1. #7681
    Quote Originally Posted by ShimmerSwirl View Post
    This forum does have a lot of WoW players: mainly the entitled, casual WoW players who started in Wotlk and later, the majority of whom have never played EvE and do understand the benefits of this type of system.
    That's one heck of a generalization there...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bardarian View Post
    The problem I have with movement comes into play mainly on jumping puzzles. My character will land from jumping down to a ledge and then just sort of... slide. It's really cumbersome.
    Yea that would totally cause me to twitch and fall off the ledge lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    I was a bit on the fence and would have absolutely picked it up if it were B2P/F2P. Now I'm leaning towards waiting 3-6 months to see how things pan out.
    Yea, and the issue for them is if too many people decide to do a wait and see, mostly because that is based on past experiences with other games. But I can't really blame you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Very well stated...as so many pro subscription people like to toss out the 'meal at McDonald's' (won't even go into how they judge people not paying subscriptions as fat, lazy, and poor...but anywho) as some sort of proof that a game is worth it. When the best you can do is compare an MMO to a cheap burger or a crappy, overpriced movie ticket...you don't really have much of an argument.
    I am not sure why but this made me laugh. Also most of my apprehension is due to I don't have any trust in the playerbase to sell the tokens for anything resembling a fair price. It'll be like it is in every game where a few people will stock up gold and will control the market.

    Quote Originally Posted by jearle View Post
    I'd be curious to know if you care to share how much money you have spent in the GW2 cash shop since you started playing?
    I was actually just thinking I should total up the money I spent vs hours played for both wow and gw2. Sort of scared to though lol. In the case of wow, also would need to include money spent on pets/mounts and server transfers, etc. Plus I am probably going to be spending way to much on GW2 tomorrow with the sale and stuff >< I'll post it if I ever get around to it

  2. #7682
    For me this model doesn't appeal, my budget is such that I just can't do a constant tap of money on more then one game. Yes I know all you haters will chime in on me paying for my WoW but, as others have said I have a huge investment in the game and I'm not speaking of money. It's my time, over all these years (I have played since closed beta in June of 2004) I have given a part of my life to the game and while it's never been perfect (no game ever will be) the relationships I've created, the memories I have, this keeps me playing it. My best friend that I met playing the game and the like.

    I just don't have the money to do two sub games, it's a reality of my existence at this point. A model more akin to GW2 would have suited me better. This model coupled with the release date pushback (which I admire them for doing) has cooled my interest for the game. As others have mentioned the CREDD model, using in game money to buy time, requires that someone buy the time/aka CREDD first. That won't/can't be me, so right off the bat there has to be people with extra money above the sub to spend. Next what this does is it puts an ever increasing demanded time/play requirement on me if I somehow want to "buy" my way out of my sub. Inflation will climb and thus the amount of time that I MUST put in will increase.

    Backing me into a corner is not a way to make me want to play a game, we already are backed into a corner every damn day with our jobs. I have to say, my initial reaction to this model was beyond uncomfortable, bordering on nausea. I now have a combination of discomfort and displeasure with Mr Gaffney and the studio in general. For someone who has said a lot of things right (for me) in the past with regard to how they are designing the game. This speaks to me of really NOT listening to how players feel.
    Last edited by Mmoplayer111; 2013-08-19 at 09:13 PM.

  3. #7683
    Blademaster Fenth's Avatar
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    I was looking over this for a few minutes and i'm sorry if this was already asked. How does CREDD solve gold farming if people are going to buy it for gold? I mean if you have the money to buy the gold then i'm sure you can just buy the CREDD. However, I don't think it's gonna solve anything $20 real money = a lot of gold to a lot of people...Just my opinion I was really confused about the whole thing :\
    I'll do something witty and clever in this box one day...

  4. #7684
    High Overlord syar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Very well stated...as so many pro subscription people like to toss out the 'meal at McDonald's' (won't even go into how they judge people not paying subscriptions as fat, lazy, and poor...but anywho) as some sort of proof that a game is worth it. When the best you can do is compare an MMO to a cheap burger or a crappy, overpriced movie ticket...you don't really have much of an argument.
    If you have time to whine about it costing money than you probably want to play it . And if you do 15$ is not a crazy high fee. I don't care about EVE online at all, but do I go to the EVE forums and make posts about how it does not worth my money? No.I don't.

  5. #7685
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenth View Post
    I was looking over this for a few minutes and i'm sorry if this was already asked. How does CREDD solve gold farming if people are going to buy it for gold? I mean if you have the money to buy the gold then i'm sure you can just buy the CREDD. However, I don't think it's gonna solve anything $20 real money = a lot of gold to a lot of people...Just my opinion I was really confused about the whole thing :\
    It doesn't solve gold farming, the idea is that it will lessen third party gold buying, because you can basically safely buy the CREDD and sell it to in game players for gold.

    The funny thing about this whole setup is it will surely get abused one way or the other and it will not stop illegal gold buying, but may simply create a new market to abuse.

    CREDD costs 20 bucks from Carbine, this will have some market price, for instance 20k gold, which basically translates to 1k gold per dollar. The gold sellers will simply undercut this price and illegally sell gold at 50 cents per 1k. Not only that, they could potentially play both sides of the market (if it allows you to) and buy up CREDD at low prices and resell for high.

    I am guessing they have some rules about how you can buy this CREDD stuff, because there will be people who master the market and will play it
    since it is usually the best way to make currency in any game is to successfully play the Auction House/Trading Post/Bazaar tool and I usually try to do this until i get extremely bored of it.

  6. #7686
    Quote Originally Posted by Mothhive View Post
    I know many people will disagree, and people often compare sub fees to things like going to the movies or having a decent meal in order to show what good value it is, but if you compare it to other games instead for a fairer comparison, those years where I pretty much played just 1 game, doing the same thing over and over, I could have played 20+ full priced games, many more if you factor in Indie games, Steam Sales, Humble bundles, etc. Now we also have a plethora of F2P or B2P games of a really high standard, some of which put out content at a faster pace than these P2P games, and it's incredibly hard to justify paying a sub fee when you do not get a superior service or experience.
    But if there is a plethora of "High Quality" free games why everyone waiting for the next "high quality" game and also want it to be f2p? I used the word MMO Tourists before and for good reason...There are many people who jump from MMO to MMO to play for few months and thats why they want them free..although I don't know how good this is for the company..sure, a low quality MMO can win money from the 2-3 month tourists, but a high quality MMO will make you stay there and devote time and effort to it and make friends, join guilds, e.t.c.

    Quote Originally Posted by syar View Post
    If you have time to whine about it costing money than you probably want to play it . And if you do 15$ is not a crazy high fee. I don't care about EVE online at all, but do I go to the EVE forums and make posts about how it does not worth my money? No.I don't.
    Excellent point..
    Last edited by papajohn4; 2013-08-19 at 09:32 PM.
    The trick of selling a FFA-PvP MMO is creating the illusion among gankers that they are respectable fighters while protecting them from respectable fights, as their less skilled half would be massacred and quit instead of “HTFU” as they claim.

  7. #7687
    I am not sure if mmo tourists care more about a game being B2P or F2P than the average consumer. The people that go from MMO to MMO are stuck in a hype cycle and its' really the hype that they want to play rather than the game. It would be nicer if that hype cost them less, but even the cost question becomes a part of the cycle. One month its F2P is the future, next month is Subs are the only honest way,and then the next month is all subs are a scam because everything is F2P anyways.

    Basically, for the mmo vagabond to have a solid philosophy and view on what an MMO should cost would require a level of reason that they just don't care to have.

  8. #7688
    Quote Originally Posted by papajohn4 View Post
    But if there is a plethora of "High Quality" free games why everyone waiting for the next "high quality" game and also want it to be f2p? I used the word MMO Tourists before and for good reason...There are many people who jump from MMO to MMO to play for few months and thats why they want them free..although I don't know how good this is for the company..sure, a low quality MMO can win money from the 2-3 month tourists, but a high quality MMO will make you stay there and devote time and effort to it and make friends, join guilds, e.t.c.



    Excellent point..
    more like MMO Terrorists amirite.

    There are plenty of things to make you not want to play a game (bad gameplay, buggy, etc), and if a payment model is one of them good for all of you. Don't play it then. But don't expect to convert people who have been paying subs for a long time (Starting with UO for me) into believing your Farmville style payment model is best for a AAA game.

  9. #7689
    Quote Originally Posted by waddlez View Post
    Farmville style payment model is best for a AAA game.
    It's not Farmville style. That's they Zynga model, a model which gates play by limiting the amount of activities you can do within a given time period, and then forcing you to either wait till your "activity points" recharge (slowly), or pay to get more of them.

    The Zynga version of the F2P model used in countless social/mobile games is lightyears different from the model used in major Western MMO's.

  10. #7690
    Quote Originally Posted by papajohn4 View Post
    But if there is a plethora of "High Quality" free games why everyone waiting for the next "high quality" game and also want it to be f2p? I used the word MMO Tourists before and for good reason...There are many people who jump from MMO to MMO to play for few months and thats why they want them free..although I don't know how good this is for the company..sure, a low quality MMO can win money from the 2-3 month tourists, but a high quality MMO will make you stay there and devote time and effort to it and make friends, join guilds, e.t.c.
    Why are people waiting for the next one? There are a few reasons.

    MMOs don't have unlimited content. Even the subscription based ones that artificially extend the content with grind to keep you paying are eventually burned through.

    People like variety. Games may add more zones, abilities, etc, over the years, but they're still pretty much the same game they always were with a few extras tacked on now and then. It gets boring after a while.

    Innovation. People want to see what new ideas will be brought to the table by new games, and there are some big changes being made currently to try and win the attention of gamers.


    Also, if the people you are referring to in a derogatory manner are MMO Tourists, then surely you must be one of the MMO Locals. Looking down your noses at the temporary visitors without whom your game would be struggling, laughing at their attempts to learn the local customs and fit in, treating them with disdain because they wont settle down, not knowing they have roots and friends elsewhere, all the while secretly jealous of their lifestyle full of new experiences and wonder, while you go about your humdrum daily routine. Stuck in a rut. Too scared to take a risk. No way out...

  11. #7691
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    It's not Farmville style. That's they Zynga model, a model which gates play by limiting the amount of activities you can do within a given time period, and then forcing you to either wait till your "activity points" recharge (slowly), or pay to get more of them.

    The Zynga version of the F2P model used in countless social/mobile games is lightyears different from the model used in major Western MMO's.
    Then why in GW2 am I stuck with an awful amount of storage space unless I pay up, gating my ability to play more until I pay.

  12. #7692
    waddlez, aren't you a new player to gw2? You should have plenty of storage with the wallet feature.

    Anyways, I bought my extra bank space with gold. =D

  13. #7693
    Quote Originally Posted by waddlez View Post
    Then why in GW2 am I stuck with an awful amount of storage space unless I pay up, gating my ability to play more until I pay.
    You're not prevented from playing, that's your choice. There is literally nothing stopping you from continuing to play and not looting things. Like, at all.

    The Zynga model literally stops you from playing, as you are unable to do anything until you've saved up enough "activity points" to do the next activity.

  14. #7694
    Quote Originally Posted by waddlez View Post
    Then why in GW2 am I stuck with an awful amount of storage space unless I pay up, gating my ability to play more until I pay.
    How exactly does storage space prevent you from playing?

    Also, all crafting materials are stored in a separate area of the account vault, up to a 250 stack of each type, and there are more than 350 different crafting mats you can store there, making the actual storage you get much more than most MMOs give you by default.

    Also, you don't even have to pay real money to expand storage space. You buy more space with gems, and gems can be bought with gold.

  15. #7695
    Quote Originally Posted by zed zebes View Post
    waddlez, aren't you a new player to gw2? You should have plenty of storage with the wallet feature.

    Anyways, I bought my extra bank space with gold. =D
    And I like that I can trade gold for gems, but as a lowbie it is impossible to get enough.

  16. #7696
    Quote Originally Posted by waddlez View Post
    And I like that I can trade gold for gems, but as a lowbie it is impossible to get enough.
    I never had any issue with inventory with GW2 and I haven't bought any extra slots.

    Are you breaking down / vendoring stuff? It sounds like you aren't vendoring enough if you are having gold issues.
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  17. #7697
    Well, I may have to avoid all Wildstar communities like the plague until the commotion dies down and returns to where it was before.

    As for me, I'm glad it's subscription-only. I want to be able to play one low flat rate every month and have access to everything that they develop, regardless of whether or not I partake to the fullest. "Optional subscriptions" like what RIFT and TERA does is terrible in this matter, because even though I'm paying for a subscription, I don't suddenly get the ability to buy all the shop items with in-game gold. Instead, I'm now paying a subscription and have to pay more if I want what's on the shop.

    Also, to the people that are pro-F2P, know this: most games that were good in recent times, but went F2P, did so because they needed to payback investors, and subscriptions won't do that fast enough. Transitioning to F2P allows for a large cash grab that they can then pay off those investors, but by this point they are now stuck with F2P and must go with it.

    Blizzard, CCP Games, even Square Enix show that subscription only works if the company behind it is privately funding the game, not investors.

  18. #7698
    I don't get why so many people are making this blatant statement that "WS has a sub". Did you miss the second part about CRED? You can play for free, and yes you have to play to earn the gold, but if you don't want to play then you have bigger issues to solve.

    The good I see from this system:

    -non-segregated world: everyone has access to all the same content and plays in the same world. No divided community and differing content access based on payment choice.

    -No gimmicky tactics to drive people into a cash shop

    -Gold farming potential is reduced

    -Biggest reason that no one discusses, which is the strong suit of EvE: WS will be an economy driven game, gold will be an extremely valuable resource and the world will be populated even at level cap with people out there hunting for gold through various means. This to me is the single biggest combatant to the "sit in city and que" syndrome that is common in too many MMOs now.

    -

    *~To change one's life: Start immediately. Do it flamboyantly.~*

  19. #7699
    Quote Originally Posted by ShimmerSwirl View Post
    I don't get why so many people are making this blatant statement that "WS has a sub".
    Because it does. CREDD is a transferrable subscription, just the same as PLEX in EVE, Kronos in EQ2, and Chronoscrolls in Tera. Someone is paying that subscription (+$5) so you can buy it in game and use it to extend your subscription time.

    I'm not saying it's a bad model, quite the contrary. I think that if you're going to use a subscription model than having a system like this is awesome.

    However, I have my doubts about whether this is the best game to use a model like this, that's all.

  20. #7700
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    However, I have my doubts about whether this is the best game to use a model like this, that's all.
    I think it will come down to how good their elder games are, and they haven't shown much of that at all. If they make a great endgame with meaningful progression that people can get into, whether it be through raids, housing, pvp, the world or whatever, I think people will pay the sub.

    *~To change one's life: Start immediately. Do it flamboyantly.~*

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