[Megathread] Wildstar - Now F2P

[I Push Buttons]

I was wondering also since you said the opposite in a next post, i know why they are playing heavy on dungeons since it's one of the more fun and easy to get into content.
When speaking of casual content people pointed out that EQ2 had "duo" raids and it seems timetravel is the same person who made part of those dungeons over at EQ2.

So who knows how those 'casual raid content' will look like.

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If 2014 news reports are the best you can come up with to validate current day changes you are late to the party.
All mmo's also lay off part of their staff 3 months post launch you may look at other mmo's and you'll notice this pattern.

I'm not going to dispute the game didn't do well but dead within a month of the launch is nothing more than an empty soundbyte. The game was developed for 3 years, 10 is not realistic the rise of a company does not imply day 1 development with 200+ staff members.

You're right they had 1 employee for those other six years.

And how is my comment an empty soundbite? The game made a disappointingly small amount of money its first quarter on the market and within six months its profits were down 80% from that already small amount...

I don't know where you went to business school but starting off weak and then having your profits drop 80% doesn't sound that successful, friend.

[Acidbaron]

You're right they had 1 employee for those other six years.

And how is my comment an empty soundbite? The game made a disappointingly small amount of money its first quarter on the market and within six months its profits were down 80% from that already small amount...

I don't know where you went to business school but starting off weak and then having your profits drop 80% doesn't sound that successful, friend.

That you said the game was 'dead in the water' while it has received despite sub-par reception and retention funding to continue to develop further, dead in the water for me means a warhammer AoR scenario where the funding gets screwed back to an absolute skeleton crew if you know the meaning of that term, if not it is to purely maintain and not build further on it.

I never said the game was successful or met their required marks, i'm merely disputing the 'dead in the water comment' since the project hasn't been abandoned.

[I Push Buttons]

That you said the game was 'dead in the water' while it has received despite sub-par reception and retention funding to continue to develop further, dead in the water for me means a warhammer AoR scenario where the funding gets screwed back to an absolute skeleton crew if you know the meaning of that term, if not it is to purely maintain and not build further on it.

I never said the game was successful or met their required marks, i'm merely disputing the 'dead in the water comment' since the project hasn't been abandoned.

You just quoted me as saying something I didn't say three different times and built an entire argument around the wording of that quote which you made up and I never said.

Stay classy.

[Acidbaron]

You are right you said dead within a month, not dead in the water. That doesn't change what you meant to say however or how i at least read it.

Instead of trying to make this personal you could've easily taken the time to point out what you actually meant instead by "dead within a month" if my understanding of that is so off

[I Push Buttons]

You are right you said dead within a month, not dead in the water. That doesn't change what you meant to say however or how i at least read it.

Instead of trying to make this personal you could've easily taken the time to point out what you actually meant instead by "dead within a month" if my understanding of that is so off

Well friend, clearly I don't mean literally "dead," as the video game Wildstar continues to exist. I think it was rather obvious "dead" was meant as a synonym of inactive.

In the future when I wish to describe actual dead things to you, I will make sure to clarify that they are "literally dead."

[Kelimbror]

*SNIP*

The problem is that you provide examples that aren't relative. Essentially apples and oranges. I also don't think that anyone is saying that having more people in and of itself is what creates higher skill. It's the resulting interaction with those people in the scheme of the design.

I can't say golf requires less skill than basketball which requires less skill than baseball anymore than I can say knitting requires less skill than poker which requires less skill than team skydiving. They are completely different skill sets, with different objectives, in different environments.

An accurate comparison would be looking at what adding players to golf, a solo game, and subsequently changing the rules to compensate does. Perhaps now the players have to throw balls in the air, then hit them mid air out of sand/drop ins. Maybe the person with the club has to be blindfolded and their partner has to verbally tell them where and how to hit it.

Your examples don't speak to the actual phenomenon unfortunately.

[Deleted]

I really don't see why some ppl have this hate for LFR, it doesn't affect them AT ALL.

Elitism is a very special kind of asshattery.

If raiding becomes mainstream, i will come back to the game. While blizzard completely went to the other extreme, raid or die, i would love a game which offers both. Accessible raids and compelling open world content.

[Kaganfindel]

The official Carbine response

CRB_Timetravel
We have not given up on you, and will be working on a new raid tier. However, I agree that it has taken much longer than we would prefer between raid tiers, and my apologies for that. It's been a pretty wild year, schedule-wise.

Dev speak for we don't give a shit ?

Dev speak for "we can't keep hosting the game without lots of new players, so the development focus has, of a necessity, been almost entirely on getting lots of new players." That doesn't mean they don't give a shit about giving you new raids; it means giving you new raids isn't an option until they can pay the bills. It doesn't matter how staunchly you support them or how grateful they are to you; if the game gets shut down, you get no new raids.

[Deleted]

Yes that was also my interpretation of his statement, I put the question on the end because it seems we all just see and read what we what want to see

[Gray_Matter]

You are right you said dead within a month, not dead in the water. That doesn't change what you meant to say however or how i at least read it.

Instead of trying to make this personal you could've easily taken the time to point out what you actually meant instead by "dead within a month" if my understanding of that is so off

You seem to be nitpicking. If I go to a club and it's mostly empty I would say to someone that it was dead. Has it closed down? Of course not. It's the same with WS. It was pretty dead and only picked up again now that the F2P announcement happened. It obviously hadn't shut down because we wouldn't be talking in this thread if it had.

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This is the attitude i dislike about 'casual' players, when i didn't have time for a tier in wrath, i bumped myself down to 10 man had a decent group of people and still cleared it all at our own speed. I never demanded the full 100% of the game to be catered to ol' me and i certainly didn't pull the personal 'offended' card out.

How about I put it this way to you. Most casual players don't care about exclusive content. They only complain when they don't have things to do. They get upset when their money is spent on content they they won't be able to do for whatever reason. That's why the attitude of people who raid seriously surprises me so much because if something is going to give, it's not going to be the casual content, it's going to be the high difficulty content. The only way that serious raiders will be able to see more of the content they want to see is if the game companies have enough income where it doesn't matter so much (e.g. WOW) or if the hard content is also re-purposed in some way to make it usable by the masses. It seems like Carbine is not in the position to use 1 and they don't seem to be doing no 2. That means very little high difficulty big group content.

[Kelimbror]

we also won't be tuning those raids "up" to the new tier levels as new content arrives. This means that they will naturally become easier over time--even though we don't have any plans to easy-ify any of the encounters or mechanics.

Hopefully that puts people pulling a chicken little on 'making Wildstar a facebook' game or other kneejerk fears regarding raid content a large glass of you know what. With that being said, I'm still all for an LFR in Wildstar. The content is just way too fun to cater to ~3% of players.

[Fkiolaris]

I really don't see why some ppl have this hate for LFR, it doesn't affect them AT ALL.

Actually, as a casual I find that LFR affects me a lot in a negative way. I said so pre-release of Wildstar in this same thread. LFR is now considered the new end-game content of casuals and a) I much prefer hard five mans to hold that role and b) because it technically is a raid, it can mess with the "proper" raids and related systems/progression if they are not separated 100% and that can lead to all sorts of BS regarding tuning/rewards etc (see current LFR in WoW as an example).

[Gray_Matter]

Actually, as a casual I find that LFR affects me a lot in a negative way. I said so pre-release of Wildstar in this same thread. LFR is now considered the new end-game content of casuals and a) I much prefer hard five mans to hold that role and b) because it technically is a raid, it can mess with the "proper" raids and related systems/progression if they are not separated 100% and that can lead to all sorts of BS regarding tuning/rewards etc (see current LFR in WoW as an example).

Those are implementation issues, not conceptual issues. I don't like LFR at all. It's pretty much a waste of time. However, I would love LFR type grouping on flex level of difficulty. Probably with less people. Preferably a max of 10.

I also used to crawl dungeons. They were my life blood. I don't think that adding LFR type of functionality should stop the release of dungeons. There needs to be a reason to run dungeons even if you are playing the "LFR" content. You should have to do them but doing them should be beneficial.

[RoninaThorstone]

Actually, as a casual I find that LFR affects me a lot in a negative way. I said so pre-release of Wildstar in this same thread. LFR is now considered the new end-game content of casuals and a) I much prefer hard five mans to hold that role and b) because it technically is a raid, it can mess with the "proper" raids and related systems/progression if they are not separated 100% and that can lead to all sorts of BS regarding tuning/rewards etc (see current LFR in WoW as an example).

This is a World of Warcraft problem, not a LFR/LFG system problem.

[Deleted]

This is a World of Warcraft problem, not a LFR/LFG system problem.

You can actually create a LFR / LFG with engaging content. And not with a theater mode as like in WoW only.

[RoninaThorstone]

You can actually create a LFR / LFG with engaging content. And not with a theater mode as like in WoW only.

Yep.

+10char

[lolstorm]

Not sure if I am even allowed to ask this here (if I am not mods, please delete this post), but has anyone bought the Beastly addon and is willing to share it? I can only find old versions on the interwebz.

[Deleted]

Not sure if I am even allowed to ask this here (if I am not mods, please delete this post), but has anyone bought the Beastly addon and is willing to share it? I can only find old versions on the interwebz.

The game changed the addon never...don't waste money or even use, questing is a lot more streamlined now

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Man behind the great music https://jeffkurtenacker.wordpress.com/music/

[Acidbaron]

This is a World of Warcraft problem, not a LFR/LFG system problem.

I don't find this to be true, an automatic paired system cannot be held to the same level of coordination required and thus difficulty of that of a pre-made group.
Therefor content has to be made easier there is no other way around.

But videos only show you that much of raid fights in wildstar i'm going to take the time to lay out two fights, in detail to show you the problem with simply throwing a bunch of people together, knowing we must respect they do not have access to voice coms, they did not pre-plan and there is no clear leader that can decide the course of action as these are 20 random people thrown together. This is all from memory so there might be a small error in there but the big lines will be right since i spend plenty of time breaking my head over tactics back then.

Beyond coordination, since i know you didn't raid in wildstar the first 'mini-boss' goes at follows, he builds up an increased damage stack that not only increases his damage done to the tank but also increases his puling aoe. The Room you fight in is circular with an object in the middle so you need to drag him around, on Opposites sides of each other you have two structures you can pull the boss under and a bit further away you have a panel one for each. You need to activate these things to stun and clear the stacks of the boss, activating that also does damage to the raid and anyone standing in this.

Sounds easy enough right? You are right now the second half, during the fight he constantly drops mushrooms that when popped do significant aoe damage also scaled with his buff, these mushrooms are not popped by just people running over them they are popped by damaging telegraphs and they do get popped since you can't control it all that well. After popping them they turn into a significant sized telegraph.

These shrooms can appear under the construct you need to drop him under as they always appear with 4 at once around the boss. Do you see random people doing this? Perhaps i do not however since it requires a few pulls to get this down.


First actual boss you probably know the frog, this does not require that much coordination raid wide only the tanks need to coordinate a bit. A decent preparation goes a long way in speeding up the fight but you can kill this boss with a large chunk of the raid dead, this is done intentionally.

What brings me to Kuralak.

two phase fight, first phase beyond the beams running all over the place. Phase 1 lasts till around 75%, roughly every 50 seconds the boss blinds everyone. Additional telegraphs appear that rotate around the four inner pillars. The room again a circular room, Four inner pillars on N,S,W,E, four other pillars on NE,NW,SE,SW.

On the blind the boss creates a circle of bad in the middle, all pillars now have rotating crosses around them. The circle of bad grows rapidly. Outside the outer circle the area now does damage over time on you, to stop the circle from expanding and making her port back to the center you need to interrupt her behind one of the four pillars. So you need to send out four people and they all need to go to a different pillar quickly. Otherwise you wipe.

That's the easy part of the fight, phase two this no longer happens what happens now is she infects a person. This person does increased damage, this person is random. every so often she casts a spell and turns this person into an egg, this person needs to be interrupted. Fun fact: the same person cannot interrupt another ever or they die, take note combat resurrection does not exist in this game. The fight when not out gearing it does not allow you to lose a person especially not early on in the second phase. Also interrupts in Wildstar are AoE's, either around them or in a frontal cone, rectangle and so on. So positioning is also key.

Now let's move on, As you know every time a person needs to be interrupted that person can't interrupt again and you need more people.
So first cast, 1 interrupt, second 2, third 4, fourth, 8. 5, 16 but you generally either kill her or she kills you before the fifth cast.

You might think why not just let some people die you can still kill her with the damage of the others buffed? correct, if it wasn't so that when a person dies the infection spreads to another random person and one extra. So you getting that means every cast she does you need more interrupts.

That is not all, since there is plenty of stuff around that can kill you, aoe's, room wide aoes, aoes exploding from pillars and than some. But i'm pointing out purely the aspect of the fight that requires, pre-planning and coordination.


And again LFR is made for people who don't want to organize otherwise they would be in a guild. They don't want to spend hours wiping on the same encounter either, since again the lack time to be committed prevents them from being in a guild also.



Now this is a wall of text and if you managed to read through all of it congrats, but if you say this can be done with 19 other random people without any pre-planning or voice coms. I want you to tell me how as otherwise i cannot accept just like that that a group of random people can do this. Not because i'm an arrogant elitists snob since i don't even raid on that level anymore but simply because i cannot see this practically being done and i also want to realize this is the first floor of Genetic archives, the 'easy floor' of Genetic archives.

So can we please agree that we cannot simply let Carbine slap a LFR module even if they split the raid up per boss and expect it to work without them taking the heavy hammer of nerf and start changing the content so it matches an easier difficulty for lfr.

[RoninaThorstone]

if you say this can be done with 19 other random people without any pre-planning or voice coms. I want you to tell me how

With in-game voip and designing with the expectation that those 20 random people talk and plan out the fight before they engage it.