmville style. That's they Zynga model, a model which gates play by limiting the amount of activities you can do within a given time period, and then forcing you to either wait till your "activity points" recharge (slowly), or pay to get more of them.

    The Zynga version of the F2P model used in countless social/mobile games is lightyears different from the model used in major Western MMO's.
    Then why in GW2 am I stuck with an awful amount of storage space unless I pay up, gating my ability to play more until I pay.

  6. #7726
    waddlez, aren't you a new player to gw2? You should have plenty of storage with the wallet feature.

    Anyways, I bought my extra bank space with gold. =D

  7. #7727
    Quote Originally Posted by waddlez View Post
    Then why in GW2 am I stuck with an awful amount of storage space unless I pay up, gating my ability to play more until I pay.
    You're not prevented from playing, that's your choice. There is literally nothing stopping you from continuing to play and not looting things. Like, at all.

    The Zynga model literally stops you from playing, as you are unable to do anything until you've saved up enough "activity points" to do the next activity.

  8. #7728
    Quote Originally Posted by waddlez View Post
    Then why in GW2 am I stuck with an awful amount of storage space unless I pay up, gating my ability to play more until I pay.
    How exactly does storage space prevent you from playing?

    Also, all crafting materials are stored in a separate area of the account vault, up to a 250 stack of each type, and there are more than 350 different crafting mats you can store there, making the actual storage you get much more than most MMOs give you by default.

    Also, you don't even have to pay real money to expand storage space. You buy more space with gems, and gems can be bought with gold.

  9. #7729
    Quote Originally Posted by zed zebes View Post
    waddlez, aren't you a new player to gw2? You should have plenty of storage with the wallet feature.

    Anyways, I bought my extra bank space with gold. =D
    And I like that I can trade gold for gems, but as a lowbie it is impossible to get enough.

  10. #7730
    Quote Originally Posted by waddlez View Post
    And I like that I can trade gold for gems, but as a lowbie it is impossible to get enough.
    I never had any issue with inventory with GW2 and I haven't bought any extra slots.

    Are you breaking down / vendoring stuff? It sounds like you aren't vendoring enough if you are having gold issues.
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  11. #7731
    Well, I may have to avoid all Wildstar communities like the plague until the commotion dies down and returns to where it was before.

    As for me, I'm glad it's subscription-only. I want to be able to play one low flat rate every month and have access to everything that they develop, regardless of whether or not I partake to the fullest. "Optional subscriptions" like what RIFT and TERA does is terrible in this matter, because even though I'm paying for a subscription, I don't suddenly get the ability to buy all the shop items with in-game gold. Instead, I'm now paying a subscription and have to pay more if I want what's on the shop.

    Also, to the people that are pro-F2P, know this: most games that were good in recent times, but went F2P, did so because they needed to payback investors, and subscriptions won't do that fast enough. Transitioning to F2P allows for a large cash grab that they can then pay off those investors, but by this point they are now stuck with F2P and must go with it.

    Blizzard, CCP Games, even Square Enix show that subscription only works if the company behind it is privately funding the game, not investors.

  12. #7732
    I don't get why so many people are making this blatant statement that "WS has a sub". Did you miss the second part about CRED? You can play for free, and yes you have to play to earn the gold, but if you don't want to play then you have bigger issues to solve.

    The good I see from this system:

    -non-segregated world: everyone has access to all the same content and plays in the same world. No divided community and differing content access based on payment choice.

    -No gimmicky tactics to drive people into a cash shop

    -Gold farming potential is reduced

    -Biggest reason that no one discusses, which is the strong suit of EvE: WS will be an economy driven game, gold will be an extremely valuable resource and the world will be populated even at level cap with people out there hunting for gold through various means. This to me is the single biggest combatant to the "sit in city and que" syndrome that is common in too many MMOs now.

    -

    *~To change one's life: Start immediately. Do it flamboyantly.~*

  13. #7733
    Quote Originally Posted by ShimmerSwirl View Post
    I don't get why so many people are making this blatant statement that "WS has a sub".
    Because it does. CREDD is a transferrable subscription, just the same as PLEX in EVE, Kronos in EQ2, and Chronoscrolls in Tera. Someone is paying that subscription (+$5) so you can buy it in game and use it to extend your subscription time.

    I'm not saying it's a bad model, quite the contrary. I think that if you're going to use a subscription model than having a system like this is awesome.

    However, I have my doubts about whether this is the best game to use a model like this, that's all.

  14. #7734
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    However, I have my doubts about whether this is the best game to use a model like this, that's all.
    I think it will come down to how good their elder games are, and they haven't shown much of that at all. If they make a great endgame with meaningful progression that people can get into, whether it be through raids, housing, pvp, the world or whatever, I think people will pay the sub.

    *~To change one's life: Start immediately. Do it flamboyantly.~*

  15. #7735
    Quote Originally Posted by ShimmerSwirl View Post
    I think it will come down to how good their elder games are, and they haven't shown much of that at all. If they make a great endgame with meaningful progression that people can get into, whether it be through raids, housing, pvp, the world or whatever, I think people will pay the sub.
    And they have to do a good job redoing their leveling zones in order for enough people to reach their elder games.
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  16. #7736
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bardarian View Post
    And they have to do a good job redoing their leveling zones in order for enough people to reach their elder games.
    I really want to quote this. I do agree that it is important that they do Elder Game well (see SWTOR); however, if players don't even get to Elder game, it's useless. Using Blizzard's data, we know that the majority of players quit even before top level, especially in Vanilla. This was the reason for the Cataclysm revamp. Sadly, for Carbine to succeed, they NEED to do everything right...the first time, as subscription is already a barrier for potential players.

    P.S. Guest passes are an excellent idea and I'm glad they're including them.

  17. #7737
    Wowza. Just catching up on all the delicious threads across the internet w/r/t payment model.

    I can't think of any MMO in recent years with this strong a vocal souring.

  18. #7738
    Quote Originally Posted by Pejo View Post
    I really want to quote this. I do agree that it is important that they do Elder Game well (see SWTOR); however, if players don't even get to Elder game, it's useless. Using Blizzard's data, we know that the majority of players quit even before top level, especially in Vanilla. This was the reason for the Cataclysm revamp. Sadly, for Carbine to succeed, they NEED to do everything right...the first time, as subscription is already a barrier for potential players.

    P.S. Guest passes are an excellent idea and I'm glad they're including them.
    Their first attempt leaves me with very little confidence in their second attempt.

    In terms of "leveling" it's one of the least engaging MMOs I've played. It's far behind swtor, lotro, gw2, nwo, or even age of conan. It feels more like Tera or [redacted] questing. Boar pelts for characters you can't bring yourself to care about.

    But, they know it needs a lot of work. That's a plus.

    edit: That was unfair to chocolate rift. It's over arching plot threads were pretty well done.
    Last edited by Bardarian; 2013-08-20 at 03:32 AM.
    Lv30 (Warframe) - Zephyr - Boltor Prime - Lex Prime - Dakra Prime -
    Lv40 (Firefall) - Dragonfly - Recluse - Biotech - Mammoth - Arsenal - Rhino- Dreadnought - Nighthawk - Raptor - Recon - Tigerclaw - Electron -
    Lv60 (Neverwinter) - Rogue - Fighter - Wizard - Guardian - Cleric -

  19. #7739
    Quote Originally Posted by Bardarian View Post
    Their first attempt leaves me with very little confidence in their second attempt.

    In terms of "leveling" it's one of the least engaging MMOs I've played. It's far behind swtor, lotro, gw2, nwo, or even age of conan. It feels more like Tera or [redacted] questing. Boar pelts for characters you can't bring yourself to care about.

    But, they know it needs a lot of work. That's a plus.

    edit: That was unfair to chocolate rift. It's over arching plot threads were pretty well done.
    Because it's a game focused on endgame, how it should be, they talked a lot about this.

  20. #7740
    Quote Originally Posted by Khain View Post
    Because it's a game focused on endgame, how it should be, they talked a lot about this.
    The discussion is, if the leveling experience is not very good then the endgame won't matter because people will give up on it long before they reach level cap. That's what Bardarian is talking about. Wildstar has to hook people during the leveling process or they won't bother going for endgame, so yeah they do have to focus on leveling as well.
    Last edited by CrimsonKing; 2013-08-20 at 05:47 AM.

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