[Megathread] Wildstar - Now F2P

[RoninaThorstone]

Wow did pretty good when it catered to the hardcore players back in van/bc.

So you want wildstar to fight for the left over scraps of WoW and Rift?
(more so Rift. Anytime anyone says "I miss vanilla / tbc" people tell them to go raid in rift)

Do you secretly want wildstar to fail?

[Elim Garak]

Wow did pretty good when it catered to the hardcore players back in van/bc.

WoW never catered to hardcore players, even in Vanilla. It was somewhat hardcore in some places at the beginning and after each patch it was becoming less and less hardcore. BC was a major shift toward casuals. Remember Badges? LFG Interface Tool? Voice Chat? Karazhan?

[RoninaThorstone]

WoW never catered to hardcore players, even in Vanilla. It was somewhat hardcore in some places at the beginning and after each patch it was becoming less and less hardcore. BC was a major shift toward casuals. Remember Badges? LFG Interface Tool? Voice Chat? Karazhan?

And ZA
and raid cauldrons. (zomg made prep so much easier)
Also, you didn't have to stack resistances in tbc like you did in vanilla.

[Darksoldierr]

And ZA
and raid cauldrons. (zomg made prep so much easier)
Also, you didn't have to stack resistances in tbc like you did in vanilla.

Expect the mother in BT and the void in TK

[Dezerte]

I remember when WoW was new, and was compared to Lineage 2, and how casual WoW was compared to it. *shrug*

[Elim Garak]

Expect the mother in BT and the void in TK

Voidreaver didn't need any resists. Cept for tanks, which is pretty normal. The first boss in SS required that of tanks too.
As opposed to full MC (fire) and lots of bosses in AQ40 (nature) for EVERYONE, not just tanks.

[papajohn4]

So you want wildstar to fight for the left over scraps of WoW and Rift?
(more so Rift. Anytime anyone says "I miss vanilla / tbc" people tell them to go raid in rift)

Do you secretly want wildstar to fail?

but Hardcores create "content" for the casuals also..do you believe that wow would have succeed if there wasn't hardcore players around? All the theorycrafting to give people rotations and stat priorities, talent builds, addons, dungeon/raid guides, quality guilds that can carry some casuals friends, e.t.c. are created by hardcores and I think that all these is a major lift for the game. Imagine wow without all these..

Casuals(I am casual player) may pretend that they don't need hardcores but the truth is they cannot play without them.

To avoid misunderstanding, this is what I mean hardcore/casual (nothing to do with actual skill):

Hardcore: gamer who take the game very seriously and dedicate to it with lot of time
casual: gamer who have limited time or he is not willing to dedicate lot of time into a game

[RoninaThorstone]

but Hardcores create "content" for the casuals also..do you believe that wow would have succeed if there wasn't hardcore players around? All the theorycrafting to give people rotations and stat priorities, talent builds, addons, dungeon/raid guides, quality guilds that can carry some casuals friends, e.t.c. are created by hardcores and I think that all these is a major lift for the game. Imagine wow without all these..

Casuals(I am casual player) may pretend that they don't need hardcores but the truth is they cannot play without them.

To avoid misunderstanding, this is what I mean hardcore/casual (nothing to do with actual skill):

Hardcore: gamer who take the game very seriously and dedicate to it with lot of time
casual: gamer who have limited time or he is not willing to dedicate lot of time into a game

There are people who do addon support, guides, ect for any game.
There are probably EJ-eske forums for wizards 101.

That's not what we are talking about at all.
We are talking about the people who have the time AND skill to do something like Naxx40, which is about 1-3% of the total population.
Should end game content be designed for 1-3% over content for the rest of the player base.

[Kelimbror]

It's amazing how the people saying that other people having fun ruins their fun, that there should only be hard content and no way to satisfy casual players are the exact same people rallying to the subscription model. Coincidence? I think not.

Clearly they get their kicks on exclusion. What a sad way to live life. Do us all a favor and leave this game alone so it has a chance to succeed instead of being relegated to the garbage bin because too many vocal people wrongly misled a developer that subscriptions, lack of tiered end game, and no QoL features are going to trigger a nostalgic revolution.

We see how well that's worked out recently

[Elim Garak]

Hey, generalizations are bad.

I prefer subscription in games that I like. It keeps most of the kids out of the game. I hate kids in online games.
But I'm not hardcore - I'm a casual player who loves QoL features and doesn't have a boner off tiered end game.

[Delanath]

Is this the end of the story you were waiting for? Are you satisfied for killing in that way the most dangerous creatures in the world? For me it is much better to see that some "mighty heroes" managed to go and kill that evil for me/for us...

Yes, at the very least thats what your 15 bucks a month should get you. End game for casuals shouldn't be an endless rep grind or dailies, thats the fastest way to boredom and eventually lost subs.

The whole problem was that they should find a way to introduce everyone into the gear tredmill..and they did it by cheapen all the raids and bosses. They could find another way to do this, but then maybe they wouldn't have so many subscriptions. WOW is the best "single" player MMO outthere. You can kill all raid bosses without ever talk to anyone else or actively group with them.

The difference between LFR gear and heroic gear in WoW is insane. Also, LFR is no longer used for gearing up your raiding main due to a release schedule similar to heroic. There is no gear treadmill anymore, so this isn't a problem.

[Darksoldierr]

Voidreaver didn't need any resists. Cept for tanks, which is pretty normal. The first boss in SS required that of tanks too.
As opposed to full MC (fire) and lots of bosses in AQ40 (nature) for EVERYONE, not just tanks.

I dont know, when the void boss was released, all of us had to get arcane rez gear, same with mother and the shadow rez gear. And in MC you really didn't needed FR at all. The t1 items gave resistance and you could get potions + totems. The only heavy fire rez bossfight i remember was vael in BW, maybe firemaw to. Everything else went down without gearing up with focus on FR, maybe ragnaros, but im not sure about that one.

I give you that one, you had to get NR gear for multiple bosses in AQ40, we had to farm rings and trinkets from Maraudon's purple wing from the Flower and Water Elemental boss.

I remember farming and making shitload fire absorb potions, but i dont remember activly gearing up for FR items against Ragnaros

[Elim Garak]

I dont know, when the void boss was released, all of us had to get arcane rez gear, same with mother and the shadow rez gear. And in MC you really didn't needed FR at all. The t1 items gave resistance and you could get potions + totems. The only heavy fire rez bossfight i remember was vael, nothing else. Everything else went down without gearing up much into FR, maybe ragnaros, but im not sure about.

If you position the raid properly on Voidreaver and everyone stays out of shit - only tanks need Arcane Resist.
Mother required Shadow resist due to fight mechanics. Shadow Link of "Who runs in the same direction as me".
And in MC you needed fire resist even on TRASH. Due to nasty Fire DOTS. There were a couple of bosses that didn't require it. Most bosses required it, by placing a nasty fire curse on everyone that increased Fire Damage received or by directly damaging with fire. And on Ragnaros you needed FR and FR potions. I don't remember how much FR you needed to be OK. Somewhere around 200 I guess, 300 for tanks.
And no t1 items provided next to nothing in FR department. We have to do quests that provided green items with FR, farm dungeons to get FR gear and of course craft it. I had two sets of gear for MC and some bosses in BWL, as a hunter. And BWL, the requirement to have a certain cloak to even get to the last boss and then to survive its landing procedure... and the only way to get said cloak is to craft it using raid materials (like a patch of skin from Ony's ass)

[Darksoldierr]

That certain cloack was needed from Ony to Nefarian trough the 3 dragon boss in BWL for the tanks, Ragnaros maybe true, but for MC trash and other bosses? No, you didn't needed much at all. The only time trash was tough for us was probably the first 3-4 MC runs we did.
I could just not remember well, so lets leave it like this and not derail the thread much.

[Delanath]

It's amazing how the people saying that other people having fun ruins their fun, that there should only be hard content and no way to satisfy casual players are the exact same people rallying to the subscription model. Coincidence? I think not.

Nah, I'm a fan of the subscription model with limited f2p material and I definitely don't approve of the idea that content as central to the game's success as endgame storyline should be limited to only a few percent of the population.

Do us all a favor and leave this game alone so it has a chance to succeed instead of being relegated to the garbage bin because too many vocal people wrongly misled a developer that subscriptions, lack of tiered end game, and no QoL features are going to trigger a nostalgic revolution.

I think you may be putting too much stock in how developers entertain the masses and their ideas when it comes to certain topics. Remember, these are people who work in the industry and also play in the industry, they don't live in a bubble and only do what we want. Our petty squabbles probably don't mean that much in the eyes of the developers because they're probably having these conversations daily themselves. If it ever gets one-sided they might be swayed, but I have a feeling they have so many people working on this that every thought we have on a hot button issue is easily found within the company.

And i wouldn't worry too much about anything ruining the game. They've said they want to make this game immediately accessible to as many people as possible; that means many QoL features like dungeon finders, AOE looting, etc. They'll have hardmodes with cool rewards and game prestige rather than lock the majority of people out of content to appease a small minority's inferiority complex. We already know they plan on multiple levels of play, right?

[Kelimbror]

NaI think you may be putting too much stock in how developers entertain the masses and their ideas when it comes to certain topics. Remember, these are people who work in the industry and also play in the industry, they don't live in a bubble and only do what we want. Our petty squabbles probably don't mean that much in the eyes of the developers because they're probably having these conversations daily themselves. If it ever gets one-sided they might be swayed, but I have a feeling they have so many people working on this that every thought we have on a hot button issue is easily found within the company.

So explain to me how this just happened with SWTOR...since they are 'people who work in the industry and also play in the industry'. So while you say it won't happen, it just did happen with another company. Additionally, they have invited special people to little parties where they get their input on the game and so on. Seems a lot of trouble to go to if they don't plan on listening.


Unfortunately these seem to mostly be the people I reference below.

And i wouldn't worry too much about anything ruining the game. They've said they want to make this game immediately accessible to as many people as possible; that means many QoL features like dungeon finders, AOE looting, etc. They'll have hardmodes with cool rewards and game prestige rather than lock the majority of people out of content to appease a small minority's inferiority complex. We already know they plan on multiple levels of play, right?

The QoL features like a cross server dungeon finder are being practically protested by people on their *official* boards. Once again I point at SWTOR, where the same thing happened. Hopefully these guys know to not listen to their 'fans', because they really just want to be special snowflakes in a sea of secial snowflakes in a world of a rapidly failing MMO that had better dare not take any pointers from WoW.

No, they haven't given any official comment on payment models. But just like people are rallying against the good features, the same people are likewise rallying to demand it be a subscription only because "F2P and B2P games suck".

[RoninaThorstone]

So explain to me how this just happened with SWTOR...

While what happened with swtor happened to many other MMOs that have launched over the past 5 years, I really feel like that was the first time we got to see it happen step by step so visibly.
Remember warhammer online? It took several months to find out that the dev team thought the game was an unfinished POS. I mean, those guys were also doing the EA hype tour and half of them were neck deep in their cups. At the time, we had no idea they were drinking away their sorrow.
But with swtor, we heard a lot of grumblings.
Maybe its because people are more willing to blog about their jobs or post anonymous "I just moved to austin tx for bioware and got fired 2 weeks later." on things like glass ceiling.
But, we can only hope that these guys are moving at the pace they want, developing a game that they've properly market tested (I am not sold on that yet), with the majority of their players in mind.

[Elim Garak]

Please don't tell me that you think that SWTOR "failed" because it was subscription based...

[RoninaThorstone]

Please don't tell me that you think that SWTOR "failed" because it was subscription based...

Swtor failed for so very many reasons.
It launching as subscription only was one reason among many.

(edit: Also, I wouldn't say it 'failed' failed but by mmo champ standards it did)

[SirRobin]

But with swtor, we heard a lot of grumblings.

I do think that has more to do with the evolving state of social media in the public eye. There are just so many ways for things to leak nowadays and, like with Maxis's "exaggerations" being exposed, more and more folks are figuring out that once you put it on the internet? It really actually is there forever.