[Megathread] Wildstar - Now F2P

[ShimmerSwirl]

I would assume that if they are doing 40m raids that they would have something like that.
Lots of difficulties, some geared toward LFR players with a sort of "rookie" system from tera and another set of difficulties aimed at the hardest of cores so they can dick waggle while everyone else gets to see content.

(I would imagine is must feel pretty 'meh' as a developer to make something that only 1% of your player base gets to see)

Let the casuals have other content, not a watered down version of a raid. It cheapens the real raid.

[RoninaThorstone]

Let the casuals have other content, not a watered down version of a raid. It cheapens the real raid.

Yes. Much like how little league baseball ruins major league baseball, right?

Why is it, exactly, that someone else having fun ruins your fun?

edit: I've got an idea. How about the dev team devote their resources based off of the player base. So lets have them devote 99% of their staff to "other content" and 1-2 people on raids.

[Deleted]

Yes. Much like how little league baseball ruins major league baseball, right?

Why is it, exactly, that someone else having fun ruins your fun?

edit: I've got an idea. How about the dev team devote their resources based off of the player base. So lets have them devote 99% of their staff to "other content" and 1-2 people on raids.

because people are whining about 40 man being too big already? some people actually want 40 man raids and are willing to give the game and system a chance before saying it needs this or that to make it viable.

we have 20 man raids aswell.. along with group and solo dungeons. lets all calm down and wait and see

[Airlick]

It dosn't really matter who makes it, they could have ex Everquest guys working on it making 100 man raids, it dosn't mean people are going to flock back to 40 man raiding.

The only way that huge 40 mans would take off, is if they gave more loot, easier access to loot or were the only raid size. Why they're even bothering to make two seems silly. Yes it's more "epic" when you've got more people on the screen running around, but I remember back to the days of molten core and trying to get 40 people all playing at the same time was a nightmare.

I refuse to allow a game to become a second job to me and dictate at what times I can play it. If they're really serious about 40 man raiding, i'll probably hit max level and quit, as i'd assume many more would. Just look at cataclysm to proove that.

If they add 40 man LFR in, awesome, but they're really shooting them selves in the foot to aim for such a tiny niche of the mmo playerbase

Or they can just have several raid sizes with increased drop rates the bigger the raid, like WoW did, except they would also have 40 man raids. Or the 40 man raids could be like Nexus from TERA - public raids, you just enter an instance and you're instantly matched. We don't know how will it look like, but I think it's absolutely obvious they won't force people into 40 man raiding guilds.

[ShimmerSwirl]

Yes. Much like how little league baseball ruins major league baseball, right?

Why is it, exactly, that someone else having fun ruins your fun?

I don't know but it does.

Also, comparing apples to oranges.

[Delanath]

I don't know but it does.

Also, comparing apples to oranges.

Maybe a better comparison is a single A team to the majors. There's no logical reason having an easier raid around should make you feel cheapened.

[Immitis]

i dont really care what size raids there are as long as theres a way i can easily see all the story content with enough time and work put in

[ShimmerSwirl]

Maybe a better comparison is a single A team to the majors. There's no logical reason having an easier raid around should make you feel cheapened.

Logical or not, it does feel cheapened. When any Joe Noob can see and kill the most supposedly bad ass bosses in the world, the thrill for a real raider working hard to get there and see them and kill them is greatly diminished.

[Immitis]

Logical or not, it does feel cheapened. When any Joe Noob can see and kill the most supposedly bad ass bosses in the world, the thrill for a real raider working hard to get there and see them and kill them is greatly diminished.

when you play a game on hard do you feel cheated that some people out there are playing it on easy? if you choose to beat a legend of zelda game with only three hearts do you feel cheated when some guy beats it with all the hearts? when you beat the elite four with a ev/iv trained team of six pokemon when some little kid beats them with an ultra leveled charizard?

if you do you have some kind of psychological problem

[RoninaThorstone]

Logical or not, it does feel cheapened. When any Joe Noob can see and kill the most supposedly bad ass bosses in the world, the thrill for a real raider working hard to get there and see them and kill them is greatly diminished.

I don't think they should deny the ability to see content for 97%-99% of their players to satisfy some need to be a special snowflake for a tiny sliver of their population.

I mean, joe noobs 15 dollars a month is worth the same as joe tryhard. And there's a lot more joe noobs than joe tryhards.

[Immitis]

I don't think they should deny the ability to see content for 97%-99% of their players to satisfy some need to be a special snowflake for a tiny sliver of their population.

I mean, joe noobs 15 dollars a month is worth the same as joe tryhard. And there's a lot more joe noobs than joe tryhards.

in my opinion it depends on what the content is. in my opinion everyone should have the right to see story content, if that means giving them shitty versions of what the hardcores get i dont care but if someones paying for a game they deserve to see the entire story of that game

[RoninaThorstone]

in my opinion it depends on what the content is. in my opinion everyone should have the right to see story content, if that means giving them shitty versions of what the hardcores get i dont care but if someones paying for a game they deserve to see the entire story of that game

Yeah.
Easy mode
Normal mode
Hard mode
Master mode

/shrug.

[Delanath]

I don't know if that much of partitioning is necessary, but I certainly see nothing wrong with the way WoW has it split currently. Easy, normal, then hard should be sufficient for any person who wanted to experience end game content. Each of these levels would probably require testing before implementation so you'd probably encounter a level of diminishing returns where the amount of development time used in the creation of one level may be better spent on something else that would be experienced by more people.

---------- Post added 2013-03-17 at 10:27 PM ----------

Logical or not, it does feel cheapened. When any Joe Noob can see and kill the most supposedly bad ass bosses in the world, the thrill for a real raider working hard to get there and see them and kill them is greatly diminished.

Do you feel better if you receive recognition ingame with things like mounts, flair-gear, etc.?

[ShimmerSwirl]

I don't know if that much of partitioning is necessary, but I certainly see nothing wrong with the way WoW has it split currently. Easy, normal, then hard should be sufficient for any person who wanted to experience end game content. Each of these levels would probably require testing before implementation so you'd probably encounter a level of diminishing returns where the amount of development time used in the creation of one level may be better spent on something else that would be experienced by more people.

---------- Post added 2013-03-17 at 10:27 PM ----------



Do you feel better if you receive recognition ingame with things like mounts, flair-gear, etc.?

No not really. The reward for me is in just seeing the raid, knowing that its a achievement unto itself just bing inside and staring the scariest monsters in the world in the face. Having multiple modes kills the lore, it makes it feel just like entering any other ordinary leveling zone.

And as far as those examples go, the big difference is this is a multiplayer game. If I was playing multiplay Zelda and the other person was given a much easier path to see the same content im working hard to see, yes I would feel cheated.

The problem I see is too many people nowadays view these things as just a 'system', they think in terms of what makes practical, efficient sense. Think about it purely from a gaming point of view, think about lore and story and immersion. All these multiple modes really take the RPG out of MMORPG and turn into just a cheap little lootbox.

[Immitis]

No not really. The reward for me is in just seeing the raid, knowing that its a achievement unto itself just bing inside and staring the scariest monsters in the world in the face. Having multiple modes kills the lore, it makes it feel just like entering any other ordinary leveling zone.

And as far as those examples go, the big difference is this is a multiplayer game. If I was playing multiplay Zelda and the other person was given a much easier path to see the same content im working hard to see, yes I would feel cheated.

The problem I see is too many people nowadays view these things as just a 'system', they think in terms of what makes practical, efficient sense. Think about it purely from a gaming point of view, think about lore and story and immersion. All these multiple modes really take the RPG out of MMORPG and turn into just a cheap little lootbox.

so slightly easier versions of an encounter somehow breaks immersion more than killing the same thing over and over again? or a wolf dropping a sword bigger than its entire body? or seeing some other guy dressed up as so and so when you havent even seen so and so yet? or being only one of hundreds of "chosen guy who is teh awesome who is meh champiorn" or you farming a raid boss in order to create a weapon that is meant to kill said raid boss.

out of all the reasons for their not to be different difficulty levels immersion and story has to be the most idiotic thing ive ever heard, even "it makes meh feel good teh has the things you no can has" is a better excuse then immersion and story

[Delanath]

Think about it purely from a gaming point of view, think about lore and story and immersion. All these multiple modes really take the RPG out of MMORPG and turn into just a cheap little lootbox.

By this same argument having a non-Roleplay or PvE realm in a game would cheapen it due to their bastardization of lore, story, immersion. Afterall this game is built around two factions who feel they're entitled to a planet so by necessity if you saw someone of the opposing faction you'd try to take them out. Do different realms make the game a bore to play knowing that someone is playing differently than you would? Not experiencing the game in the same way you did (or will)?

Look. I too feel like cutting edge play should be rewarded, but I don't believe it should be at the expense of others. Storyline isn't something to be experienced by just a handful, this is an RPG afterall, it should be experienced by all. You, the elite raider, compete with other guilds on your server in normal and hard modes for bragging rights, achieves, mounts, and gear which you can show off in the trade district to all the people who won't be able to get them (Which means after a raid tier ends all of the vanity items, titles, etc. go away). It really is the fairest thing to do.

In order for this game to be a success many people need to play the game over a long period of time and feel rewarded doing so. That will keep people subbing/buying things in the store/whatever which will mean more content for people to be exposed to. Keeping people engrossed in compelling storyline is one inexpensive way to accomplish this.

What we need to find is a way to make people like you feel like you accomplished something. Because like i said, cutting edge play should be rewarded. I just don't know what a suitable reward would be since you're not into vanity items. The only thing you seem to gain satisfaction from is knowing that you completed something while others didn't.

[papajohn4]

when you play a game on hard do you feel cheated that some people out there are playing it on easy? if you choose to beat a legend of zelda game with only three hearts do you feel cheated when some guy beats it with all the hearts? when you beat the elite four with a ev/iv trained team of six pokemon when some little kid beats them with an ultra leveled charizard?

if you do you have some kind of psychological problem

there is a huge difference between single and MMO games. Some people indeed see the MMO games as single player games and they are a lot. I don't care if someone use a god mod in skyrim, but I do care if someone buy The One Ring in lotro.

No not really. The reward for me is in just seeing the raid, knowing that its a achievement unto itself just bing inside and staring the scariest monsters in the world in the face. Having multiple modes kills the lore, it makes it feel just like entering any other ordinary leveling zone.

I agree with this..even if I never managed to go to AQ40 and Naxramas and even if I never stepped into Black temple, the places was there and they were adding to the immersion..I knew there was some ultra dangerous places I maybe not ever see..these super bad vilains/monsters. Why should everybody kill Illidan?because they payed 15 euro?I pay 50 euro to the gym but my body is much worse than some people there(bad example I know...couldn't find any better )

Look. I too feel like cutting edge play should be rewarded, but I don't believe it should be at the expense of others. Storyline isn't something to be experienced by just a handful, this is an RPG afterall, it should be experienced by all.

First of all I want to say I am not a "cutting edge" player and I never seen the end raids of vanilla and TBC. But speaking of lore and storyline, do you really think that is good for the story that everyone go and kill this super evil monster that almost destroyed the world? You begin level 1 and all the lore is about some terrible creatures with amazing powers and you go max level, push a button, gather 24 more strangers and then go there push 3-4 buttons more with some afk people and you kill this super evil. Is this the end of the story you were waiting for? Are you satisfied for killing in that way the most dangerous creatures in the world? For me it is much better to see that some "mighty heroes" managed to go and kill that evil for me/for us...

The whole problem was that they should find a way to introduce everyone into the gear tredmill..and they did it by cheapen all the raids and bosses. They could find another way to do this, but then maybe they wouldn't have so many subscriptions. WOW is the best "single" player MMO outthere. You can kill all raid bosses without ever talk to anyone else or actively group with them.

[Djuntas]

Don't play MMO's if you dont have the time (20 hours a week minimum), that is just my POV. Casuals should go and play other types of games. Not like there is a lack of casual games. I'm just annoyed by the fact that, say inn wow it dosen't matter if you play 10 or 50 hours a week - The guy who play alot aint really progressing alot more. It didn't used to be like that in wow. Smart business move from Blizzard sure, but it dosen't cater to me. If I want to grind a rep, gear or something vanity let me do it at my own speed, not what the creaters think's are best. I was proud of my early exalted title inn wotlk, or getting Earthwarden as one of the first (first?) feral druids on my server back inn TBC.

I find what I've seen from this MMO to be pretty intriguing, hope it will be good.

[Airlick]

Don't play MMO's if you dont have the time (20 hours a week minimum), that is just my POV. Casuals should go and play other types of games. Not like there is a lack of casual games. I'm just annoyed by the fact that, say inn wow it dosen't matter if you play 10 or 50 hours a week - The guy who play alot aint really progressing alot more. It didn't used to be like that in wow. Smart business move from Blizzard sure, but it dosen't cater to me. If I want to grind a rep, gear or something vanity let me do it at my own speed, not what the creaters think's are best. I was proud of my early exalted title inn wotlk, or getting Earthwarden as one of the first (first?) feral druids on my server back inn TBC.

I find what I've seen from this MMO to be pretty intriguing, hope it will be good.

But it's casuals' money that drives games forward. If they weren't playing and paying, developers would likely be unable to create new, good content, or they would do so at a very slow pace. And to keep them playing, developers need to give them something interesting to do (sure, they can have fun questing, farming normal dungeons and doing achievements for a while, but ultimately they will be left with nothing to do in game, and at this point they will quit). Better think about what you wish.

[ShimmerSwirl]

But it's casuals' money that drives games forward. If they weren't playing and paying, developers would likely be unable to create new, good content, or they would do so at a very slow pace. And to keep them playing, developers need to give them something interesting to do (sure, they can have fun questing, farming normal dungeons and doing achievements for a while, but ultimately they will be left with nothing to do in game, and at this point they will quit). Better think about what you wish.

Wow did pretty good when it catered to the hardcore players back in van/bc.