[Megathread] Wildstar - Now F2P

[corebit]

Unless it was open beta without rollbacks, like FFXIV just did. I could see that, as it would basically be getting people to commit before they pay for it. It also means they would have to have a lot of end game content ready to go at launch or else it will backfire.

We'll see. An open beta with no rollbacks would be amazing.

FFXIV last beta phase should have just been called "early-early-access". It was so close to the launch date (ten days before launch ), it was basically meaningless to "beta test" anything other than to stress the servers, and even then the same server and login issues are still present right now.

Any modern MMO right now will offer early-access with no roll-backs to entice the hardcore fans and boost preorder sales. But anything earlier for a non-rollback would be unfair to everyone because of such a huge headstart.

[Collected]

Pretty sure our feedback is why they decided to push back their launch date. I too am hoping for some pretty significant changes in ctb4.

Still can't get over the idea that they want a subscription fee for this... But, who knows. Maybe in half a year or more it will be ready for that.

They spoke yesterday at PAX about how beta testing feedback had led to them re-doing the questing system, so they do listen and do make major changes as a result of player feedback. So rather than having to get 10 items from mobs, you now have to fill a little "XP" bar similar to GW2.

Also none of the end game content has been seen yet by beta testers, so how can you really judge if it's worth a subscription or not? I think it's worth waiting and seeing. I have concerns too.. one of the devs said yesterday they're "working overtime to get it out the door" which set off alarm bells in my head. But perhaps he didn't mean it literally. I'm excited to see what they come out with. The housing alone looks amazing. The freedom they're giving players with that is impressive. They seem to have an "anything goes" mind set which is refreshing.

Edit: Actually you don't need to hit end game to subscribe to a game so that comment about wasn't the best. I guess what I meant was they've not finished the game yet so it's perhaps too early to judge if it's worth a sub.

[RoninaThorstone]

Just out of curiosity what is so "meh" about the beta, I keep on hearing it and it's crushing my hype.

Um... Almost everything was 'meh'. KV was uber hyped about this game till he got to try and he explained it best when he wrote (paraphrasing) "amazing ideas with half hearted execution".

The questing was bland with poor presentation. One thing was nice about it, the lack of back tracking. But the way they did it made it feel incrediably disjointed. There was 'bread crumbing' but it felt weird. It felt like you ended up in places by happenstance rather than plot. On top of it just being a generic sound clip like 'watch your back out there' + a box of poorly written text the quests were mainly 'collect 10 lofitite' and kill '6 scorpids'. It was the ultimate example of having leveling in your game for 0 reason.

Then there's the combat. Mobs have an autoattack or 'white dmg' that makes the combat less than action. It's actually just wow combat (on the mob side) with lots of aoe spells that have long cast times. On the player side, it's actually pretty okay. It's nothing stellar and nothing you haven't already seen in other MMOs. It's far less ambitious than they make it out to be. You know ranged spells in NWO like the priests light spear chuck? How it makes the ground telegraph in a retangle going outward from your body? That's how the ranged abilities are like for the most part. Melee abilities are like anything you would see in GW2 (I use GW2 for this example because of the lack of rooting).

The movement was good up until a point. At a certain speed your character becomes 'slippery' and you move like you are on oil or something. You can see this when you gain too much speed from falling or walking down a steep slope. You just soft of... lose all traction and then slide for a while. That's probably an engine problem.

The path I chose was explorer which was painfully unimpressive. I just followed a giant arrow to random places. I didn't feel like I was exploring anything.

The abilities are pretty boring too. The most interesting part of stalker was the fact that my abilties were altered by my position slightly. So like, rupture like ability would crit from behind. Or backstab would do more dmg. ect. Doesn't really have an impact due to the fact that mobs are faster than you, have instant attack white dmg, and you would be attacking from behind in PVE anyways.

The housing system is okay... It's got nothing on rifts except that it's more inutitive.

/shrug.

And most the PVE mechanics I've seen in videos, I've seen while raiding in WoW or other MMOs so... /shrug. We shall see...

[Agent Drew]

You didn't 'fix' anything. It's literally mathematically not true that subscriptions are required to produce content. End of story.

That's a silly thing to say. It all depends on the amount or type of content being produced.

Guild Wars 2 does it.

All you kids keep pointing toward that game like it's some magical example to how to do mmo's right. I'd ask all of you if you still even play that game, but I'm sure several of you would lie and say you log in all the time. Everywhere I go I see mostly people who say they log in every now and then and that it doesn't have much content to keep you playing each day like classic mmo's do. It's just another in and out online game with little to keep you invested.

That's what I'm hoping won't happen in wildstar. I'm looking for a game where I want to log in everyday, a virtual place to call home like I did back in vanilla wow. Maybe it'll be that game or maybe it won't, but so far I'm happy with what I see.

It is a fact and irrefutable.

LOL

Unless your argument is 'with Wildstar's design budget they need subscriptions', which is just another thing wrong with how they operate as that means they can't manage a project budget efficiently, then you have nothing valid to say on the matter.

Question? How many people are working on these games that you say are so superior? Just how much content are we getting post launch for wildstar? Do you have some inside knowledge on this? Cuz if not I really don't see how you can claim they're not budgeting efficiently.

I wouldn't know if you were making that case in any event, because in your rush to be snarky you forgot to actually have a conversation. Feel free to elaborate on how you will to argue with facts though, it would be an entertaining read.

Carefull now, your head gets any bigger you won't fit through the doorway.

[3vyan]

Um... Almost everything was 'meh'. KV was uber hyped about this game till he got to try and he explained it best when he wrote (paraphrasing) "amazing ideas with half hearted execution".

...

And most the PVE mechanics I've seen in videos, I've seen while raiding in WoW or other MMOs so... /shrug. We shall see...

You totally killed my hype for this game ...

[RoninaThorstone]

You totally killed my hype for this game ...

They pushed back their release date.

Just put the hype in a box until we see what they do with that time. It could be they make it amazing.

[Kelimbror]

That's a silly thing to say. It all depends on the amount or type of content being produced.

No it really doesn't. It depends on the way you budget your resources and how much money you want to fill a pool with. You are naive if you think it is any different.

All you kids keep pointing toward that game like it's some magical example to how to do mmo's right. I'd ask all of you if you still even play that game, but I'm sure several of you would lie and say you log in all the time.

1) You aren't going to get very far here if in less than 20 posts you are already referring to an entire forum base as 'kids' Please have some maturity.
2) I go through phases of playing the game when I want to. You know why? B/c it's designed that way. There is something constantly to do and to get all the achievements and rewards I would have to play nonstop. However, you don't have to. I don't have time to do that with more than one MMO, so I choose to play many of them less. You sound very insecure about people's feelings towards this game.

LOL

You should probably learn what factual information is. Numerical data is a good representation of it. We have games that are developed on a more rapid pace with no subscription and similarly designed games that operate without a subscription. In fact, WoW is the only game that even has a subscription and develops like this and they didn't deliver on their content until this year. Out of 8 years, they just now delivered with a sub model...as their subs are declining rapidly. Clearly the ideas aren't mutually exclusive.

Again, you should probably try a little maturity and have an actual conversation. The way you post is likely going to cause problems for yourself. Just a friendly word of advice for someone who used to be as hot headed as you appear to be.

Question? How many people are working on these games that you say are so superior? Just how much content are we getting post launch for wildstar? Do you have some inside knowledge on this? Cuz if not I really don't see how you can claim they're not budgeting efficiently.

All of this is irrelevant for the numerical data discussed above. Sure there's some off chance they'll put out a raid every 2 weeks. Buuuut...yeah. No reason to expect that at all.

Carefull now, your head gets any bigger you won't fit through the doorway.

Don't directly insult me like this again. Consider this advice: Smiley faces at the end of insults aren't a get out of jail free card with forum rules.

- - - Updated - - -

Um... Almost everything was 'meh'. KV was uber hyped about this game till he got to try and he explained it best when he wrote (paraphrasing) "amazing ideas with half hearted execution".

Now, now...that's just my take away from watching videos. In no way, shape, or form have I played the game...

- - - Updated - - -

Also none of the end game content has been seen yet by beta testers, so how can you really judge if it's worth a subscription or not?

Because you can determine design principles and delivery on stated intentions without seeing endgame.

[corebit]

All you kids keep pointing toward that game like it's some magical example to how to do mmo's right. I'd ask all of you if you still even play that game, but I'm sure several of you would lie and say you log in all the time. Everywhere I go I see mostly people who say they log in every now and then and that it doesn't have much content to keep you playing each day like classic mmo's do. It's just another in and out online game with little to keep you invested.

I believe the above post has merit (without the attacking tone of course). I have yet to see a compelling argument other than personal preference for GW2's B2P. They are doing fast content updates now, but how long can they keep that? Let's see another year or two down the line before saying its model is really successful or not. And the latest ArenaNet infographic does't even tell what's the current retention rate, they are craftily avoiding that.

Anyways, enough about GW2. The mods have already issued a warning. And hopefully enough about payment model on my favorite MMO threads, Wildstar and ESO :P (because I am deciding which one of these to play).

[RoninaThorstone]

Now, now...that's just my take away from watching videos. In no way, shape, or form have I played the game...
.

Oh! Riiiighht. We aren't breaking the NDA. We just 'happen to know this stuff' :P

[Agent Drew]

No it really doesn't. It depends on the way you budget your resources and how much money you want to fill a pool with. You are naive if you think it is any different.

A single person can only do so much on his own. Budget all you like, you can only stretch so much outta any set amount of hours or manpower.

1) You aren't going to get very far here if in less than 20 posts you are already referring to an entire forum base as 'kids' Please have some maturity.

Generalize much? I'm sure there are plenty of GW2 gamers that don't cram their love of that game down peoples throats. And my post count means nothing, the fact that you are already looking at my post count puts your maturity into question.

2) I go through phases of playing the game when I want to. You know why? B/c it's designed that way. There is something constantly to do and to get all the achievements and rewards I would have to play nonstop. However, you don't have to. I don't have time to do that with more than one MMO, so I choose to play many of them less.

And you know what.... THAT'S OK! F2P/B2P is really more designed for that in and out kinda gaming. I understand not everyone has the time to play all that much at a time, hence a sub model makes less sense for them. But that's no reason why Wildstar (or any other mmo) can't be sub.

You sound very insecure about people's feelings towards this game.

I sound?.....

You should probably learn what factual information is. Numerical data is a good representation of it.

I know facts require evidence, not claims.

Out of 8 years, they just now delivered with a sub model...as their subs are declining rapidly. Clearly the ideas aren't mutually exclusive.

Purely subjective. I personally feel their content was fine up until the lich king patch. But what do I know, I've got a low post count.

Again, you should probably try a little maturity and have an actual conversation.

Just cuz you don't agree with it, doesn't make it any less a conversation.

The way you post is likely going to cause problems for yourself. Just a friendly word of advice for someone who used to be as hot headed as you appear to be.

While I appreciate your back handed advice I would like to offer a little of my own. CHILLAX

Not everyone who disagrees with you is a hot head. I'm simply pointing out my opinions just as you are. Although I would recommend acknowledging the difference between fact and opinion. Let's simply agree to disagree.

[shamestia]

I don't like this kittyvicious person, not one bit. I'm glad the Internet allows me to tell you this.

Please post productively. Infracted. -Edge

[RoninaThorstone]

You know, I've had a lot of difficulty explaining exactly what happens when your character has too much speed... But I think I have a way of explaining it.

In most MMOs, when you fall and hit a lip in the cliff you stick to it and take fall dmg (sometimes you die). In wildstar, you are reflected off the lip at the angle of the ground as if you are a beam of light hitting an angled mirror.

Further, when you land you maintain a fair amount of speed inherited from a fall or rapid decline down a slope resulting in a sort of 'sonic-eske' leg spinning while you drift in a different direction. So your characters legs are running full force as you slide the other direction. So of like how if you hit a sideways spring while running in sonic, you bounce back and the running animation begins but your character is still going backward and sonic slowly regains movement and then burst forward again.

[Remilia]

You know, I've had a lot of difficulty explaining exactly what happens when your character has too much speed... But I think I have a way of explaining it.

In most MMOs, when you fall and hit a lip in the cliff you stick to it and take fall dmg (sometimes you die). In wildstar, you are reflected off the lip at the angle of the ground as if you are a beam of light hitting an angled mirror.

Further, when you land you maintain a fair amount of speed inherited from a fall or rapid decline down a slope resulting in a sort of 'sonic-eske' leg spinning while you drift in a different direction. So your characters legs are running full force as you slide the other direction. So of like how if you hit a sideways spring while running in sonic, you bounce back and the running animation begins but your character is still going backward and sonic slowly regains movement and then burst forward again.

So like Legend of Zelda games with Link running on ice platform?

[RoninaThorstone]

So like Legend of Zelda games with Link running on ice platform?

Yeeaaaahhhh.

Granted, it only happens when you are moving 'too fast' but that happens a lot. Esp as an explorer.

[Deleted]

so it only happens when you suck at jumping.

[Collected]

They showed some live gameplay on twitch.

Combat is interesting. It appears to encourage a lot of jumping/rolling out of the way of the various telegraphs and AOE spots on the ground.. the character was constantly on the move and it resulted in the fight taking up quite a large area of ground space. And I immediately thought to myself "it's going to be so easy to accidentally pull mobs in this game" and the player doing the demo did just that.. and died.

Not sure if they were fighting elite mobs that have more boss like telegraphs and or if all mob engagements require such movement. I'm not complaining.. it just looked like it might result in a lot of corpses.

[Deleted]

Some stuff. Don't know if there's a better quality version.

[Darkademic]

Look at the links above. Assuming that the retention rate is around 80% you end up with about an hour and a half a week or something. Since that retention rate is silly and practically impossible, the real amount of hours a week per player is probably much higher. If you assume that it's 500k players a week (low end figure) you get 49 hours a week... Which is way too high.

Again, points to the number of unique players in GW2 being higher than 500k a week.

According to ArenaNet, GW2 has 460,000 concurrent users (i.e. users online at any given time). Taking time zones into account, that suggests considerably more than 500k per week. I'd guesstimate around 1.5 million reasonably active players. I quit playing quite a while ago now, but I'm glad it's doing well.

--

On topic, I think WildStar is promising primarily because of the philosophy the devs are following. They're not ashamed about catering to the really hardcore players, even if they are a tiny minority, and they're very much endgame focused. They're trying to make the endgame content as replayable as possible by making it dynamic, and also by adding competitive elements on a scale that hasn't really been done before.

That said, I don't think anyone will be able to properly judge the game until reaching endgame, since that's where the best stuff is going to be.

I also think the addition of housing is clever, because it's effectively an extension of your character. MMO players tend to love loot and progressing their character, but in most other MMOs you're limited to a dozen or so slots for gear. Housing gives your character a practically infinite number of "slots" for progressing your character, and this has wider implications for things such as the economy of the game, since there'll be a much, much wider range of things people want. The ability to customise mounts, the crafting system, and the way stats work (all classes get something beneficial from all of the stats) further increases the scope for character customisation.

Player interdependence is also something worth mentioning. MMOs seem to have been trying to get away from interdependence by allowing all players to do everything (the elimination of the holy trinity, and the ability to learn all crafting professions in GW2 for example). WildStar seems to be opposing this trend by not only retaining the holy trinity, but adding the paths system which gives players some different ways in which they can help each other. Then there's also the interdependence of PvE and PvP players, for example WarPlots are built up using materials and items found in PvE, and raiders can make use of things only available from solo content, so non-raiders can help out their raiding guildmates (at least I think this is the case).

[Deleted]

According to ArenaNet, GW2 has 460,000 concurrent users (i.e. users online at any given time). Taking time zones into account, that suggests considerably more than 500k per week. I'd guesstimate around 1.5 million reasonably active players. I quit playing quite a while ago now, but I'm glad it's doing well.

That was in the first 4 months, not what it is right now. Just the usual PR trick.

A comment from Scooter why the new classes werent shown at PAX.

It's a great (and fair) question. Honestly? Their gameplay isn't ready to be shown yet, and we thought just an announcement of the names of the classes wouldn't be very interesting. As you may have read from various beta leaks, the two classes aren't even in beta yet; we're still working on them internally.
We want our announces to be cool and chock-full of info like the last couple have been, rather than tossing something out casually without any gameplay to back it up. It's a shame our development schedule didn't match up with Gamescom/PAX, but we're pretty confident that the announcement will be exciting enough on its own and doesn't need to be attached to a specific con.
(I just know if our schedule ends up working out and we DO announce at a future con, someone will totally point back to this reply and say "SEE YOU'RE SUCH A LIAR!")

[Elim Garak]

According to ArenaNet, GW2 has 460,000 concurrent users (i.e. users online at any given time)

"Concurrent" doesn't imply "at any given time". Most of the times it's a daily peak. Unless explicitly stated otherwise.