[Megathread] Wildstar - Now F2P

[Nosdrone]

Is the game free yet? What's taking so long?

[Marston]

Is the game free yet? What's taking so long?

They said this fall. So probably august at the earliest. The beta hasn't even started yet.

[Kelimbror]

What's taking so long?

Testing, redesign, you know...the same things that every game does when they go F2P.

[Arlee]

Is the game free yet? What's taking so long?

They aren't simply just slapping a cash shop on and pushing the no sub button. They are actually making substantial changes to the game and systems to address many issue they have had, as they should. It will take time.

They said it will convert this fall and we are nowhere near Fall yet, so it's a bit early to start waving the "ahmg why is it taking soooo long" banner

[RoninaThorstone]

If LFR ships as a "clone" of WoW setup, then i wouldn't like it much and i don't think it would work well in W*. I don't want a 25 man zergfest

A LFR tool has no bearing on the difficulty of the raid itself.

You could have a LFR tool that plops you into Yogg25 no lights with ilv213 gear and normalizes you to lv 80.

Difficulty is one thing.
Group finder tools are another.

[Lysah]

A LFR tool has no bearing on the difficulty of the raid itself.

You could have a LFR tool that plops you into Yogg25 no lights with ilv213 gear and normalizes you to lv 80.

Difficulty is one thing.
Group finder tools are another.

Agreed, but considering their purpose, they become almost synonymous. Group finders are bound to create the worst of the worst parties, which means the difficulty of the content has to correspond with that expectation. End result is that anyone who isn't a vegetable will sleep their way through the content because it has to be so trivial.

[RoninaThorstone]

Agreed, but considering their purpose, they become almost synonymous. Group finders are bound to create the worst of the worst parties, which means the difficulty of the content has to correspond with that expectation. End result is that anyone who isn't a vegetable will sleep their way through the content because it has to be so trivial.

Depends on how you structure your learning curve and how linear the progression is.

For example, you couldn't LFR a terribad party for titan extreme in FF14 patch 2.1 because the only people who could queue had beaten ifirit and garuda extreme.

[Lysah]

Depends on how you structure your learning curve and how linear the progression is.

For example, you couldn't LFR a terribad party for titan extreme in FF14 patch 2.1 because the only people who could queue had beaten ifirit and garuda extreme.

Interesting idea, but how do you do that for the very first raid? Apparently people in Wildstar are struggling to even enter the zone after a full year.

[RoninaThorstone]

Interesting idea, but how do you do that for the very first raid? Apparently people in Wildstar are struggling to even enter the zone after a full year.

FF14 introduces players to raid mechanics at lv 20 via "trials" and has their first full 8 man raid at lv 40 in "scenarios" (tutorials) so they ramp up raid experience throughout the leveling process.

[Acidbaron]

Interesting idea, but how do you do that for the very first raid? Apparently people in Wildstar are struggling to even enter the zone after a full year.

Struggling would be only due to population issues not due to barriers in the game currently as anything time consuming or difficult has been reduced or removed.

[Kelimbror]

Interesting idea, but how do you do that for the very first raid? Apparently people in Wildstar are struggling to even enter the zone after a full year.

The only reason anyone is struggling is because there aren't bodies to do the content with. Even manually forming a group, which most people loathe to do, is quite an arduous task given the low numbers of people present that a) are online and b) still need to do these things and c) are willing to do these things.

[RoninaThorstone]

manually forming a group, which most people loathe to do, is quite an arduous task

I feel like people who oppose group finders have romantisized or didn't experience the days of trying to manually form a group for Diremaul wings in vanilla WoW.

I would rather play a different game than spend 3-4 hours trying to form a group to play a game.

[Deleted]

Agreed, but considering their purpose, they become almost synonymous. Group finders are bound to create the worst of the worst parties, which means the difficulty of the content has to correspond with that expectation. End result is that anyone who isn't a vegetable will sleep their way through the content because it has to be so trivial.

Well, they will pay your raid content. You dont have to feel bad anymore as thousands pay your content without seeing it.

But hey, if you dont like to share raid content with others, there are surely games which offer a raid participation for a few only.

Or no, wait.. Wildstar was the only one left, right?

I am so happy that the organized raiders lose their last exclusive niche.

They destroyed Wildstar with their expectation to have exclusive raids for a few only. As the game never had a real chance to adress a broad audience due to the idea raiding should be like in mid 2000 MMORPGs.

[Kelimbror]

I feel like people who oppose group finders have romantisized or didn't experience the days of trying to manually form a group for Diremaul wings in vanilla WoW.

I would rather play a different game than spend 3-4 hours trying to form a group to play a game.

Even Marvel Heroes and D3 provide automated grouping and queue systems. If an ARPG sees the benefit of providing accessible and convenient grouping, but people playing MMOs can't see it....I just don't even.

[RoninaThorstone]

Even Marvel Heroes and D3 provide automated grouping and queue systems. If an ARPG sees the benefit of providing accessible and convenient grouping, but people playing MMOs can't see it....I just don't even.

^^^

And it's not like the holo-sim survival doesn't get hard after a certain amount of waves.

[Deleted]

If an ARPG sees the benefit of providing accessible and convenient grouping, but people playing MMOs can't see it....I just don't even.

Organized raiders that demand exclusivity are a special type of MMORPG player. They want exclusivity to feel better once they managed the content, as they often give up a part of their real life to acquire that success. They are infact the most toxic part of the players of any game i ever encountered, as they believe that noone else has the "right" to see their content. So they demand brick walls of any kind, as like low accessibility and high difficulty. They dont like group finders or easy content, as that would diminish their own game experience. While that just is plain stupid, as the wish for exclusivity never could lead to a successfull game concept, as not enough people would be adressed to even pay it.

Best example of today: Wildstar. Destroyed by the small subset of organized raiders that want everything for themself.

[Kelimbror]

*SNIP*

It is a problem. I won't go as far as I'd like in pointing fingers, because being on the other side of the fence I do realize the pride in accomplishing something 'difficult', but I don't personally see the value in preening over people while dancing on a mailbox like I did 6+ years ago.

I think the real problem comes not in wanting that sort of exclusion/challenege, but in wanting there to be a body of people playing the game who won't be able to do what you do. Compare the Eve mentality versus a hardcore raiding mentality. People in Eve find the same joy in that niche, incredibly competitive environment but their enjoyment of the environment isn't dependent on a bunch of people sitting in a capital city unable to even fly a ship out to space with them.

Unfortunately a niche raiding game just isn't profitable, so it's going to naturally breed that sort of unadulterated superiority complexes. There are plenty of people who would legitimately play a hardcore raiding only game where casual players couldn't even begin to step foot in, which would be ok. It's just never going to be developed.

[Acidbaron]

I feel like people who oppose group finders have romantisized or didn't experience the days of trying to manually form a group for Diremaul wings in vanilla WoW.

I would rather play a different game than spend 3-4 hours trying to form a group to play a game.

What can be countered by simply adding a tool to find people, automating the entire process with a single press has not led to improved quality in groups.

[RoninaThorstone]

What can be countered by simply adding a tool to find people, automating the entire process with a single press has not led to improved quality in groups.

Why not both?

WoW, FF14, and soon Firefall have a manual and automatic group/raid finder tabs.

[Deleted]

People in Eve find the same joy in that niche, incredibly competitive environment but their enjoyment of the environment isn't dependent on a bunch of people sitting in a capital city unable to even fly a ship out to space with them.

But eve is no pve mmorpg, as its entirely based on player versus player, and inherently competetive. Thats very different to a MMORPG whichs core gameplay is PVE, which is just not usefull to only adress competition and challenges.

Unfortunately a niche raiding game just isn't profitable, so it's going to naturally breed that sort of unadulterated superiority complexes. There are plenty of people who would legitimately play a hardcore raiding only game where casual players couldn't even begin to step foot in, which would be ok. It's just never going to be developed.

I think there would be a chance if it wasnt a AAA game, and if it was crowd funded. The problem about hard pve content is that it initially attracts more people than it would attract for a long time, as also those feel attracted who want to play harder content, but just cant. The prestige of hard gameplay attracts also those who would like to be better. But not anymore if they actually cant master it.