[Megathread] Wildstar - Now F2P

[Tidezen]

I haven't followed Carbine's claims, but I'm unaware of any statements saying there would be a separate gear bracket for solo play. As it stands, there are essentially two different types of gear: PvE gear and PvP gear. As you stated, this is the same way that WoW currently divides their gear. In Wildstar, PvE gear is best for PvE content, and PvP gear is best for PvP content - as it should be. These two brackets of gear apparently fall into the good game design category, by your own standards.

My statement was not fallacious. It is based on the fact that there are two gear categories in Wildstar. Given that there are two types of gear in Wildstar, and that solo content gear would therefore fall into either a PvE or PvP category, then it is essentially an either/or proposition. It's either going to be superior or inferior (or equal) to the gear from group content. If the gear from solo content is better (or equal) to group content gear, it severely diminishes the incentive for pursuing group content, which goes against the ideals of mmo gameplay.

If you expected Wildstar to redefine this fundamental aspect of mmo gameplay, then I guess your disappointment is warranted. I can't say that I know anyone that had such expectations, but I didn't follow the game's development very closely. If your problem is that Wildstar lacks solo content and this third category of gear with a "solo" stat, then that's fair enough. But then you have to have the same problem with every other mmo that doesn't have this type of gear category, and as far as I know, there is no mmo with this kind of gear category.

And I still don't think you get to label it as "shitty" game design. If they made claims to provide this aspect of solo gear/content and failed to deliver, then it was dishonest on their part and you have right to be disappointed. It means they made "shitty" claims and false advertising, but it doesn't mean that their game has a "shitty" design.

Your analogy regarding the Olympics is irrelevant. I can just as easily cite the fact that the four sports which result in highest earnings overall are all team sports: baseball, basketball, soccer, and football (in that order). Neither statement adds anything to this discussion regarding mmo gaming rewards. The same goes for your analogy regarding soloists versus full orchestra. I wasn't previously claiming that one was better than the other (although if I had to argue I would certainly favor a full orchestra), and it doesn't apply to this discussion.

All the team sports you mention are pvp only. And yes, Carbine did make those claims, about having three types of gear. And yes, there is no MMO so far that has this gear category; it's been delayed for about ten years now. Carbine was the first to make those claims.

In a raid of twenty people, you're either in the top ten or the bottom ten. If you're in the top ten, then you're just waiting for your bottom people to earn up the average. If you're in the bottom ten, then you're hoping for your group to carry you. Neither one is indicative of your personal skill. And that's what's wrong.

[Nosdrone]

Oooh boy! The comments section on this article is rockin' right now...

http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/10...ldstars-grave/

Can't believe they felt the need to write an article about this, don't remember them doing this with SWTOR, ESO, or other games. /shrug

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Also, btw, language warning... but Wildstar raids are so hardcore, you can DPS them (and kill Ohmna) while using a steering wheel controller:
http://www.twitch.tv/sk_jono/c/5236409

[Deleted]

Love and hate are the same sort of thing, it shows you care, the real problem would be if everybody just walked off and never said a word! I see a big shining light at the end of the tunnel.

[Calfredd]

Also, btw, language warning... but Wildstar raids are so hardcore, you can DPS them (and kill Ohmna) while using a steering wheel controller:
http://www.twitch.tv/sk_jono/c/5236409

Reminds me of when I saw that video over someone beating Dark Souls 2 with a guitar controller. Fun times.

[Black Phillip]

Love and hate are the same sort of thing, it shows you care, the real problem would be if everybody just walked off and never said a word! I see a big shining light at the end of the tunnel.

Naw people just love a good train wreck. It's why when a celebrity goes crazy they are always in the news. Doesn't mean people actually give a damn about them.

[Deleted]

LoL that's just about right.....sounds like every game I'm not playing

[Deleted]

snip

This is so accurate it's scary.

SWTOR, Wildstar. Same shit.

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LoL that's just about right.....sounds like every game I'm not playing

Really? Cause it just sounds like SWTOR and Wildstar, to me.

[Deleted]

You might need to change the sig then.

would not fit them all in ^^

[Graeham]

We're seeing a lot of clever and deceptive marketing where recent MMO's are concerned. Both GW2 and Wildstar managed to lure me in because a lot of what they promised generally was pretty intriguing. The developers didn't manage to deliver, however - and so I ended up drifting away from both MMO's entirely and haven't bothered touching them since I made the decision to abandon them.

I think the issue would be resolved through more accountability. In some cases the developers spew outright lies right up until the game launches and only then do they turn around and admit that a particularly highly anticipated feature isn't going to make it into the game at all.

[Deleted]

We're seeing a lot of clever and deceptive marketing where recent MMO's are concerned. Both GW2 and Wildstar managed to lure me in because a lot of what they promised generally was pretty intriguing. The developers didn't manage to deliver, however - and so I ended up drifting away from both MMO's entirely and haven't bothered touching them since I made the decision to abandon them.

I think the issue would be resolved through more accountability. In some cases the developers spew outright lies right up until the game launches and only then do they turn around and admit that a particularly highly anticipated feature isn't going to make it into the game at all.

This is a perfect example why opinions are always personal, Wildstar maybe having a struggle ATM but according to new reports, GW2 is now the most active western MMO player wise.

[Deleted]

This is a perfect example why opinions are always personal, Wildstar maybe having a struggle ATM but according to new reports, GW2 is now the most active western MMO player wise.

LOL... Just search monthly most played games, you will see the same result everywhere, with league of legend on top, followed by dota 2, counter strike and wow, with wild star nowhere to be seen. Most active mmo? According to "new report"? Someone getting personal...

[Graeham]

This is a perfect example why opinions are always personal, Wildstar maybe having a struggle ATM but according to new reports, GW2 is now the most active western MMO player wise.

That doesn't change the fact that GW2's developers lied in their manifesto though. In all fairness GW2 is very much a 'pick up and play' MMO but just because a particular title boasts a huge number of fans it doesn't necessarily mean that it's the best thing on the market. For all we know it might simply be attracting the same crowd who wail about the expectation of having to pay a set fee each month.

[Post]

Oooh boy! The comments section on this article is rockin' right now...

http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/10...ldstars-grave/

Can't believe they felt the need to write an article about this, don't remember them doing this with SWTOR, ESO, or other games. /shrug

Is "Ask Massively" supposed to represent that site? Because that's what the title implies. That article seems really hostile, I don't read tons of video game opinion pieces or whatever but seeing shit like "It's one thing to deeply oppose a game's design, but if you take delight in watching major MMOs flounder, you don't really deserve this genre at all." seems a little I dunno, unprofessional? Is that kind of tone normal in these things?

[Tekkommo]

This is a perfect example why opinions are always personal, Wildstar maybe having a struggle ATM but according to new reports, GW2 is now the most active western MMO player wise.

Source please.

I'm not saying you're lying, as WoW will be back top once WoD is out.

But looking at things like Twitch, you're gonna need to back this statement up. Hope I wake up the Twitch haters with this.

But I do call bullshit because all you have to do is look at WoWs server list.

Oh and lol @ you for mentioning another game, after your oh so many posts of being against this.

[Lane]

This was the best response I read.

necropsie
21 hours ago

*snip*

So true. Those of us who have beta tested multiple MMOs know the "OH SHUT UP THIS IS ONLY BETA" excuse is hogwash since we've seen time and again bugs not get fixed between beta and live. Hence the followup in #3 "Bugs people reported YEARS AGO are still in the game".

"There are still weird people talking about things nobody wants to hear. So some of the fanboys evolves into white knights and starts defending the developers." <-- This has to be the most irritating part for me, personally. Especially since, again, it leads to "there are serious design flaws, game stopping bugs, exploits, bots, cheats." The people who see and try to discuss these issues early on are labeled haters and have to deal with the backlash of that until everyone else experiences it for themselves and comes to the same conclusions.

That doesn't change the fact that GW2's developers lied in their manifesto though. In all fairness GW2 is very much a 'pick up and play' MMO but just because a particular title boasts a huge number of fans it doesn't necessarily mean that it's the best thing on the market. For all we know it might simply be attracting the same crowd who wail about the expectation of having to pay a set fee each month.

OT, but agreed. I think it's also a matter of taste. Personally, I can't stand GW2's update model. I prefer meatier content on a minimum 6-8 week schedule, not little bits of stuff every couple of weeks. I also discovered through playing GW2 that I prefer traditional expansions with a large amount of content up front rather than it being cut up into bite size pieces and spaced out over the course of a year. I could go on, but wrong thread & forum. :P

[Deleted]

http://www.twitch.tv/drivenowhere/b/575044639 first good city raid ?...... Go go Exiles

[Enosh]

Oooh boy! The comments section on this article is rockin' right now...

http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/10...ldstars-grave/

Can't believe they felt the need to write an article about this, don't remember them doing this with SWTOR, ESO, or other games. /shrug

I'll admit, i'm quite happy with wildstar failing, not because I hate the game but more because it means some of the design decisions (40 mans, atunement grinds etc) are hopefully dead and buried with it

[Nosdrone]

This is a perfect example why opinions are always personal, Wildstar maybe having a struggle ATM but according to new reports, GW2 is now the most active western MMO player wise.

Source please.

[Punisher069]

Source please.

Woah now, you know asking for a source is toxic round these parts?! Yeah I can't find anything that says that about GW2. Actually the first results on the googles, is the quoted post.

[plantation]

I looked around, couldn't find anything to suggest that GW2 would be the "most active western MMO."