[Megathread] Wildstar - Now F2P

[zito]

Nope they havnt. They still got 40-man content left.

40 man is broken so it's not killable content.

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No, I'm not. I'm well aware.

But you're trying FAR too hard to paint DnT as these scrubby failures because you're working the, "No True Scotsman" angle so fiercely.

It'll be funny to watch you say the same things about people in Engima who have given largely the same type of feedback.

catch 21, anarch is in enigma!

[Anthony3187]

Games like CSGO and Wildstar have a difficulty that is probably more RNG-like.. Simpler to think about but difficult to repeat the same task every single time every single fight.

Games like WoW and LoL have tons and tons of memorizing to do.. but once you do that you can always feel "skilled" and have repeated success usually.


People love feeling skilled, but not everyone is an amazing twitch gamer.
Because of this, people love games that require tons of in-game knowledge to offset their lack of twitch skills. (WoW/Moba players)


(I know the top end Moba players are great twitch players too, but anyone can be pretty decent at a moba once they've learned all the champions/heroes)

[Nellise]

You're clearly underestimating how fierce and brutal the competition at that level is.

Remember how Ensidia was formed?

So they were nobodies, but are still good enough to join the world #1 guild?

[Edge-]

It really isn't, because these guilds are just trying to ride on the coattails of past glory without actually having the same composition anymore.

So not having the exact same raid setup despite having many of the same core folks is a detriment, while forming a brand new guild with no prior relationships is somehow a boon?

I'm not coming even remotely close to understanding the logic behind your argument with this. Like, these are guilds that have proven that they can complete extremely difficult content across multiple games. Is WildStar that "OH MY FUCKING GOD SO TOTALLY HARDCORE THAT YOUR BODY WILL LITERALLY TURN INTO DIAMONDS YOU WILL BE THAT HARDDDDD!!!!!!!"?

Most of the time when such a well-known guild tries to do a come-back they won't even have 5-10% of the original players that made the guildname well known in the first place.

What if they're not "coming back" but simply moving games?

And by that virtue, would we not discount pro-teams in esports that have big roster overhauls between seasons? I mean, it's not unheard of for big roster changes to happen, even mid season. They don't always work, but they don't always fail either. So again, still not understanding your argument beyond attempting to rationalize something with faulty logic and arguments.

And they're basically just like every other random guild out there that starts out with the intention of being hardcore, without the actual experience.

Except that...you know, many of them have a core group that's played together for years that already have a relationship and tons of experience...you know...that.

Your mistake is thus clearly believing that these topguilds are those same people.

I don't think I implied that the guild doesn't change members from game to game or during their time in a single game. However, it's not uncommon at all for there to many a core group of folks who either rotate in and out or simply stick around. That's a level of stability that fresh guilds don't have.

Though again, you've made literally no real arguments as to why a fresh guild has some kind of significant advantage over established guilds with folks (not the whole guild) who have years of experience and great relationships looking to fill their ranks.

Honestly, your arguments sound like a whole lot of rationalisms to try to support your views rather than shifting your views to accommodate any kind of present evidence.

[zito]

The bosses are not even hard, the final boss the lava wurm thing for the 20 man raid it's literally kill adds when spawn and nuke boss. The only thing that changes is at 10% the platform gets destroyed and you gotta run in a circle to not get hit by his breathe and spam that aoe heals.

No way this game is too hardcore for the hardcore. What a full load of bull shit.

More like, they finished the "hardcore" and leaving the game because they are done since there isn't anything to do since 40 mans are broken.

[Gray_Matter]

Because it's the exception not the norm, we have to go out that in normal circumstances people do them.

Also you still have to do things to deal with people its' not just the attunement that takes care of everything Dead, so don't act so silly as if you don't have to deal with applications, check the writing style, the content and go over a conversation and so on, it just creates a barrier that helps.

We accept people without dungeons fully done but having them done even partially translates into effort made before applying.

This reminds me of the blog post by a bloke that's running a large business in the US. His company started using one of the online job filter companies. He said he can't get through the filters to join his own company as he is not qualified enough.

If it is just a way to filter the applications then I would go back to it being completely useless. Looking at how the person is geared and how they play would tell you far more about the persons capabilities than if they are attuned or not. I could pay a couple of hundred dollars, pay for a bunch of silver boosts and AH gear and apply to your guild looking like a million bucks but be completely useless. You wouldn't know that I had bought the boosts. Bovinity on the other hand (assuming he is a first class player) may be struggling to find a good group to get his silver runs there is a good chance you would miss out because he didn't get past the first round of recruitment.

I remember raiding in another game and the pugs would have these lofty item level and achievement requirements. You would get to the first boss and all hell would break loose because there would be 3 or 4 people playing like idiots. A quick armory on the failing players would reveal bad enchants, no gems and only one kill of the boss which was the week before. If the raid leader had decided to vet the players properly in the first place instead of using arbitary filters then everything would have been much better. These pugs then either died a horrible death or turned into good runs if the remaining good players could call on a couple of mates who were probably way under the item level asked for but were quality players.

[Edge-]

That is just not my personal experience with guilds like that who try to go across multiple different games. Even the core group usually ends up being wildly different, because many of the people playing the other game don't want to come over to the new game.

Then what are you basing it off of? You keep making these claims without providing any evidence to support your arguments. You keep saying one thing without every showing examples of it happening with any consistency, or even at all.

[zito]

You're welcome to try and show me that the guild composition or core group composition of Death & Taxes in Wildstar are the same people that made the guildname famous in the first place.

See now you are dodging the question. She doesn't have to do anything. You are the one making claims that they are not the same people. Do either back it up or talk about something else

[Nellise]

Fresh guilds also don't have an advantage at all. It's just that people with a hardcore mindset usually don't stick around on a less succesful ship. So pre-creating a guild often won't be able to stand up against the temptation of your x best raiders to make a guild with the y best raiders of another guild. It's how most world top guilds are made, they rarely ever are pre-created guilds unless they hold some significant advantage such as beta raiding experience. They usually are the result of the best players ditching their previous guilds and converging to make a higher performing one instead.

So US #2/World #3 is not a high performing guild in your mind? High standards....

[Edge-]

And Edge- is making the claim that they are the same coregroup across multiple games.

I'm making my unsubstantiated claim in response to your unsubstantiated claim : 3

[zito]

And Edge- is making the claim that they are the same coregroup across multiple games. As far as I'm concerned I'm not nearly interested or invested enough in the topic to do the effort into researching the background of that particular guild. I've got plenty of years of my own experience regarding the subject, so I'm not particularly inclined to put effort into doing 'theoretical' research when I've already got the practical experience.

I don't recall edge making the claim that it is the exact core group. However if you are not going to put in the effort to back up your claims with your experiences of decades of raiding (remember this?) then why would you ask someone else to do the same. You are literally just dodging the bullet to try and shove the whole situation under the rug.

So again either back up the claim or shut up and talk about something else. Let me remind you, you brought up the whole debacle

[Ellixen]

I don't recall edge making the claim that it is the exact core group. However if you are not going to put in the effort to back up your claims with your experiences of decades of raiding (remember this?) then why would you ask someone else to do the same. You are literally just dodging the bullet to try and shove the whole situation under the rug.

So again either back up the claim or shut up and talk about something else. Let me remind you, you brought up the whole debacle

So.... confirmed death and taxes make exile's most wanted video????

[Edge-]

That is fine. It's just that because of my own experiences I'm going to have to disagree with your claim.

I'm fine with agreeing to disagree.

So you're making purely anecdotal claims at truth and expecting others to believe you and take you seriously? Because that's not going to go over well if you're trying to convince anyone of anything.

[Nellise]

We'll have to agree to disagree about the DnT situation. I believe I wasn't even the one that tried to relate my experiences to anything regarding DnT in the first place.

These are your own words from less than 2 hours ago, holy crap: "I think they were just a fluke-guild like Nihilum that didn't really have the proper leadership to survive in raidcontent as intense as Wildstar. It's all fine and dandy to try and create a guild before the game even launched, but in my experience most of them don't survive and the dynamics within the game itself will be stronger than the bonds of pre-created guilds."

[Gray_Matter]

I don't recall edge making the claim that it is the exact core group. However if you are not going to put in the effort to back up your claims with your experiences of decades of raiding (remember this?) then why would you ask someone else to do the same. You are literally just dodging the bullet to try and shove the whole situation under the rug.

So again either back up the claim or shut up and talk about something else. Let me remind you, you brought up the whole debacle

I really have to remember Anarch's method of debating. Make some wild outlandish claims and when anyone says they are not true then tell them to prove that they are not true

[hrugner]

Just got back from watching Guardians of the Galaxy, and am happy to have some more corny space opera to play at now that I'm home. It's been a bit weird playing in a game that looks so much like Invader Zim or Lilo and Stitch, but I think it's starting to grow on me.

[zito]

Nothing like banjo kazooie. DON'T YOU DARE BRING ONE OF THE GREATEST GAMES IN HISTORY (banjo kazooie) AS A COMPARISON HERE. Banjo kazooie deserves more then that.

[Gray_Matter]

Maybe if I could win the elections by putting such effort into a message board I would bother to substantiate all my claims and opinions.

Maybe you should go back and look at the link in your sig as this statement is so at odds with your claimed personality, it's scary.

IMHO There are a few aspects to being successful at serious raiding:

1) You need to be part of a good group.
2) You need to be able to learn quickly from your mistakes. Basically learning the mechanics of the fights.
3) You need to prepare properly for the encounters.
4) You need a certain amount of dexterity.
5) RNG and gear do come into play. A weapon giving a player a 15% advantage over other players will certainly help that group, as an example.

Some games will require more dexterity than others. The mechanics will also be different (and the same). Good players will be able to learn the mechanics and prepare properly regardless of the game. If they were strong in one game they are likely to be strong in another. They might not enjoy the game, that doesn't mean that they are not serious or not good at the game, it just means that they don't find it fun. It would be very easy to design an encounter that has very little tolerance for mistakes that almost no one can beat. e.g. Hard enrage at a specific time, force all the players to jump every second, 4 equal size groups doing almost identical damage, etc. That doesn't make the encounter a good one, or even hard, it just has onerous requirements. There is a difference.

[Post]

But I also recognize that playing the content in this game is a lot more exhausting than in other games, just because the combat is faster paced, smoother and feels more involved.

This sentence basically sums up the post. It's an incredibly thinly veiled "I'm better than you." While ignoring that the entire thread, people have been saying that difficulty is not the issue.

[hrugner]

Indeed. My only complaint is that the double jump isn't a true double jump like in most platformers. It would have made for some AWESOME jumping puzzle building. As it is, it's just sort of a "jump extender" more than anything.

Yeah, it ads a little bit by allowing for two well timed jump presses to get the maximum jump possible, but without setting direction of the jump on button press much of the possible challenge is rubbed off. It's still fun, and the low gravity and luftite (no idea how to spell it, wind focus crystals) areas are cool, and I like how much mounted speed can effect jumping distances; but I hope some day an mmo bites the bullet and really focuses on platforming for the sake of variety if nothing else. Wildstar's platforming is probably about at the difficulty level of someone who isn't really into platformers though.